Oxidal - Liquid Redox Modulator

[haidut]

I wanted to follow up on this post that I had made a couple months ago. MB did not end up curing the IBS, but niacinamide did. It seemed that the most powerful substances in improving my symptoms were those that had direct effects on the cortisol enzymes (aspirin, niacinamide, DHEA). A couple weeks of about 2-3g niacinamide and all my symptoms were gone. It's hard to say for sure that it was the niacinamide since I was also taking thyroid and amitryptyline, but these had not cured the IBS in past attempts.

I should also note that I think there are various causes of IBS. Some people may have IBS related to SIBO, in which case antibiotics may be more effective. I also think that serotonin is a likely culprit in many cases as well. I'm not sure how often cortisol is explored as the cause of IBS, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was related to many cases as well.

Great, thanks for sharing! Have you see the recent study I posted about IBS / colon aging being due to low NAD and high serotonin? Niacinamide seemed to reverse that issue, and lowering serotonin synthesis was one of the mechanisms of action.

 

[babadook]

Great, thanks for sharing! Have you see the recent study I posted about IBS / colon aging being due to low NAD and high serotonin? Niacinamide seemed to reverse that issue, and lowering serotonin synthesis was one of the mechanisms of action.

Yes, I think that was the reason I initially decided to try niacinamide. Although I'm curious as to how much niacian/niacianamide could affect something like the NAD/NADH ratio, seeing as these redox reactions take place trillions of times per day. Perhaps this is why RP recommends smaller doses more frequently as opposed to one big dose. Although that being said, I've felt the most powerful effect on libido from higher single doses closer to 4-5g. It also once caused tinnitus at these high doses, similar to aspirin.

 

[Waynish]

Seems like most people are on less than 2 drops per day in order to avoid raising serotonin. However, I'm wonder who has tried medium-high doses, and what effects they've seen as a result.

 

[Lee Simeon]

I have tried 20 drops topically, I did not notice any major effects besides a small boost in mental function. Made me look like a member from Blue Man Group though, so it is not something I would do on a regular basis.

 

[haidut]

Seems like most people are on less than 2 drops per day in order to avoid raising serotonin. However, I'm wonder who has tried medium-high doses, and what effects they've seen as a result.

Keep in mind that Oxidal also contains benzoic acid, which when oxidized by methylene blue can turn into the powerful quinone ortho-benzoquinone (1,2-benzoquinone, OBQ) which was the preferred quinone of Koch's therapy when his ethylenedione was not available. You do not want more than a few milligrams of OBQ at a time floating around as it is a powerful oxidizing agent...hence the name Oxidal Since benzoic acid, methylene blue, and OBQ are also powerful uncouplers, higher doses may make the person sweat uncomfortably. In my exprience Oxidal achieves that uncoupling effect at much lower doses (<5mg) than pure methylene blue (>10mg).
For most people, except for ones with very specific reductive state issues, I think 2-3 drops Oxidal daily is enough.

 

[Watson350]

Anyones testicles ache after taking one drop of oxidal as a pre workout? Just about an hour or so in?

 

[Wagner83]

Effects of methylene blue on blood pressure and reactivity to norepinephrine in endotoxemic rats.
Paya D, et al. J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 1993.

Abstract
The effects of methylene blue, an inhibitor of the activation of the soluble guanylyl cyclase by nitric oxide (NO), were studied on blood pressure (BP) and on hyporesponsiveness to norepinephrine (NE) induced by Escherichia coli lipopolysaccharide (LPS) in pentobarbital-anesthetized rats. Methylene blue intravenous (i.v.) injection (3 mg/kg) produced a transient increase in BP which, in LPS-treated rats, was followed by a more sustained increase in BP. Methylene blue restored the reactivity to NE in LPS-treated rats but did not change either BP or reactivity to NE in saline-infused control rats. Cyclic GMP level was significantly increased in small femoral resistance arteries removed from LPS-treated rats as compared with controls (125.2 +/- 19.5 and 83.5 +/- 18.8 fmol/mg DNA, respectively, n = 8). In rats receiving methylene blue, there was no significant difference in cyclic GMP content of the arteries of LPS-treated rats as compared with controls (59.4 +/- 8.1 and 78.5 +/- 6.1 fmol/mg DNA, respectively, n = 8). These results support the involvement of increased stimulation of arterial guanylyl cyclase in hyporeactivity to NE elicited by LPS. They show that in vivo administration of methylene blue is able to restore both vascular cyclic GMP level and pressor responses to NE to control levels in LPS-treated rats.


Also:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/7587237/
CONCLUSIONS: Low and moderate doses of methylene blue can significantly increase arterial blood pressure but not cardiac index during endotoxic shock. Methylene blue infusion may selectively increase mesenteric blood flow. High doses of methylene blue can worsen systemic hypotension, myocardial depression, and pulmonary hypertension after endotoxemia.

@haidut
@DaveFoster I know you had bp issues from it.
So maybe charcoal, good digestion and oj would protect from the negative effects of mb, while using it despite endotoxin overload wouldn't be smart.

But then:

http://ispub.com/IJA/28/2/8425

Another consideration involves the role of methylene blue and serotonin release. Schick and Yu found that methylene blue induces serotonin release from storage sites in human platelets.[13] Interestingly, they found that it often took up to 15 minutes before sizable amounts of serotonin, a known vasoconstrictor, is released. This physiologic phenomenon parallels more closely the time course of the hypertensive response in our patient.

Secondly, it is interesting that such a small dose of methylene blue produced such profound hemodynamic perturbations. Our patient received 0.58 mg/kg, a fraction of the 1-2 mg/kg recommended on the package insert and nearly 4-fold lower than the doses used in the study cited above. Furthermore, the dose of 0.58 mg/kg was diluted in 10 cc of normal saline and administered slowly. The hypertensive responses in this study are from a far higher dose. It is thus unclear whether the magnitude of vasoconstriction can be correlated with dosage.

Thirdly, the severity of the hypertensive response merits explanation. The increase in systolic blood pressure, from 110 to 242, accompanied by decrease in heart rate from 132 to 72 clearly indicates a severe vasoconstrictive reaction with corresponding reflex bradycardia. The severity of this reaction, given the low dosage, is surprising and the patient was clearly at risk for cerebrovascular insult. It is has been shown in rat vas deferens studies that methylene blue enhances the sensitivity to noradrenaline through a pathway of neuronal uptake inhibition. Even though attempts are made to control sympathetic surges during surgical procedures by the anesthesiologist, it is not always possible to predict when the patient may manifest physiologic response to pain, especially when pre-emptive analgesia has been administered. Certainly in this case, surgical stimulation could cause sympathetic surges that were not adequately blunted pharmacologically leading to excessive adrenergic mediators. If the reuptake system of these mediators had been blocked by methylene blue, the excessive adrenergic stimulation could account for the observed hypertensive crisis, despite what would normally be considered adequate anesthesia.


I wonder if the effects from mb on serotonin somehow explain the issues seen with high endotoxin load.

 

[MrThyroid]

guys i hade recently a really nice experience i ate a spicy hot pastete from red peppers from turkish store which i bought. And gosh it raised my metabolism so hard and what i saw in ingridients stunned me, it had not only benzoic acid but also acetetic acid (btw also an uncoupler).
I can defenitly say this shi.t works i wish i live in usa to get also oxidal maybe the impact is bigger compared to this red pepper pastete

 

[Wagner83]

I thought it would be ok to have drop of oxidal two hours after feta cheese, I was very wrong, don't do it at home.
Otherwise I wrote about it somewhere else but one drop removes tongue coating very fast. It comes back but perhaps if one can tolerate it a big dose for a few days would do, I don't know. For some reason I could tolerate it fine the past few days (although I'd need to check blood pressure as apparently high bp can be symptomless). I think it can help with allergies and asthma and I'm wondering how much fungus, bacteria overgrowth and tongue coating may play a part in those and digestion. Amazoniac posted information from various scientists on how tongue coating is a clear sign things are going awry. I read a few stories online, how some people seem to not tolerate (but possibly ate tyramine), how an other had lifted his depression for a few weeks then it stopped working etc..

Ps: Double check and make your own decision but apparently certain cheeses are low in tyramine, like ricotta from pasteurized milk.

 

[Wagner83]

What do you guys eat or tolerate when you take mb? Have you found cheeses which are fine? Potatoes?
@haidut,
@Jsaute21, @T-3, @Amazoniac and others.

 

[Amazoniac]

What do you guys eat or tolerate when you take mb? Have you found cheeses which are fine? Potatoes?
@haidut,
@Jsaute21, @T-3, @Amazoniac and others.

The times I tried it (methylene of the blues), I never had problems with anything, but the doses were very low.

There's the bacterial amine issue in fermented foods:
Methylene blue sources with contaminant testing - Toxinless

Have you considered using it to impersonate William and Wallace?

 

[Wagner83]

The times I tried it (methylene of the blues), I never had problems with anything, but the doses were very low.

There's the bacterial amine issue in fermented foods:
Methylene blue sources with contaminant testing - Toxinless

Have you considered using it to impersonate William and Wallace?

12 bars, me sharp ?

If (ric)hard cheeses are now out of question, being able to eat some quark cheese, minced meat and yogurt would make it more sustainable.

? (is this Ray?)

 

[haidut]

What do you guys eat or tolerate when you take mb? Have you found cheeses which are fine? Potatoes?
@haidut,
@Jsaute21, @T-3, @Amazoniac and others.

I just take it with soda, away from meals. So far I have not encountered any bad interactions, probably due to the low doses (1mg daily) I use.

 

[Wagner83]

I just take it with soda, away from meals. So far I have not encountered any bad interactions, probably due to the low doses (1mg daily) I use.

Given how it builds up in tissues do you think it can still interact with tyramine hours after? Also have you noticed issues with taking mb with more fat in the diet, or having coffee right after a meal with 30-40 grams of fat?

 

[haidut]

Given how it builds up in tissues do you think it can still interact with tyramine hours after? Also have you noticed issues with taking mb with more fat in the diet, or having coffee right after a meal with 30-40 grams of fat?

I have noticed possible issues with raising blood pressure when combined with caffeine in higher doses, so that's why I do not use it with caffeine containing foods/drinks. It does tend to build up in the brain so I guess avoiding cheeses and chocolates is important since the tyramine toxicity affects mostly the brain.

 

[ddjd]

is it true that 0.5mg - 4mg per kilogram bodyweight is a safe dose?

 

[ddjd]

which isn't far off from the 800 mcg you get from the one drop dose of this solution

isnt it 400mcg per drop?

 

[ddjd]

there is already an IBS drug that uses methylene blue, so it can definitely help. oxidal should work the same

wasnt this discontinued years ago?

 

[ddjd]

MB is neuroprotective against a large number of toxins. Niacinamide is as well, and actually the two of them are synergistic and niacinamide seems to protect from some of the side effects of MB. So, taking 100mg niacinamide and maybe 1mg MB could do more than each one of them on its own.

yes i think niacinamide helps considerably in preventing the serotonergic symptoms of methylene blue. a good combo. But do think higher doses of niacinamide, 500mg -1g, could be counterproductive alongside MB?

 

[jenjls]

I have been trying between 10-18 drops of oxidial for the past 8 weeks. Should I be concerned about the MAO inhibiting effect?