Oysters, copper, graying and allergies

sweetpeat

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Chronic consumption of liver could manifest into vitamin A toxicity symptoms or low histamine due to massive copper content. Chronically high zinc intake via oysters or supplements can lead to copper deficiency and iron deficiency due to blocking absorption (and copper deficiency leading to iron deficient like symptoms). Too much of both and lack of iron can lead to iron deficiency.

This is why its good to get normal amounts of vital minerals daily and only consume liver and/or oysters if you know for a fact that zinc or copper is low or otherwise consume them very rarely. Normal amounts is 15-30mg zinc daily, 1-3mg copper daily, and 20mg+ iron daily. Assuming the status of your metals is already good this is the best way long-term to make sure you get enough of each but not too much of any.

Red meats and meat in general has decent amount of most trace minerals except copper while not having very high amounts of anything. This is ideal long-term.
Thank you for this. Explains why I struggle with maintaining adequate mineral status, especially iron. According to cronometer, I was getting enough. But according to these guidelines, I'm not.
 

redsun

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Thank you for this. Explains why I struggle with maintaining adequate mineral status, especially iron. According to cronometer, I was getting enough. But according to these guidelines, I'm not.

Well this is enough to maintain. As I posted before to someone else, the amount of iron you need to get may seem high but considering how many absorption inhibitors there are and that iron absorption is already so low as it is, its necessary to consume. Now to actually raise iron levels (if thats what you are trying to achieve) you need to consume very large amounts of iron or less iron from heme-iron supplements or food without any calcium in the meal.

Foods include organs like liver, spleen, kidney, red meat, etc..

There are a few heme-iron supplements as well you can find where the heme iron is derived from the animal's blood.
 

Dr. B

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Well this is enough to maintain. As I posted before to someone else, the amount of iron you need to get may seem high but considering how many absorption inhibitors there are and that iron absorption is already so low as it is, its necessary to consume. Now to actually raise iron levels (if thats what you are trying to achieve) you need to consume very large amounts of iron or less iron from heme-iron supplements or food without any calcium in the meal.

Foods include organs like liver, spleen, kidney, red meat, etc..

There are a few heme-iron supplements as well you can find where the heme iron is derived from the animal's blood.
ancestral supps offers 500mg freeze dried bovine blood capsules
 

Motif

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Well this is enough to maintain. As I posted before to someone else, the amount of iron you need to get may seem high but considering how many absorption inhibitors there are and that iron absorption is already so low as it is, its necessary to consume. Now to actually raise iron levels (if thats what you are trying to achieve) you need to consume very large amounts of iron or less iron from heme-iron supplements or food without any calcium in the meal.

Foods include organs like liver, spleen, kidney, red meat, etc..

There are a few heme-iron supplements as well you can find where the heme iron is derived from the animal's blood.

@reds
Well this is enough to maintain. As I posted before to someone else, the amount of iron you need to get may seem high but considering how many absorption inhibitors there are and that iron absorption is already so low as it is, its necessary to consume. Now to actually raise iron levels (if thats what you are trying to achieve) you need to consume very large amounts of iron or less iron from heme-iron supplements or food without any calcium in the meal.

Foods include organs like liver, spleen, kidney, red meat, etc..

There are a few heme-iron supplements as well you can find where the heme iron is derived from the animal's blood.
@redsun

How much zinc daily is ok to not block copper and does it matter if it comes from food or supplements?

Lets say I would take 3-4 mg zinc daily if I’m not sure if I hitted the rda.
 

redsun

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@reds

@redsun

How much zinc daily is ok to not block copper and does it matter if it comes from food or supplements?

Lets say I would take 3-4 mg zinc daily if I’m not sure if I hitted the rda.
Food zinc is not going to block copper like zinc supplements. Oysters would though. Taking a small amount of zinc shouldnt be too bad while you try to raise copper levels.
 

Motif

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Food zinc is not going to block copper like zinc supplements. Oysters would though. Taking a small amount of zinc shouldnt be too bad while you try to raise copper levels.
Thanks! Let’s see if I can get my copper up. Next test is in beginning of January.
 

Motif

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@redsun

My copper is just not going up. What could be the cause ? One month without zinc and high dosed copper. Liver , potatoes etc.

Levels did not go up a bit!
 
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LeeBee

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Were you able to raise your copper levels?
i don’t know why , but mine are not going up no matter what I do
i use copper sebacate from iherb, i take one whenever i notice grey hairs developing then wait and watch… ultimately i take maybe 6 a year usually. i can often see from a strand of fallen hair with intact scalp end bit that the grey is at the tip and the root is growing back in brown.
 

Dr. B

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@redsun

My copper is just not going up. What could be the cause ? One month without zinc and high dosed copper. Liver , potatoes etc.

Levels did not go up a bit!
Maybe storing it? How do you know levels didn’t go up
 

Lejeboca

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Ok I can see how what I said could be confusing. What I said was assuming you eat several oysters in one go. You can easily consume 40mg of zinc from just a few oysters in one sitting. When taking in total, if the total zinc intake for a day is around or greater than 40mg (from oysters and from other foods eaten that same day), you need to wait a few days to absorb a lot of copper from something like liver. If you are eating 1 oyster at a time and your total zinc intake daily is 30mg or less average, this is not going strongly inhibit copper absorption for days unlike eating a large amount of oysters or supplementing a lot of zinc.

What I said was based on eating several or more oysters in one go. If you eat 1 at a time this won't increase daily zinc intake that high, so it doesnt apply in this case.
Got me curious about the duration/amounts of zinc blocking copper absorption in the gut. From a quick search and reading the abstracts only, it seems that the ratios of zinc to copper matters mostly (starting with 10/1 (in moles) ) and a presence of histidine starting to block Cu absorption via binding to the MT protein.

Also, when Cu is low it is mostly bound to MT and not available, regardless of Zinc intake:


This 2nd paper talks about minutes, not days, for noticing the changes on MT and no serosal transfer of Cu was observed. So, I imagine, that one does not have to wait days after taking Zn to return to normal absorption of Cu in the gut.
Do you agree or where did you see mentioning of days? Thanks.
 

Aad

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Excess zinc can also cause iron deficiency, hence high transferrin and low ferritin. There are studies you can look up of zinc supplementation worsening iron status. Poor iron status and excess zinc/copper may leave you with excess hydrogen peroxide. Copper may help sometimes but not always. The issue is not that you can't make melanin (needs copper), its that you have too much hydrogen peroxide interfering with melanin production. You need catalase enzyme and glutathione peroxidase to get rid of H2O2. Zinc and copper excess and lack of iron relative to these minerals may leave you with low catalase and thus too much hydrogen peroxide (SOD is copper/zinc dependent and makes H2O2). Catalase is an iron dependent reaction that neutralizes hydrogen peroxide. GSH peroxidase depends on glutathione redox cycle (which the B-vitamins are vital for).

If you take iron and B-vitamins your grey hair should change color again and anemia symptoms should improve. You should keep zinc and copper intake to daily values. Eat proteins that don't have as many minerals in it except maybe iron rich ones (red meat, chicken, pork) until you are better. I guess you can see for yourself you can still have too much of a good thing.

Thank you.
 

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