Panquinone - Liquid Triquinoyl/Quinone Mix For Lab/R&D

[burtlancast]

@dannibo Isn't ClO2 the same thing as Jim Humble's Miracle Mineral Solution? If so, be very careful with this. I personally tried it orally a few years ago per directions at the time, and I won't ever do it again.

What symptoms did you get?
I've used it a dozen times already and it always had a positive effect on my infection.

 

[Texon]

What symptoms did you get?
I've used it a dozen times already and it always had a positive effect on my infection.

I never did figure it out. The only thing I can think of is that I was somehow sensitive to the chlorine. I have never been able to use mag chloride spray in quantity topically or for more than a day or two, but there are so many minerals in it, who knows. Also, I am very sensitive to lots of supplements, and typically have to take less than the label doses, if at all. Minerals seem especially troublesome, and I have always wondered if it was some sort of kidney issue that has eluded diagnosis. I never have edema or anything else that might make someone suspect kidney involvement (GFR is perfect, etc). I took a citrus flavored effervescent mag citrate powder one time years ago that had me hyperventilating all night and in the neighborhood ER the next day. They said I was dehydrated and put me on Ringers IV drip, diagnosed "malaise", and that was the end of that. If anyone who sees this has any ideas, I would love to hear them...

 

[jaakkima]

I think it can, that is why Ray said in an email that no more than a few mcg daily should be used. The ROS is what can kill a tumor and the tumor does everything possible to surround itself with antioxidants like NAC to prevent the ROS from doing the damage.

So if one had cancer and were trying to treat that, would a much higher dose be optimal for it?

 

[haidut]

So if one had cancer and were trying to treat that, would a much higher dose be optimal for it?

It's in the post you quoted, did you not see that? Again, Ray said no more than a few (<5) micrograms (mcg) should be used.

 

[Epistrophy]

Has everyone been using topically or oral route? Will the yellow stain go away?

 

[Obi-wan]

Wow, I can't believe this has not gotten more attention. My first post by the way. I have been studying this forum for months. My rat was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer back in Nov. 2016. Initial PSA was 12,800. That number is not a mistake. Rat was given Firmagon to block LH and FSH and was told to get comfortable. The rat lived and the latest PSA is now 40. Rat has been doing many supplements and diet recommendations on this forum. Rat still gets the Firmagon injections every 30 days. Rats age is 60 years old. When the rat used to sneeze the rat could smell the Lactic acid in a closed environment like a car. Now the rat breathes with a very clear nose indicating carbon dioxide which is an indicator of proper mitochondrial respiratory function which the rat has ALL DAY long with 2-3 oral drops of Panquinone. Rat has also experimented with Oxidal but noticed the clear nose breathing symptom was much shorter. Rat also enjoys Kuinone, Lapodin, Energin, Retinil, EstroBan, Progestene, and Mittolipin. Rat continues to be educated by this Forum and the Ray Peat website. Rat enjoys the humor and banter that he has read. I think my Rat is very addicted to this Forum and always wants to read more. Rat has gone so far as to copy and paste posts of interest on word and goes back and rereads and highlights them. Rat has been thinking about posting for a long time and thought this supplement deserved the post. Nice to know all of you!

 

[haidut]

Wow, I can't believe this has not gotten more attention. My first post by the way. I have been studying this forum for months. My rat was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer back in Nov. 2016. Initial PSA was 12,800. That number is not a mistake. Rat was given Firmagon to block LH and FSH and was told to get comfortable. The rat lived and the latest PSA is now 40. Rat has been doing many supplements and diet recommendations on this forum. Rat still gets the Firmagon injections every 30 days. Rats age is 60 years old. When the rat used to sneeze the rat could smell the Lactic acid in a closed environment like a car. Now the rat breathes with a very clear nose indicating carbon dioxide which is an indicator of proper mitochondrial respiratory function which the rat has ALL DAY long with 2-3 oral drops of Panquinone. Rat has also experimented with Oxidal but noticed the clear nose breathing symptom was much shorter. Rat also enjoys Kuinone, Lapodin, Energin, Retinil, EstroBan, Progestene, and Mittolipin. Rat continues to be educated by this Forum and the Ray Peat website. Rat enjoys the humor and banter that he has read. I think my Rat is very addicted to this Forum and always wants to read more. Rat has gone so far as to copy and paste posts of interest on word and goes back and rereads and highlights them. Rat has been thinking about posting for a long time and thought this supplement deserved the post. Nice to know all of you!

Amazing, thanks for sharing! Just as a heads up, the formula will be enhanced in a few months by including the plain benzoquinone and napthoquinone which Koch considered great additions to the ethylenedione as per this thread (which I strongly recommend for reading).
Dr. William Frederich Koch USA/Brazil, Drs. Erich & Dieter Reinstorff, Germany - Continued Research

 

[Koveras]

Amazing, thanks for sharing! Just as a heads up, the formula will be enhanced in a few months by including the plain benzoquinone and napthoquinone which Koch considered great additions to the ethylenedione as per this thread (which I strongly recommend for reading).
Dr. William Frederich Koch USA/Brazil, Drs. Erich & Dieter Reinstorff, Germany - Continued Research

Is this one that will move over to methyl myristate?

 

[Obi-wan]

Actually now that I had time to think about it the smell after a sneeze was Nitric Oxide which Ray stated can be identified as a smell.

 

[Philomath]

In reading all the posts from Cliff Myles about Koch and glyoxylide, I couldn't help but notice the repeated mentioning of Kochs cancer treatment protocol requiring veganism and fasting -
"The Koch Treatment does not consist entirely of Glyoxylide but also includes a rigorous diet which excludes all foods which contribute to toxicity or which contain oxygen inhibitors, such as meats, fish, dairy products and eggs, as well as restrictions as on beans, lentils, coffee, alcohol and tomatoes. Initially, only distilled water is permitted as a “fast” and daily enemas are prescribed."

Will Panquinones effects be diminished if someone is following Peats high animal protein (egg/dairy/liver) diet?

 

[burtlancast]

Also, I am very sensitive to lots of supplements, and typically have to take less than the label doses, if at all. Minerals seem especially troublesome, and I have always wondered if it was some sort of kidney issue that has eluded diagnosis. I never have edema or anything else that might make someone suspect kidney involvement (GFR is perfect, etc). I took a citrus flavored effervescent mag citrate powder one time years ago that had me hyperventilating all night and in the neighborhood ER the next day. They said I was dehydrated and put me on Ringers IV drip, diagnosed "malaise", and that was the end of that. If anyone who sees this has any ideas, I would love to hear them...

I'm just posting this in case you didn't come across it yet, but member MITO has warned people about the citrate in magnesium citrate pulling calcium from the body and potentially exhacerbating kidney stones and messing with ceruloplasmin.
Magnesium Citrate - Caution

"Ray has cautioned about magnesium citrate supplements.
"Citric acid itself causes you to lose calcium in your urine. Lactate is another popular supplement. All of those have their anti-calcification effects, causing you to lose calcium or misplace it." KMUD: Hair Loss, Inflammation and Osteoporosis (2012)

Magnesium citrate may interfere with ceurloplasmin production.
Ceruloplasmin is a plasma protein, which oxidizes ferrous ions in a catalytic manner. It is considered to function as a ferroxidase in vivo. Citrate was found to inhibit the reaction. On the mechanism of citrate inhibition of ceruloplasmin ferroxidase activity. - PubMed - NCBI

Ceruloplasmin is the major copper-carrying protein in the blood and plays an active role in the metabolism of iron. Consumer Education Research on Magnesium Issues"

 

[Obi-wan]

Panquinone seems to be very synergistic with MitoLipin but the Rat does not enjoy coffee/caffeine while using these two products. Any thoughts @haidut? Also your inputs on the @Philomath post above? Rat is now doing 8 drops of Panquinone in the am and 10 drops of MitoLipin 3 to 4 times a day. Panquinone is sublingual and MitoLipin is topical. Thanks.

 

[Philomath]

In reading all the posts from Cliff Myles about Koch and glyoxylide, I couldn't help but notice the repeated mentioning of Kochs cancer treatment protocol requiring veganism and fasting -
"The Koch Treatment does not consist entirely of Glyoxylide but also includes a rigorous diet which excludes all foods which contribute to toxicity or which contain oxygen inhibitors, such as meats, fish, dairy products and eggs, as well as restrictions as on beans, lentils, coffee, alcohol and tomatoes. Initially, only distilled water is permitted as a “fast” and daily enemas are prescribed."

Will Panquinones effects be diminished if someone is following Peats high animal protein (egg/dairy/liver) diet?

To add to the above concern, and hopefully not hijack the thread, note the following from "Koch":


"The most widespread and dangerous disruptive factor accordeing to Koch is the development by alien amino particle displacement of the oxygen atom of the
C = O bond and converting introduced nitrogen to C = N-N. This highly toxic azomethine group is particularly stable and can be reconverted only through the use of more powerful catalysts with higher redox potential. Such substances were found by Koch in para-benzoquinone and glyoxal and derivatives thereof. The technically, very complicated production of these preparations were carried out by Fa. Roedler in 6521 Florsheim (Germany). Their successful application depends on instruction and fundamentals on the part of the practitioner, and willingness for the patient to go on a vegan diet in advance. Since the presence of animal protein the body, even in trace amounts, nullifies the molecular therapeutic effect, the patient must abstain from consuming meat, fish, eggs and milk in any form.

The protein requirements in (Koch’s therapy) can only be supplied with plant products. Physiologically this is less problematic when we consider that each leaf, each grain, paticularly legumes (soy), almonds, nuts and mushrooms are protein carriers, also, that the actual protein requirements of an adult with an otherwise high-quality, vitality-rich diet is far below the requirements of an outdated, outmoded Nutrition level.

For Koch, the most widespread and dangerous disruptive factor of energy balance is overloading with nitrogen - rising from amino acids or alkylating agents, resulting in the displacement of the oxygen atom from the bond > C = 0 through N and the change to > C = N -C--. These non-physiological "azomethines" are highly toxic, and, unlike most free radicals stable and durable. They are deleterious in their purpose to the mentioned enzyme blockages and other dysregulation.

Prerequisite for the optimal effect of molecular therapy is the elimination of the main sources of toxic compounds. This is only possible by switching to a diet that dispenses with any kind of animal protein at least 3-6 months.

This corresponds exactly with the recommended protein restriction in the treatment of medical conditions as "hyperproteinemia" by Wendt, described by him, and "hypoporopathy" [lowered permeability of capillary membranes due to thickening](18-20). We call this form of vegetarianism as "Vegan food". Not only meat, sausage, fish and all marine animals, but also milk and all dairy products such as buttermilk, yogurt, cottage cheese and cheese of any kind and eggs.

It has been proven and exemplified often by supporters of veganism for decades that such a diet can be consumed by people of all ages on a permanent basis.

It prevents iron deficiency by eating leafy vegetables, fruits and whole grains, containing all the vitamins and trace elements, even the frequently cited B12 deficiency can be compensated by parsley and other herbs, as well as a full intestinal flora. Anyone, but at least lacto-vegetarians nourished by vegan principles, are freed through the benefits of the orthomolecularity of the resulting endemic acidification as an expression of the acid-base dysfunction, which in turn has to be considered as cause and regulator of many deposition and inflammatory diseases (anti -acid-Diet). Acidosis descends with the removal of pathogenic tissue and at the same time their reciprocally proportional, cancer-beneficial alkalosis of the blood [21].

In hyperproteinemia, enteral incurred co-carcinogens are always present, detectable in urine and blood as decay products indole, urorosein, cadaverine and putrescine which are thereby reduced. Some components of "whole foods", for example vitamin C, glutathione, selenium etc. are defined directly as "free radical scavengers".

During and after Koch molecular therapy, animal protein must not be given for a period of several months in any form, - no meat, no fish, no dairy products and eggs. The protein requirements must be met during this time exclusively by vegetable protein: whole grains, legumes, nuts, almonds, soy products, also glidine (grain protein), (chewed nuts and almonds are digested insufficiently and the use of nut and almond butters is recommended). The reason for this drastic ban is that KOCH indicates that animal protein (postmortem or extracorporeally) forms toxic amines rapidly (which also arises in a dysbacterial intestinal flora milieu). These amines cause and maintain the blockade of the carbonyl groups in the cancer tissue, their removal is the goal of Koch's therapy. Any food tha is different from that described here is not recommended.

Above and beyond it’s therapeutic benefits, vegetarianism, as well as veganism, have indefinite broad-based economic, ecological and economic advantages over conventional economic and supply systems by reducing the need for extensive forage crops, the preservation of biological balance and the direct delivery to humanity with vegetables, grains and fruit. There is sufficient evidence of this in the form of experience in regionally limited areas."

Dr. Peat is very familiar with Koch's work, why has he not mentioned the "toxic Amines / azomethines" or the dangers of Nitrogen based animal protein in his work?

I guess this could also be a reason to take MORE panquinone or lopodin

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Wow, I can't believe this has not gotten more attention. My first post by the way. I have been studying this forum for months. My rat was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer back in Nov. 2016. Initial PSA was 12,800. That number is not a mistake. Rat was given Firmagon to block LH and FSH and was told to get comfortable. The rat lived and the latest PSA is now 40. Rat has been doing many supplements and diet recommendations on this forum. Rat still gets the Firmagon injections every 30 days. Rats age is 60 years old. When the rat used to sneeze the rat could smell the Lactic acid in a closed environment like a car. Now the rat breathes with a very clear nose indicating carbon dioxide which is an indicator of proper mitochondrial respiratory function which the rat has ALL DAY long with 2-3 oral drops of Panquinone. Rat has also experimented with Oxidal but noticed the clear nose breathing symptom was much shorter. Rat also enjoys Kuinone, Lapodin, Energin, Retinil, EstroBan, Progestene, and Mittolipin. Rat continues to be educated by this Forum and the Ray Peat website. Rat enjoys the humor and banter that he has read. I think my Rat is very addicted to this Forum and always wants to read more. Rat has gone so far as to copy and paste posts of interest on word and goes back and rereads and highlights them. Rat has been thinking about posting for a long time and thought this supplement deserved the post. Nice to know all of you!

Congratulations for beating the big C. What does NO smell like? Can other people smell it on your breath?

 

[Obi-wan]

Hard to describe. I could only smell it when I sneezed in a closed environment like a car. Smelled really obnoxious and funky!

 

[Drareg]

To add to the above concern, and hopefully not hijack the thread, note the following from "Koch":


"The most widespread and dangerous disruptive factor accordeing to Koch is the development by alien amino particle displacement of the oxygen atom of the
C = O bond and converting introduced nitrogen to C = N-N. This highly toxic azomethine group is particularly stable and can be reconverted only through the use of more powerful catalysts with higher redox potential. Such substances were found by Koch in para-benzoquinone and glyoxal and derivatives thereof. The technically, very complicated production of these preparations were carried out by Fa. Roedler in 6521 Florsheim (Germany). Their successful application depends on instruction and fundamentals on the part of the practitioner, and willingness for the patient to go on a vegan diet in advance. Since the presence of animal protein the body, even in trace amounts, nullifies the molecular therapeutic effect, the patient must abstain from consuming meat, fish, eggs and milk in any form.

The protein requirements in (Koch’s therapy) can only be supplied with plant products. Physiologically this is less problematic when we consider that each leaf, each grain, paticularly legumes (soy), almonds, nuts and mushrooms are protein carriers, also, that the actual protein requirements of an adult with an otherwise high-quality, vitality-rich diet is far below the requirements of an outdated, outmoded Nutrition level.

For Koch, the most widespread and dangerous disruptive factor of energy balance is overloading with nitrogen - rising from amino acids or alkylating agents, resulting in the displacement of the oxygen atom from the bond > C = 0 through N and the change to > C = N -C--. These non-physiological "azomethines" are highly toxic, and, unlike most free radicals stable and durable. They are deleterious in their purpose to the mentioned enzyme blockages and other dysregulation.

Prerequisite for the optimal effect of molecular therapy is the elimination of the main sources of toxic compounds. This is only possible by switching to a diet that dispenses with any kind of animal protein at least 3-6 months.

This corresponds exactly with the recommended protein restriction in the treatment of medical conditions as "hyperproteinemia" by Wendt, described by him, and "hypoporopathy" [lowered permeability of capillary membranes due to thickening](18-20). We call this form of vegetarianism as "Vegan food". Not only meat, sausage, fish and all marine animals, but also milk and all dairy products such as buttermilk, yogurt, cottage cheese and cheese of any kind and eggs.

It has been proven and exemplified often by supporters of veganism for decades that such a diet can be consumed by people of all ages on a permanent basis.

It prevents iron deficiency by eating leafy vegetables, fruits and whole grains, containing all the vitamins and trace elements, even the frequently cited B12 deficiency can be compensated by parsley and other herbs, as well as a full intestinal flora. Anyone, but at least lacto-vegetarians nourished by vegan principles, are freed through the benefits of the orthomolecularity of the resulting endemic acidification as an expression of the acid-base dysfunction, which in turn has to be considered as cause and regulator of many deposition and inflammatory diseases (anti -acid-Diet). Acidosis descends with the removal of pathogenic tissue and at the same time their reciprocally proportional, cancer-beneficial alkalosis of the blood [21].

In hyperproteinemia, enteral incurred co-carcinogens are always present, detectable in urine and blood as decay products indole, urorosein, cadaverine and putrescine which are thereby reduced. Some components of "whole foods", for example vitamin C, glutathione, selenium etc. are defined directly as "free radical scavengers".

During and after Koch molecular therapy, animal protein must not be given for a period of several months in any form, - no meat, no fish, no dairy products and eggs. The protein requirements must be met during this time exclusively by vegetable protein: whole grains, legumes, nuts, almonds, soy products, also glidine (grain protein), (chewed nuts and almonds are digested insufficiently and the use of nut and almond butters is recommended). The reason for this drastic ban is that KOCH indicates that animal protein (postmortem or extracorporeally) forms toxic amines rapidly (which also arises in a dysbacterial intestinal flora milieu). These amines cause and maintain the blockade of the carbonyl groups in the cancer tissue, their removal is the goal of Koch's therapy. Any food tha is different from that described here is not recommended.

Above and beyond it’s therapeutic benefits, vegetarianism, as well as veganism, have indefinite broad-based economic, ecological and economic advantages over conventional economic and supply systems by reducing the need for extensive forage crops, the preservation of biological balance and the direct delivery to humanity with vegetables, grains and fruit. There is sufficient evidence of this in the form of experience in regionally limited areas."

Dr. Peat is very familiar with Koch's work, why has he not mentioned the "toxic Amines / azomethines" or the dangers of Nitrogen based animal protein in his work?

I guess this could also be a reason to take MORE panquinone or lopodin

He does mention amines in many of his articles,he discusses aged meat in depth for example.
He also doesn't recommend animal protein as the ideal source available in contemporary times.

 

[Drareg]

Wow, I can't believe this has not gotten more attention. My first post by the way. I have been studying this forum for months. My rat was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer back in Nov. 2016. Initial PSA was 12,800. That number is not a mistake. Rat was given Firmagon to block LH and FSH and was told to get comfortable. The rat lived and the latest PSA is now 40. Rat has been doing many supplements and diet recommendations on this forum. Rat still gets the Firmagon injections every 30 days. Rats age is 60 years old. When the rat used to sneeze the rat could smell the Lactic acid in a closed environment like a car. Now the rat breathes with a very clear nose indicating carbon dioxide which is an indicator of proper mitochondrial respiratory function which the rat has ALL DAY long with 2-3 oral drops of Panquinone. Rat has also experimented with Oxidal but noticed the clear nose breathing symptom was much shorter. Rat also enjoys Kuinone, Lapodin, Energin, Retinil, EstroBan, Progestene, and Mittolipin. Rat continues to be educated by this Forum and the Ray Peat website. Rat enjoys the humor and banter that he has read. I think my Rat is very addicted to this Forum and always wants to read more. Rat has gone so far as to copy and paste posts of interest on word and goes back and rereads and highlights them. Rat has been thinking about posting for a long time and thought this supplement deserved the post. Nice to know all of you!

Great to hear you are doing better.

The firmagon is successful at taking PSA down and doing it quick,the side effects are castration of sort,the PSA can also be raised from other issues as I'm sure your aware by now.
When can you stop the firmagon?

 

[Philomath]

He does mention amines in many of his articles,he discusses aged meat in depth for example.
He also doesn't recommend animal protein as the ideal source available in contemporary times.

The Koch transcript specifically mentions animal protein, including milk, cheese and eggs as a source of the detrimental amines. Per his email, Dr. Peat drinks nearly a gallon of milk a day. This would be highly problematic according to Koch.

 

[Drareg]

The Koch transcript specifically mentions animal protein, including milk, cheese and eggs as a source of the detrimental amines. Per his email, Dr. Peat drinks nearly a gallon of milk a day. This would be highly problematic according to Koch.

I meant muscle meats,wasn't specific in my post.
I think Peat mentioned fresher meats have less of a problem with amines,it's aged meats being more of an issue. He mentioned the calcium in cheese offsets the aging of cheese.

I think the molecular therapy of Koch can't be subtly put to the side which seems to be what is being done by fanatic vegans to imply it was the vegan diet imo.

 

[Obi-wan]

Great to hear you are doing better.

The firmagon is successful at taking PSA down and doing it quick,the side effects are castration of sort,the PSA can also be raised from other issues as I'm sure your aware by now.
When can you stop the firmagon?

My PSA has been around 40 for the last 4 months. I would like to stop the Firmagon but somehow feel that the PSA should be lower before I do. The medical community feels that prostate cancer is fueled by testosterone. So by blocking FSH and LH ( androgen deprivation) I basically did not die. I went from 204 pounds to 158 pounds in 6 months and last November was bedridden and on OxyContin. Now I weigh 210 pounds (no Oxy) and go to the gym and have actually increased muscle size and strength, and have very good energy. I would call the last couple of years the perfect storm. I was taking cod liver oil, doing flax seed oil with cottage cheese, trying arginine, DIM, to much DHEA, drinking alcohol, following Dr. Mercola's advice on diet, fasting then doing strenuous workouts in the Gym. Not taking Vit E or B vitamins, etc. After the Lord gave me a second chance I found Ray Peat and this Forum. stopped everything that I was doing before and follow this thought: Cancer Metabolism = Stress Metabolism= a respiratory defect in the mitochondria=a defect in the electron transport chain by using supplements like Kuinone, Lapodin, Energin, Retinil, EstroBan, Progestene, Panquinone and Mittolipin. Also Aspirin, Niacinamide, B1. Also following a Peaty diet with OJ, Milk, etc. When I had a bone scan done last Nov. my whole upper torso was lite up with advanced prostate cancer, ribs, shoulders, pelvis. I could hardly move. Now I feel a lot better. Doc wants to do another bone scan. I said no way due to the ion radiation and the estrogen storm that would follow. Believe me I would like to stop the shots and get on with my life!