Oxygen versus Carbon Dioxide

[AlisonG]

I'd like to know the therapeutic value of Oxygen versus Carbon dioxide. In light of Ray's praise of carbon dioxide, I'm trying to make sense of why oxygen works amazing things through hyperbaric chambers, ozone and hydrogen peroxide IVs or even just on a wound. When oxygen appears to be "healing", is it doing so because it is killing some sort of pathogen? I'dlike to understand when you go for oxygen as a tool and when you go for carbon dioxide.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'd like to know the therapeutic value of Oxygen versus Carbon dioxide. In light of Ray's praise of carbon dioxide, I'm trying to make sense of why oxygen works amazing things through hyperbaric chambers, ozone and hydrogen peroxide IVs or even just on a wound. When oxygen appears to be "healing", is it doing so because it is killing some sort of pathogen? I'dlike to understand when you go for oxygen as a tool and when you go for carbon dioxide.

Me too!

 

[Nokoni]

One of the ideas with CO2 is to improve oxygen delivery to the tissues. The hemoglobin in the blood carries the oxygen throughout the body but it will only release the oxygen into the tissues in the presence of CO2. If CO2 levels are too low then the blood may be fully oxygenated at the same time the tissues themselves are starved of O2 because the hemoglobin refuses to release it. This is called the Bohr Effect. Another benefit of CO2 is that it has a mild diuretic effect that helps draw water out of the cell which may improve cellular function if retained water is too high. You can increase CO2 levels with light exercise, with thyroid hormone if deficient (or anything that increases metabolic rate), or with a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor like acetazolamide or high-dose thiamine. Some people, including Dr Peat, immerse themselves in giant garbage bags that they fill with CO2 gas and seal at the neck. They seem to report good results.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

One of the ideas with CO2 is to improve oxygen delivery to the tissues. The hemoglobin in the blood carries the oxygen throughout the body but it will only release the oxygen into the tissues in the presence of CO2. If CO2 levels are too low then the blood may be fully oxygenated at the same time the tissues themselves are starved of O2 because the hemoglobin refuses to release it. This is called the Bohr Effect. Another benefit of CO2 is that it has a mild diuretic effect that helps draw water out of the cell which may improve cellular function if retained water is too high. You can increase CO2 levels with light exercise, with thyroid hormone if deficient (or anything that increases metabolic rate), or with a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor like acetazolamide or high-dose thiamine. Some people, including Dr Peat, immerse themselves in giant garbage bags that they fill with CO2 gas and seal at the neck. They seem to report good results.

This is a great explaination, and it is a little off the subject latching on to the end of what you said, but wouldn’t breathing in the emissions from the large plastic garbage bag be a problem? I am thinking reusing my same paper bag, and chemicals used to make it might cause it’s own problems.

 

[Nokoni]

wouldn’t breathing in the emissions from the large plastic garbage bag be a problem?

Interesting question. Plastic infused CO2 may not be as therapeutic, lol. But honestly I don't have any idea. Note that they don't actually breathe from the bag, but instead let the CO2 pass through the skin instead.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Interesting question. Plastic infused CO2 may not be as therapeutic, lol. But honestly I don't have any idea. Note that they don't actually breathe from the bag, but instead let the CO2 pass through the skin instead.

Still skin absorbs a lot of stuff. Good things to ponder for sure :)

 

[Mauritio]

I'd like to know the therapeutic value of Oxygen versus Carbon dioxide. In light of Ray's praise of carbon dioxide, I'm trying to make sense of why oxygen works amazing things through hyperbaric chambers, ozone and hydrogen peroxide IVs or even just on a wound. When oxygen appears to be "healing", is it doing so because it is killing some sort of pathogen? I'dlike to understand when you go for oxygen as a tool and when you go for carbon dioxide.

They're not exclusive.
Co2 increases tissue oxygenation.
And hyperbaric oxygen therapy causes increased Co2 retention (and thus increased tissue oxygenation).

"Hyperbaric oxygen (HBO2) causes CO2 retention in the brain that leads to the increase in cerebral blood flow (CBF) ..."

Europe PMC

Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature.

europepmc.org

 

[Mauritio]

One of the ideas with CO2 is to improve oxygen delivery to the tissues. The hemoglobin in the blood carries the oxygen throughout the body but it will only release the oxygen into the tissues in the presence of CO2. If CO2 levels are too low then the blood may be fully oxygenated at the same time the tissues themselves are starved of O2 because the hemoglobin refuses to release it. This is called the Bohr Effect. Another benefit of CO2 is that it has a mild diuretic effect that helps draw water out of the cell which may improve cellular function if retained water is too high. You can increase CO2 levels with light exercise, with thyroid hormone if deficient (or anything that increases metabolic rate), or with a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor like acetazolamide or high-dose thiamine. Some people, including Dr Peat, immerse themselves in giant garbage bags that they fill with CO2 gas and seal at the neck. They seem to report good results.

Speaking of the bohr effect.
AFAIK it's also dependent on pH and not just on Co2 levels ,so shouldn't other acids be able to trigger the same effect ?

From wikipedia:
"That is, the Bohr effect refers to the shift in the oxygen dissociation curve caused by changes in the concentration of carbon dioxide or the pH of the environment. Since carbon dioxide reacts with water to form carbonic acid, an increase in CO2 results in a decrease in blood pH,[2] resulting in hemoglobin proteins releasing their load of oxygen."

 

[Nokoni]

shouldn't other acids be able to trigger the same effect ?

You're wikipedia quote would seem to imply as much, though I would not be able to confirm it.

 

[MeScony]

To get back to the original question: Oxidative therapies make oxygen available to the cells, these cells have probably been o2 deprived for some time. Over time cells which do not have to work hard lose mitochondria and thus their ability to make energy. This newly available o2 will be utilized by some of the cells to make (extra) energy to combat whichever malady their experiencing at the given time. This extra energy is perceived as a healing effect from the o2 molecule rather than from a better functioning cell. In the blood is a different story, pathogenic species can be terminated by the presence of unbound o2, mostly observed from blood ozone treatments. Hyperbaric is only marginally effective as a therapeutic based on the limitation of "available o2" versus an o2 demand from the cell. Just because o2 is coursing threw the vascular system does not mean it is being utilized by the tissue cells, the net result of HBo2 is a minimal blood cleansing. In a perfect world the body regulates a balance of Co2 and O2, as mentioned above, however, as demand for o2 declines because of low metabolic call for energy or the cell becomes toxic from any foreign substance then cellular respiration gets limited and the body will adjust its o2 and Co2 ratios in favor of more Co2. The body has no mechanism for monitoring oxygen levels only Co2! As this Co2 level is allowed to rise this displaces the utilization of oxygen, which directly correlates to energy capacity! In this scenario the fix isn't oxygen or carbon dioxide, it's in establishing the correct ratio balance, and this can only be done by correcting cellular respiration and resetting the brain!

 

[tankasnowgod]

I'd like to know the therapeutic value of Oxygen versus Carbon dioxide. In light of Ray's praise of carbon dioxide, I'm trying to make sense of why oxygen works amazing things through hyperbaric chambers, ozone and hydrogen peroxide IVs or even just on a wound. When oxygen appears to be "healing", is it doing so because it is killing some sort of pathogen? I'dlike to understand when you go for oxygen as a tool and when you go for carbon dioxide.

Peat has even spoken favorably about regular hyperbaric chambers, but has suggested that might be even more beneficial if some Carbon Dioxide were used in addition to the oxygen.

As for the other two..... well, they aren't Oxygen, at least as we normally think about it. H202 is clearly more than just oxygen molecules, and Ozone, while it is only Oxygen molecules, it O3, and isn't a safe substance. I'm not aware of anyone who recommends breathing Ozone regularly in any amount.

 

[Elderflower j58]

"Pure oxygen kindles the match that fuels a forest fire of harm to the
Body" said Harper. "But a little whiff of CARBON DIOXIDE makes it all go away."


Imaging Study Reveals How Pure Oxygen Harms The Brain

 

[WonMore]

Peat has even spoken favorably about regular hyperbaric chambers, but has suggested that might be even more beneficial if some Carbon Dioxide were used in addition to the oxygen.

As for the other two..... well, they aren't Oxygen, at least as we normally think about it. H202 is clearly more than just oxygen molecules, and Ozone, while it is only Oxygen molecules, it O3, and isn't a safe substance. I'm not aware of anyone who recommends breathing Ozone regularly in any amount.

Where has he spoken about hyperbaric chambers? I always thought he would not be in favor of that, considering the toxicity of oxygen. Is there any more rationale to it?
I'm pondering a normobaric chamber, where oxygen is supposed to be 40%, pressure 1,5 atm and CO2 1-2%, I wonder if they got these ratios right