Oxidal - Liquid Redox Modulator

[Waynish]

Well the ingredients are only "methylene blue, distilled water, natural flavor extract." So I didn't realize it had any flavoring, but I don't see any added coloring.

 

[haidut]

A little confused why 1 drop of oxidal (400mcg) barely changes the color of a liter of water while 1 drop of blue brain boost (.5mg) changes it to very blue... Am I just blanking on unit conversions?

Oxidal also contains caffeine and benzoic acid, which can change the color of the MB if it partially oxidizes them and gets reduced in the process.

 

[Waynish]

Oxidal also contains caffeine and benzoic acid, which can change the color of the MB if it partially oxidizes them and gets reduced in the process.

This answer seems to fit my observations. Does this mean that we should judge the dosing of Oxidal more liberally than other sources of MB?

 

[haidut]

This answer seems to fit my observations. Does this mean that we should judge the dosing of Oxidal more liberally than other sources of MB?

I would say more conservatively because based on the reports Oxidal uncouples in lower doses than pure MB. That is the purpose of the benzoic acid ingredient.

 

[Squatrat]

I read recently that MB is nuero-protective (or protective in some way) for amphetamine users. Is this true and doesnt niacimide do the same thing as MB?

 

[haidut]

I read recently that MB is nuero-protective (or protective in some way) for amphetamine users. Is this true and doesnt niacimide do the same thing as MB?

MB is neuroprotective against a large number of toxins. Niacinamide is as well, and actually the two of them are synergistic and niacinamide seems to protect from some of the side effects of MB. So, taking 100mg niacinamide and maybe 1mg MB could do more than each one of them on its own.

 

[R1984]

@haidut , I have tried to find answers to these questions, but i couldn't. it seems that you are the only personn who i know that could help me.

Hi, it seems that the reduced form of MB is the active in mitochondria and in some experiments with alzheimer (the 280mg single dose if i recall for example) etc. Have you considered using it mixed with vitamin C (as some people do)? (Maybe you combined benzoic acid for this reason?) Is it (MB + Vit. C) a preferable form in your opinion? In theory, it would preserve antioxidants in the body (and it is reported to be better absorbed in the brain)...

Second, i felt nothing in the mcg range, but and incredible boost in mg dosages higher than 3mg with vit. C, and especially higher than 15mg with vit. C oral dose today... [including a headache in the middle of the brain]. Is there any evidence that taking mg instead of mcg can be potentially harmful? (it seems that some people feel effects at mcg and some people feel only from at least some mg).

Third, i noticed subtle negative effects in sex drive/erection as others have mentioned here... I think it is associated with NO effects more than with neurotransmitters or aromatase inhibitory effect. What is your thought about it?

Fourth, i don't think that it should be taken on a daily/uninterrupted basis (some experts say that most of the supplements loose efficacy if taken continuously). Do you have any thoughts about taking MB uninterruptedly?

Fifth, i am aware of nasal applications to address brain etc. Have you considered using nasal (MB + Vit. C) spray? I bought some dispensers/nasal sprays and filled them with MB (1mg/ml) and vitamin C (I probably get 1 small drop per nostril or 1/20 x 1mg = 50mcg per nostril). My thoughts, it would avoid reducing NO in the body (including down there...) (i listened to your interview... you are on the side that NO inhibition is good) and still be useful for the brain effect. My idea is to combine it with occasional oral use of MB/vit. C (probably twice/thrice a week). What is your opinion on this nasal strategy?

I have not studied NO in depth, but it does not seem natural to suppress it constantly (it is a poor argument, i know).

Sixth, (i should know this one... maybe it is silly). Can the reduced form (MB + Vit. C) still react with infrared light (studies say 650nm but i think this is more an in vitro conclusion that doesn't consider skin... case in which 850nm would be hypothetically preferable)? Does the reduced form become inert to light?

sorry for the long text... i think you might the questions interesting.

regards,
Ricardo.

 

[haidut]

@haidut , I have tried to find answers to these questions, but i couldn't. it seems that you are the only personn who i know that could help me.

Hi, it seems that the reduced form of MB is the active in mitochondria and in some experiments with alzheimer (the 280mg single dose if i recall for example) etc. Have you considered using it mixed with vitamin C (as some people do)? (Maybe you combined benzoic acid for this reason?) Is it (MB + Vit. C) a preferable form in your opinion? In theory, it would preserve antioxidants in the body (and it is reported to be better absorbed in the brain)...

Second, i felt nothing in the mcg range, but and incredible boost in mg dosages higher than 3mg with vit. C, and especially higher than 15mg with vit. C oral dose today... [including a headache in the middle of the brain]. Is there any evidence that taking mg instead of mcg can be potentially harmful? (it seems that some people feel effects at mcg and some people feel only from at least some mg).

Third, i noticed subtle negative effects in sex drive/erection as others have mentioned here... I think it is associated with NO effects more than with neurotransmitters or aromatase inhibitory effect. What is your thought about it?

Fourth, i don't think that it should be taken on a daily/uninterrupted basis (some experts say that most of the supplements loose efficacy if taken continuously). Do you have any thoughts about taking MB uninterruptedly?

Fifth, i am aware of nasal applications to address brain etc. Have you considered using nasal (MB + Vit. C) spray? I bought some dispensers/nasal sprays and filled them with MB (1mg/ml) and vitamin C (I probably get 1 small drop per nostril or 1/20 x 1mg = 50mcg per nostril). My thoughts, it would avoid reducing NO in the body (including down there...) (i listened to your interview... you are on the side that NO inhibition is good) and still be useful for the brain effect. My idea is to combine it with occasional oral use of MB/vit. C (probably twice/thrice a week). What is your opinion on this nasal strategy?

I have not studied NO in depth, but it does not seem natural to suppress it constantly (it is a poor argument, i know).

Sixth, (i should know this one... maybe it is silly). Can the reduced form (MB + Vit. C) still react with infrared light (studies say 650nm but i think this is more an in vitro conclusion that doesn't consider skin... case in which 850nm would be hypothetically preferable)? Does the reduced form become inert to light?

sorry for the long text... i think you might the questions interesting.

regards,
Ricardo.

I don't think it's the reduced form that is active. It is the oxidized form that can carry electrons and MB is constantly reduced/oxidized depending on the cell needs. In general, most people will have excessive reduced state so they would benefit more from the oxidized version of MB. There is even a proposed test for how quickly MB gets reduced (loses its color) to measure the health of local tissues where MB is applied. This test is used for diagnosing cancer in some procedures like endoscopy or laparoscopy - i.e. MB is applied to suspicious tissue and if it loses its color faster than a specified threshold then it is probably cancer in that area or at least some sort of fast growing dysplasia, which often turns into cancer.

 

[R1984]

I don't think it's the reduced form that is active. It is the oxidized form that can carry electrons and MB is constantly reduced/oxidized depending on the cell needs. In general, most people will have excessive reduced state so they would benefit more from the oxidized version of MB. There is even a proposed test for how quickly MB gets reduced (loses its color) to measure the health of local tissues where MB is applied. This test is used for diagnosing cancer in some procedures like endoscopy or laparoscopy - i.e. MB is applied to suspicious tissue and if it loses its color faster than a specified threshold then it is probably cancer in that area or at least some sort of fast growing dysplasia, which often turns into cancer.

Thank you for answering. If this is the wrong place to discuss it, let me know that you prefer another thread or PM.

i know the test combined with 650nm directly or in vitro (but i think that to go deeper in skin would be better to use 850nm or higher... that was my comment).

I still have this question in mind: Do you have any thoughts about taking MB uninterruptedly?


Back to your point... i am not sure... maybe taking the reduced form is not necessary (but it still sounds to be a bettter idea)
From perpetualcommotion.com/a/Methylene_Blue.html

"Patent 7,335,505 Reduced methylene blue (leucomethylene blue) is more effective and crosses the blood brain barrier better. One recipe for reduction is 2 - 2.5 mg vitamin C per mg MB for three hours. IC50 for inhibiting tau filament formation is 4 microM."

"Vienna (and Burkina Faso): What's New With Methylene Blue?
Alzheimer Research Forum
30 July 2009
At ICAD in Vienna, Wischik discussed further analysis of the same Phase 2 trial of RemberTM, his biotech company's patented formulation of methylene blue. Wischik noted in his talk that the company had patented a new form called leuco-methylthioninium or LMT, which is no longer blue and renders the drug more bioavailable and less toxic at higher doses. For their part, Schirmer's group had characterized a reduced white version of methylene blue (called leucoMB or methylene white) as a possibly superior form of this drug for use in a colorless drug syrup to treat malaria (see Buchholz et al., 2008 and Schirmer essay). TauRx's new formulation is presently undergoing preclinical studies. For a detailed first-person account of what happened with the high dose of RemberTM in the Phase 2 trial and related topics..."
alzforum.org/new/detail.asp?id=2203

[comment: there is a hyperlink problem here]

https://www.google.com/patents/CA2697520C?cl=en
"Methylene blue exists in the charged blue oxidised form, and the uncharged colourless reduced leukomethylene blue form. We have shown experimentally in cells that the target tissue concentration in cells required to prevent tau aggregation by 50% (ie the EC50) is 4 M for reduced methylene blue, and that it is the leuko- form which is preferentially active. It is shown by DiSanto and Wagner (1972) that approximately 78% of the methylene blue recovered in urine is in the reduced form, and from anatomical studies following iv administration, the only form which is bound to tissues is the colourless reduced form, which becomes oxidised to the blue colour on exposure to air after post-mortem dissection. The only form of methylene blue which crosses the blood-brain barrier after iv administration is the reduced form (Muller, Acta Anat 1992, 144:39-44 and Becker and Quadbeck, 1952). Therefore, orally absorbed methylene blue is very rapidly reduced in the body, and remains so until excretion, possibly undergoing further chemical modification which stabilises it in a reduced form.
It is highly likely that variability in oral absorbtion is determined largely by the efficiency of initial reduction in the GI
tract. One way to achieve more reliable absorbtion is therefore be to pre-reduce methylene blue with ascorbic acid. We have shown from in vitro studies that this conversion is rather slow, so that it takes 3 hours to achieve 90% reduction of methylene blue in water in the presence of 2x mg ratio of ascorbic acid. Therefore, the dosage of methylene blue which is most likely to ensure reliable absorbtion will be 3.5mg/kg/day of methylene blue pre-reduced for at least 3 hours in the presence of 7 mg/kg/day of ascorbic acid.
It is also possible that MB may be active at lower concentrations in man, and that a range of clinically feasible doses would be therefore 20 mg tds, 50 mg tds or 100 mg tds, combined with 2x mg ratio of ascorbic acid in such a manner as to achieve more than 90%
reduction prior to ingestion."

Patent CA2697520C - Use of lyophilised reduced diaminophenothiazines in the treatment of tau mediated neurological disorders

 

[haidut]

Thank you for answering. If this is the wrong place to discuss it, let me know that you prefer another thread or PM.

i know the test combined with 650nm directly or in vitro (but i think that to go deeper in skin would be better to use 850nm or higher... that was my comment).

I still have this question in mind: Do you have any thoughts about taking MB uninterruptedly?


Back to your point... i am not sure... maybe taking the reduced form is not necessary (but it still sounds to be a bettter idea)
From perpetualcommotion.com/a/Methylene_Blue.html

"Patent 7,335,505 Reduced methylene blue (leucomethylene blue) is more effective and crosses the blood brain barrier better. One recipe for reduction is 2 - 2.5 mg vitamin C per mg MB for three hours. IC50 for inhibiting tau filament formation is 4 microM."

"Vienna (and Burkina Faso): What's New With Methylene Blue?
Alzheimer Research Forum
30 July 2009
At ICAD in Vienna, Wischik discussed further analysis of the same Phase 2 trial of RemberTM, his biotech company's patented formulation of methylene blue. Wischik noted in his talk that the company had patented a new form called leuco-methylthioninium or LMT, which is no longer blue and renders the drug more bioavailable and less toxic at higher doses. For their part, Schirmer's group had characterized a reduced white version of methylene blue (called leucoMB or methylene white) as a possibly superior form of this drug for use in a colorless drug syrup to treat malaria (see Buchholz et al., 2008 and Schirmer essay). TauRx's new formulation is presently undergoing preclinical studies. For a detailed first-person account of what happened with the high dose of RemberTM in the Phase 2 trial and related topics..."
alzforum.org/new/detail.asp?id=2203

[comment: there is a hyperlink problem here]

https://www.google.com/patents/CA2697520C?cl=en
"Methylene blue exists in the charged blue oxidised form, and the uncharged colourless reduced leukomethylene blue form. We have shown experimentally in cells that the target tissue concentration in cells required to prevent tau aggregation by 50% (ie the EC50) is 4 M for reduced methylene blue, and that it is the leuko- form which is preferentially active. It is shown by DiSanto and Wagner (1972) that approximately 78% of the methylene blue recovered in urine is in the reduced form, and from anatomical studies following iv administration, the only form which is bound to tissues is the colourless reduced form, which becomes oxidised to the blue colour on exposure to air after post-mortem dissection. The only form of methylene blue which crosses the blood-brain barrier after iv administration is the reduced form (Muller, Acta Anat 1992, 144:39-44 and Becker and Quadbeck, 1952). Therefore, orally absorbed methylene blue is very rapidly reduced in the body, and remains so until excretion, possibly undergoing further chemical modification which stabilises it in a reduced form.
It is highly likely that variability in oral absorbtion is determined largely by the efficiency of initial reduction in the GI
tract. One way to achieve more reliable absorbtion is therefore be to pre-reduce methylene blue with ascorbic acid. We have shown from in vitro studies that this conversion is rather slow, so that it takes 3 hours to achieve 90% reduction of methylene blue in water in the presence of 2x mg ratio of ascorbic acid. Therefore, the dosage of methylene blue which is most likely to ensure reliable absorbtion will be 3.5mg/kg/day of methylene blue pre-reduced for at least 3 hours in the presence of 7 mg/kg/day of ascorbic acid.
It is also possible that MB may be active at lower concentrations in man, and that a range of clinically feasible doses would be therefore 20 mg tds, 50 mg tds or 100 mg tds, combined with 2x mg ratio of ascorbic acid in such a manner as to achieve more than 90%
reduction prior to ingestion."

Patent CA2697520C - Use of lyophilised reduced diaminophenothiazines in the treatment of tau mediated neurological disorders

I have mentioned this in oher threads - for long term administration and benefits (including lifespan extension) about 1mg MB single daily dose is needed to produce 100nM/L concentrations shown to be optimal in the animal studies. Ray has mentioned similar doses as well.
As far as the reduced/oxidized form - the quote from your study says oxidized MB is rapidly reduced in the body. The primary benefits of MB are as an oxidizing agent and for that the oxidized form is needed. As I said, most people are in an excessively reduced state, so oxidizing agents are what stimulates metabolism and promotes health. The reduced form may have some special effects on tau proteins but why would you take the reduced form is the study itself says taking oxidized MB gets rapidly reduced in the body, so it would be able to get to the brain. So, with oxidized MB you get both the benefits of the oxidizing effects and reduced MB as a result, which can then cross the BBB and do what it needs to. Btw, I am not really convinced about that argument for reduced MB being more effective. I think the primary benefit of MB in neurodegenerative disorders is precisely the oxidizing power, the ability to lower NO and ativate cytochrome C activity, and the ability to bypass ETC if some are damaged or not functioning well. Remember, all disease is due to disturbed electron flow and for restoring the electron flow and for restoring that flow the oxidized version is needed. These things are discussed in other threads so if you use Google to search the forum you will find a lot of info. Just Google for "site:raypeatforum.com methylene blue ETC".

 

[R1984]

I have mentioned this in oher threads - for long term administration and benefits (including lifespan extension) about 1mg MB single daily dose is needed to produce 100nM/L concentrations shown to be optimal in the animal studies. Ray has mentioned similar doses as well.
As far as the reduced/oxidized form - the quote from your study says oxidized MB is rapidly reduced in the body. The primary benefits of MB are as an oxidizing agent and for that the oxidized form is needed. As I said, most people are in an excessively reduced state, so oxidizing agents are what stimulates metabolism and promotes health. The reduced form may have some special effects on tau proteins but why would you take the reduced form is the study itself says taking oxidized MB gets rapidly reduced in the body, so it would be able to get to the brain. So, with oxidized MB you get both the benefits of the oxidizing effects and reduced MB as a result, which can then cross the BBB and do what it needs to. Btw, I am not really convinced about that argument for reduced MB being more effective. I think the primary benefit of MB in neurodegenerative disorders is precisely the oxidizing power, the ability to lower NO and ativate cytochrome C activity, and the ability to bypass ETC if some are damaged or not functioning well. Remember, all disease is due to disturbed electron flow and for restoring the electron flow and for restoring that flow the oxidized version is needed. These things are discussed in other threads so if you use Google to search the forum you will find a lot of info. Just Google for "site:raypeatforum.com methylene blue ETC".

ok. Thank you.

 

[johnwester130]

Is this true ?

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/beware-of-the-monstrous-benzoic-acid.96905/

 

[haidut]

Is this true ?

Beware of the monstrous benzoic acid

Well, first of all it is a metabolite of aspirin so I would expect aspirin to cause the same issues but it does not. Second of all, the concentration used was very high.
"...Benzoic acid (10% in petrolatum) was applied to the forearms of healthy volunteers. Blood was obtained from the antecubital vein draining the treated site and assayed for vasodilating prostaglandins and histamine".

Oxidal has 0.1%, so about 100 times lower concentration and also the amount they applied to humans was huge. Most people only use a few drops of Oxidal so it would only be 100mcg+ (0.1mg) of benzoic acid. I doubt anybody's skin would even register this amount, let alone be affected by it in terms of histamine and PGD2.

 

[Anders86]

 

[haidut]

Huh? The MB went into your ear somehow? Was it with Oxidal? Did you put drops in your ear or was it oral route?

 

[Anders86]

Huh? The MB went into your ear somehow? Was it with Oxidal? Did you put drops in your ear or was it oral route?

I`m using from Blue Brain Boost and this happened to me yesterday, only left ear, after a shower. I have a history of chronic ear problems as a child but not lately. Oral route, have used 1mg a couple months, then upped to 5mg x2-3 for a week now. I find it kinda strange, but also funny

 

[haidut]

I`m using from Blue Brain Boost and this happened to me yesterday, only left ear, after a shower. I have a history of chronic ear problems as a child but not lately. Oral route, have used 1mg a couple months, then upped to 5mg x2-3 for a week now. I find it kinda strange, but also funny

So, this happened after only taking 1mg? For how many days?

 

[Anders86]

So, this happened after only taking 1mg? For how many days?

No, I was using 1mg for a couple of month and now last week 10-15mg daily.

 

[Nokoni]

The best several hours of every day are those following my consumption of one drop of Oxidal in an ounce or two of water. My LOL cats are LOLier, my darling kids are darling-er, my girlfriend is girlier, my wife is... Well, you can’t expect miracles.

Methylene Blue (MB), USP: 0.4mg (400mcg)
Caffeine, USP: 0.4mg (400mcg)
Benzoic acid, USP: 0.04mg (40mcg)

Really? That’s it? I dunno. Maybe “methylene blue” is street slang for happy molecules of one sort or another in certain dark corners of Europe. It wouldn’t be the first time a wily merchant put in a little something extra for his customers:

But whatever it is, I sure do like it. (And so far, nothing coming out of my ears :))

 

[haidut]

And so far, nothing coming out of my ears

Lol, thank God!Thanks for the great feedback! I think this is a good mix. I myself place a drop in every Pepsi bottle I consume and each bottle is about 600ml. I find that drinking the Pepsi with the MB makes me calmer and not hyper as it can sometimes do when I drink a full bottle in one sitting.
And yes, those are the ingredients, nothing else secret in there.