Oxidal - Liquid Redox Modulator

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haidut

haidut

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Makrosky said:
post 104623
haidut said:
post 104507
Makrosky said:
post 104437 Haidut,

I'm going to try oxidal. Is there any condition or scenario where it's use would not recommended? Just in case...

It looks promising!

The only ones I know of is people taking SSRI since MB can trigger serotonin syndrome in such people, and hypertensives as MB is known to raise blood pressure initially but that effects seems to wane after the first week.

Cool, thanks man! Btw, if taken orally, does it stain teeth ???

It has never happened to me even in 30mg dose at a time. I dissolve it in a little bit of Coke/Pepsi and chug it. I guess if you have tongue/tooth infection and are using it for that purposes by swishing with it, then it may stain the teeth. But I have tried that too and it did not stain mine.
 
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tara

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haidut said:
post 104762 It has never happened to me even in 30mg dose at a time. I dissolve it in a little bit of Coke/Pepsi and chug it. I guess if you have tongue/tooth infection and are using it for that purposes by swishing with it, then it may stain the teeth. But I have tried that too and it did not stain mine.
Did it help with tooth infection?
 
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haidut

haidut

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tara said:
post 104880
haidut said:
post 104762 It has never happened to me even in 30mg dose at a time. I dissolve it in a little bit of Coke/Pepsi and chug it. I guess if you have tongue/tooth infection and are using it for that purposes by swishing with it, then it may stain the teeth. But I have tried that too and it did not stain mine.
Did it help with tooth infection?

Oh yes, the swollen hum subsided after just one day. I actually rinse my teeth with an MB solution as an alternative to Listerine. I think it would be a fine ingredient in any tooth paste. The tooth staining risk is overblown IMO. You'd have to keep MB in your mouth for a few hours to get stained teeth. Stained gum is another issue and even that subsides overnight.
 
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tara

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haidut said:
post 104942
tara said:
post 104880
Did it help with tooth infection?

Oh yes, the swollen hum subsided after just one day. I actually rinse my teeth with an MB solution as an alternative to Listerine. I think it would be a fine ingredient in any tooth paste. The tooth staining risk is overblown IMO. You'd have to keep MB in your mouth for a few hours to get stained teeth. Stained gum is another issue and even that subsides overnight.
Ta. Sounds like a great idea. Was that 30mg for mouth swishing, or a smaller amount?
 
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haidut

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tara said:
post 104996
haidut said:
post 104942
tara said:
post 104880
Did it help with tooth infection?

Oh yes, the swollen hum subsided after just one day. I actually rinse my teeth with an MB solution as an alternative to Listerine. I think it would be a fine ingredient in any tooth paste. The tooth staining risk is overblown IMO. You'd have to keep MB in your mouth for a few hours to get stained teeth. Stained gum is another issue and even that subsides overnight.
Ta. Sounds like a great idea. Was that 30mg for mouth swishing, or a smaller amount?

For the swishing I use 10mg dissolved in water. I think doing the same solution but with vodka instead of water would make it even more effective. This is not just for infections but for killing any bacteria linked to tooth decay.
 
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tara

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Ta. Wonder if a 1mg dose swished well before swallowing would be enough to make a difference. I've had a lot of tooth decay all my life, and according to hygienist, some chronic periodontal disease.
 
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haidut

haidut

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tara said:
post 105001 Ta. Wonder if a 1mg dose swished well before swallowing would be enough to make a difference. I've had a lot of tooth decay all my life, and according to hygienist, some chronic periodontal disease.

Low dose tetracycline may be better for periodontal disease. There are studies with 20mg doxycycline taken twice a day for 6 months reversing osteoporosis and periodontal disease.
Methylene blue synergizes really well with red light. Ingesting some and then basking under a red light for 30min can really clean your body of chronic low-grade infections. Don't know about mouth, but this method works pretty well in the gut.
 
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tara

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haidut said:
post 105002 Methylene blue synergizes really well with red light. Ingesting some and then basking under a red light for 30min can really clean your body of chronic low-grade infections. Don't know about mouth, but this method works pretty well in the gut.
Aha. So before going to the beach is better than before bed. :)

Such_Saturation said:
post 105004 You can try oregano oil mouth rinses.
That's an idea. Have you tried it/had success?
 
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Makrosky

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tara said:
post 105008
haidut said:
post 105002 Methylene blue synergizes really well with red light. Ingesting some and then basking under a red light for 30min can really clean your body of chronic low-grade infections. Don't know about mouth, but this method works pretty well in the gut.
Aha. So before going to the beach is better than before bed. :)

Are you serious? Like, taking MB and then sitting in the sun for 30 mins would work ?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Makrosky said:
post 105011
tara said:
post 105008
haidut said:
post 105002 Methylene blue synergizes really well with red light. Ingesting some and then basking under a red light for 30min can really clean your body of chronic low-grade infections. Don't know about mouth, but this method works pretty well in the gut.
Aha. So before going to the beach is better than before bed. :)

Are you serious? Like, taking MB and then sitting in the sun for 30 mins would work ?

Yes, it's called photodynamic therapy and has been used for all kinds of things including cancer and killing pathogens. Google "methylene blue pdt".
http://aac.asm.org/content/53/7/3042.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20552348
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3270367/

It's usually done with red light too. This is from one of the above studies:
"...Antibiotic resistant planktonic bacteria and fungi and polymicrobial biofilms of Pseudomonas aerugenosa and MRSA were grown on silastic sheets and treated with a methylene blue photosensitizer and 670nm non-thermal activating light. Cultures of the planktonic micoroorganisms and biofilms were obtained before and after light treatment to determine efficacy of planktonic baciteria and biofilm reduction."

As you can see it works even against antibiotic resistant bacteria. As far as I know bacteria cannot develop resistance to methylene blue. Not sure why this is not a more common tool in hospitals and GP visits...Wait, I know - it's dirt cheap and people will start doing it themselves. What a radical idea...
 
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tara

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haidut said:
post 105015 Wait, I know - it's dirt cheap and people will start doing it themselves.

But if they switched all their general lighting from fluorescents to incandescents they'd hike up their electricity bill, and that's a different department. :)

Like providing more nourishing food would cost more.
 
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tara

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haidut said:
post 105015 It's usually done with red light too.
Do yo mean more restricted red light would be more effective than wide spectrum sunlight?
 
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Makrosky

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haidut said:
post 105015
Makrosky said:
post 105011
tara said:
post 105008
haidut said:
post 105002 Methylene blue synergizes really well with red light. Ingesting some and then basking under a red light for 30min can really clean your body of chronic low-grade infections. Don't know about mouth, but this method works pretty well in the gut.
Aha. So before going to the beach is better than before bed. :)

Are you serious? Like, taking MB and then sitting in the sun for 30 mins would work ?

Yes, it's called photodynamic therapy and has been used for all kinds of things including cancer and killing pathogens. Google "methylene blue pdt".
http://aac.asm.org/content/53/7/3042.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20552348
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3270367/

It's usually done with red light too. This is from one of the above studies:
"...Antibiotic resistant planktonic bacteria and fungi and polymicrobial biofilms of Pseudomonas aerugenosa and MRSA were grown on silastic sheets and treated with a methylene blue photosensitizer and 670nm non-thermal activating light. Cultures of the planktonic micoroorganisms and biofilms were obtained before and after light treatment to determine efficacy of planktonic baciteria and biofilm reduction."

As you can see it works even against antibiotic resistant bacteria. As far as I know bacteria cannot develop resistance to methylene blue. Not sure why this is not a more common tool in hospitals and GP visits...Wait, I know - it's dirt cheap and people will start doing it themselves. What a radical idea...

Wow!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Thanks man. I'm gonna go through those links. Can't wait for the oxidal to arrive. Man you spit out cool info much faster than we can digest it, slow down! :lol:

Btw haidut, I hate to complaint about things but I think I must say this: the dripping from the estroban bottle doesn't really work properly. At least for me. I've waited till I used it many times and everytime I have problems with it. Other than that, the product itself is superb. Very potent and clean.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Makrosky said:
post 105020
haidut said:
post 105015
Makrosky said:
post 105011
tara said:
post 105008
haidut said:
post 105002 Methylene blue synergizes really well with red light. Ingesting some and then basking under a red light for 30min can really clean your body of chronic low-grade infections. Don't know about mouth, but this method works pretty well in the gut.
Aha. So before going to the beach is better than before bed. :)

Are you serious? Like, taking MB and then sitting in the sun for 30 mins would work ?

Yes, it's called photodynamic therapy and has been used for all kinds of things including cancer and killing pathogens. Google "methylene blue pdt".
http://aac.asm.org/content/53/7/3042.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20552348
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3270367/

It's usually done with red light too. This is from one of the above studies:
"...Antibiotic resistant planktonic bacteria and fungi and polymicrobial biofilms of Pseudomonas aerugenosa and MRSA were grown on silastic sheets and treated with a methylene blue photosensitizer and 670nm non-thermal activating light. Cultures of the planktonic micoroorganisms and biofilms were obtained before and after light treatment to determine efficacy of planktonic baciteria and biofilm reduction."

As you can see it works even against antibiotic resistant bacteria. As far as I know bacteria cannot develop resistance to methylene blue. Not sure why this is not a more common tool in hospitals and GP visits...Wait, I know - it's dirt cheap and people will start doing it themselves. What a radical idea...

Wow!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Thanks man. I'm gonna go through those links. Can't wait for the oxidal to arrive. Man you spit out cool info much faster than we can digest it, slow down! :lol:

Btw haidut, I hate to complaint about things but I think I must say this: the dripping from the estroban bottle doesn't really work properly. At least for me. I've waited till I used it many times and everytime I have problems with it. Other than that, the product itself is superb. Very potent and clean.

Thanks!
Noted on the EstroBan, we will try to get a bigger dropper or change the bottle altogether.
 
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narouz

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I was just reading some stuff about some metabolites or derivatives of MB
called azure A and azure B.
Also about, in the second abstract below, about a synthetic analog of MB (ethylthioninium chloride).
The guy I buy my MB from on eBay had these studies/snippets posted along with the azure A and B he sells.



" Both in vivo and in vitro, methylene blue loses methyl groups to yield the derivatives azure A and azure B. Both of these also oxidize tau cysteines in the same way as the parent dye, but there's a twist. The azure compounds also bind to aromatic amino acids and thereby block β-sheet stacking. "These compounds strike a double hit to prevent tau aggregation," said Zweckstetter."
Tom Fagan, 21 Feb 2013 "Does TauRx Drug Work by Oxidizing Tau?" from Alzforum


Life Sci. 2014 Nov 11;117(2):56-66.
Azure B and a synthetic structural analogue of methylene blue, ethylthioninium chloride, present with antidepressant-like properties.
Delport A, Harvey BH, Petzer A, Petzer JP.

Abstract

The phenothiazinium compound, methylene blue (MB), possesses diverse pharmacological actions and is attracting attention for the treatment of bipolar disorder and Alzheimer's disease. MB acts on both monoamine oxidase (MAO) and the nitric oxide (NO)-cGMP pathway, and possesses antidepressant activity in rodents. The goal of this study was to synthesise a structural analogue of MB, ethylthioninium chloride (ETC), and to evaluate the effects of the structural changes on the MAO inhibitory and antidepressant properties of MB. This study also investigated the antidepressant properties of azure B, the major metabolite of MB, versus MB and imipramine as active comparators.
MAIN METHODS:
ETC and azure B were firstly evaluated as inhibitors of human MAO, and secondly for antidepressant-like activity in the acute forced swim test (FST) in rats, and compared to saline, imipramine and MB.
KEY FINDINGS:
The results document that ETC is a reversible inhibitor of MAO-A and MAO-B with IC50 values of 0.510 μM and 0.592 μM, respectively, and that it is a weaker MAO-A inhibitor than MB and azure B. ETC and azure B were more effective than imipramine and MB in reversing immobility in the FST without inducing locomotor effects, with evidence supporting a serotonergic action. Of interest is the finding that ETC is more toxic for cultured cells than MB.
CONCLUSION:
Azure B may therefore be a contributor to the antidepressant effect of MB. Small structural changes made to MB retain its antidepressant effect, even though the resulting phenothiazinium compound possesses reduced MAO-A inhibitory potency.



Toxicol Appl Pharmacol. 2012 Feb 1;258(3):403-9. doi: 10.1016/j.taap.2011.12.005. Epub 2011 Dec 16.
Azure B, a metabolite of methylene blue, is a high-potency, reversible inhibitor of monoamine oxidase.
Petzer A, Harvey BH, Wegener G, Petzer JP.

Abstract

Methylene blue (MB) has been shown to act at multiple cellular and molecular targets and as a result possesses diverse medical applications. Among these is a high potency reversible inhibition of monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) that may, at least in part, underlie its adverse effects but also its psycho- and neuromodulatory actions. MB is metabolized to yield N-demethylated products of which azure B, the monodemethyl species, is the major metabolite. Similar to MB, azure B also displays a variety of biological activities and may therefore contribute to the pharmacological profile of MB. Based on these observations, the present study examines the interactions of azure B with recombinant human MAO-A and -B. The results show that azure B is a potent MAO-A inhibitor (IC₅₀=11 nM), approximately 6-fold more potent than is MB (IC₅₀=70 nM) under identical conditions. Measurements of the time-dependency of inhibition suggest that the interaction of azure B with MAO-A is reversible. Azure B also reversibly inhibits the MAO-B isozyme with an IC₅₀ value of 968 nM. These results suggest that azure B may be a hitherto under recognized contributor to the pharmacology and toxicology of MB by blocking central and peripheral MAO-A activity and as such needs to be considered during its use in humans and animals.
Copyright © 2011 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.



Agents Actions. 1991 Nov;34(3-4):424-8.
Anti-tumoral and anti-inflammatory effects of biological stains.
Culo F1, Sabolović D, Somogyi L, Marusić M, Berbiguier N, Galey L.

Abstract

The biological stains, methylene blue and its metabolite azure B, were evaluated as anti-tumor and anti-inflammatory agents. Azur B, administered in drinking water to tumor-bearing mice, inhibited the growth of transplanted tumors and the growth of primary tumors induced by methylcholanthrene. Inhibition of growth of primary tumors was observed only in female mice. Azure B also reduced the wet weight of carrageenin-induced granulomas in rats. Azure B, given intravenously to BCG-sensitized mice 15 minutes prior to challenge with lipopolysaccharide, decreased TNF production (to 10% of control values) and prevented death from endotoxic shock. Methylene blue decreased TNF production (to 50% of control values) but did not protect the animals from endotoxic shock. Our results suggest that some of the effects previously ascribed to methylene blue are probably mediated via its metabolite, i.e. azure B. Low toxicity and easy administration of the dyes explain their use in clinical settings.
 

Fetch

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I have had recurring upper back pain/tightness when experimenting with oxidal/methylene blue in the range of only 1-2 mg taken orally a day spread out. I don't get this from tropical methylene blue. I have thought that it was possibly related to either liver detox of some sort of intestinal die off. I have tried things that support liver and endotoxin removal (extra carrot salad, activated charcoal, taurine, extra caffeine, cascara) and things that may address local tissue (red light, massage, stretching). But I usually stop after a few days because it is pretty uncomfortable and I don't want to get hurt at work.

I have had a tight upper back for years but it is mostly manageable and has been so loose as to spontaneously pop and crack on it's own quite a bit while peating. That's a big deal as many a chiropractors haven't been able to adjust it for years. My shoulders and back get a lot of strain as I regularly carry 20+ lb tool bags hanging from suspenders at work and do a lot of lifting and position thing over head or bending over with the weight across my back for hours. Many times at work my upper back has tightened pretty severely to the point it's a little hard to breath but I just work through it and it loosens up over a couple hours.

All this is to ask if you know of any other reason this may be happening. I was thinking that possibly the local tissue has a sever overload of nitric oxide and maybe the transition to lower NO higher CO2 is just a little harder on the muscles. It's probably a long shot but I am just trying to come up with ideas. My searches on the topic haven't come up with much.

So I have a week off work and I started oxidal again on thursday last week. The tight back came on by friday and hasn't budged yet I am going to stick with it till at least friday to see if I make any progress but suggestions would be appreciated. Otherwise I have been feeling great. Other sups I am taking are pansterone, estroban, taurine, caffeine, magnesium bicarbonate, retinil, and energin but I have been using all of these for months now with the exception of increasing my dose of energin to twice a day.

Thanks
 
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haidut

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Fetch said:
post 108605 I have had recurring upper back pain/tightness when experimenting with oxidal/methylene blue in the range of only 1-2 mg taken orally a day spread out. I don't get this from tropical methylene blue. I have thought that it was possibly related to either liver detox of some sort of intestinal die off. I have tried things that support liver and endotoxin removal (extra carrot salad, activated charcoal, taurine, extra caffeine, cascara) and things that may address local tissue (red light, massage, stretching). But I usually stop after a few days because it is pretty uncomfortable and I don't want to get hurt at work.

I have had a tight upper back for years but it is mostly manageable and has been so loose as to spontaneously pop and crack on it's own quite a bit while peating. That's a big deal as many a chiropractors haven't been able to adjust it for years. My shoulders and back get a lot of strain as I regularly carry 20+ lb tool bags hanging from suspenders at work and do a lot of lifting and position thing over head or bending over with the weight across my back for hours. Many times at work my upper back has tightened pretty severely to the point it's a little hard to breath but I just work through it and it loosens up over a couple hours.

All this is to ask if you know of any other reason this may be happening. I was thinking that possibly the local tissue has a sever overload of nitric oxide and maybe the transition to lower NO higher CO2 is just a little harder on the muscles. It's probably a long shot but I am just trying to come up with ideas. My searches on the topic haven't come up with much.

So I have a week off work and I started oxidal again on thursday last week. The tight back came on by friday and hasn't budged yet I am going to stick with it till at least friday to see if I make any progress but suggestions would be appreciated. Otherwise I have been feeling great. Other sups I am taking are pansterone, estroban, taurine, caffeine, magnesium bicarbonate, retinil, and energin but I have been using all of these for months now with the exception of increasing my dose of energin to twice a day.

Thanks

With so many other things you are taking I don't know what could be causing this. But if you are sure it's just Oxidal then don't take it. Some people get bad reaction to the benzoic acid in Oxidal and usually these are the same people that can't handle aspirin well.
 
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Fetch

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Fair enough. I guess I think of most of the other things I am taking as basically maintenance supplements more like a multi vitamin. So I don't really consider stopping when I add in methylene blue. I don't think it's the benzoic acid in oxidal more just methylene blue as I have tried both over the last 6 months and they both give the same symptoms. I think I am going to stick it out this week anyway because I have had success with other supplements in the past that have caused problems initially. I was mostly interested in a possible mechanism I am unaware of. But I guess I have too much going on at the time to be able to know, Thanks anyway.
 

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