Home > Merchants > Merchant Forums > IdeaLabs > Oxidal - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Oxidation Support

Oxidal - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Oxidation Support

  1. There have been a number of discussions on the forum about various compounds that can be used to increase oxygen consumption of the cells and thus improve overall metabolism by increasing CO2 production, reduce lactate and (in some cases) uncouple mitochondria. After some research and experiments, I am please to introduce Oxidal - a supplement that should be able to help with increasing oxygenation and improve metabolic health. More info below, and you can order from the links in my profile signature.

    *************************************************************************************************
    Oxidal is a liquid supplement that supports optimal oxygenation of tissues and cells. Each of the ingredients in Oxidal has been shown increase cellular oxygen consumption, uncouple oxidative metabolism, and thus support more optimal
    cellular health. This is believed to result in improved vitality and energy levels.

    Servings per container: about 240
    Each drop contains the following ingredients:

    Methylene Blue (MB), USP: 0.4mg (400mcg)
    Caffeine, USP: 0.4mg (400mcg)
    Benzoic acid, USP: 0.04mg (40mcg)

    Other ingredients: ethanol (20%), distilled water

    References:
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0014-5793(97)00767-9
    "...The effect of methylene blue on isolated rat liver mitochondria in the presence and absence of chloroacetaldehyde was investigated. Fatty acid oxidation was inhibited by chloroacetaldehyde and subsequently stimulated by methylene blue. Assessment of tightly coupled mitochondria revealed decreasing respiratory control ratios induced by increasing concentrations of methylene blue and methylene blue provoked mitochondrial swelling. In uncoupled mitochondria, methylene blue promoted a concentration-dependent stimulation of respiration. These findings provide evidence that methylene blue, the redox dye currently used as an antidote for encephalopathy associated with alkylating chemotherapy, uncouples oxidative phosphorylation and acts as an electron transfer mediator to stimulate mitochondrial respiration."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3698477/
    "...This work explored the effects on mitochondrial biosynthesis of caffeine and DNP in human rhabdomyosarcoma cells, a model organism for metabolic observation. We show that treatment of muscle cells with caffeine or DNP will induce the PGC-1α mRNA and protein in a dose- and time-sensitive manner. We also demonstrate that caffeine or DNP increases mitochondrial content as well as enhances oxidative and total metabolism. These are the first observations that directly compare caffeine with DNP and demonstrate the effects of both treatments on glycolytic and oxidative metabolism in skeletal muscle cells."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267406/
    "...The wide dynamic range of uncoupling by BHT and benzoic acid provides an excellent starting point for the design of novel uncouplers that could be used to modulate the burning of calories in humans for the treatment of obesity. The production of reactive oxygen species decreases strongly when the mitochondrial protonmotive force is lowered even slightly by uncoupling [39–41]. These uncouplers therefore also present an alternative approach to decreasing radical generation and perhaps treating age-related disorders, particularly since BHT and mitoBHT have antioxidant as well as uncoupling properties."
    **************************************************************************************************


    The ingredients MB and caffeine do not need any introduction, they are well known by the forum members. However, some people may wonder why I added benzoic acid. Well, it looks like benzoic acid had a number of cool properties. First, it uncouples mitochondria in extremely low concentrations (less than 1picoM) and that uncoupling capacity does NOT increase much with dosage. So, it has a very wide range of effectiveness and safety unlike drugs such as DNP which can kill you if you miscalculate the dosage just a bit. Benzoc acid also reduces ammonia in the body and stimulates the urea cycle. This property is helpful since many people suffer from ammonia overload cause by slow metabolism and stress. Finally, benzoic acid is very well absorbed topically and orally and is not known to affect negatively organs like the liver or the digestive system.
    I'd be interested in hearing some comments / thoughts?
     
  2. Thanks!
    They are actually almost the same substance:) Some salycilates metabolize into benzoic acid and maybe this is the reason even 80mg of aspirin daily is enough for cancer prevention.
     
  3. Haidut, are your new supplements available for international orders? I can't find them on the link.
     
  4. How many drops in a serving? 800mcg of methylene blue is quite a lot for me. What is the role of the caffeine?
     
  5. Well, 1% methylene blue solution is standard so I made it that way. I guess when applied topically, you may end up absorbing less.
    Caffeine is dopaminergic and there are some studies showing it may lower plasma serotonin. MB increases serotonin in some people, so I am thinking caffeine would mitigate that effect.
    Finally, I know a person doing research with MB at NIH. He showed me some results suggesting caffeine and MB are synergistic when it comes to cellular oxygenation and caffeine was effective at very low doses provided it was administered together with MB.
     
  6. Oh nice then. Is it in ethanol?
     
  7. Yes, 20% ethanol.
     
  8. Perfect. Is there a recommended dosing schedule? e.g. 10 drops a day with food, in the afternoon.
     
  9. I can't provide specific recommedations on dosage since MB is such a tricky supplement. One drop on the skin should actually result in improved respiration, but some people may need more and some less MB. I strongly suggest starting with no more than 1 drop and working your way up from there.
     
  10. What is the dermal absorption of methylene blue? I tried putting it on my skin and three days later I can just rub it clean off.
     
  11. This study used it topically for stroke and found it was absorbed.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7708136

    The data I have varies but it seems to be absorbable like caffeine topically - i.e. ~20% absorbed over the first hour and then the rest absorbs fully over 24-48 hours unless washed off.
     
  12. This is exciting!

    I have a question, Haidut. I am still having a bloated stomach, mild fatigue and mild joint pain. I suspect SIBO and getting breath tested June 1.

    Can this supplement help me even though my digestive problems are not resolved yet?

    Thank you!
     
  13. Well, MB has been used before for SIBO but the doses were much higher. If you take it topically I don't think it would cause any issues with gut more than you already have. If anything, it may help you control SIBO, if it is indeed SIBO. Higher metabolism should help with gut issues.
     
  14. Thank you Haidut for making these supplements available. Are they available internationally? The link to international orders for your other supps are not showing these newbies. Thanks!
     
  15. Well, I guess I'm going to have to read through that MB thread. Hadn't before because I figured I had enough on my plate to consider taking without throwing fish aquarium dye into the mix; but given how I've summed up my problems as "a lack of physical and mental energy", it seems I should move this to the top of the consideration list.

    Are there any caveats or contraindications about taking this? Like, will this not work or potentially do more harm than good if not supplementing thyroid with it, or something along those lines? I'd like to think this is something I could kind of take a flyer on.

    Anyway, appreciate you, haidut, coming up with interesting, unique supps to consider and offering it for reasonable prices.
     
  16. If anything, it should work synergistically with thyroid. The only precaution I can think of is that in some people MB raises blood pressure due to its MAO-A inhibiting properties, so you may want to watch out for that for the first few days.
     
  17. So, it would be better to be supplementing thyroid with it?

    Wow, it's an MAO-A? I had a tremendous sense of well being for a short time after drinking ayahuasca a handful of times while I was in the Amazon a few years back. I believe ayahuasca is an MAO-A, as well. Could there be mood enhancing properties from the one drop dose or perhaps something that could be achieved by working up to a higher dose?

    EDIT: I just waded through the long thread. Apparently Peat says 1mg has anti-depressant effects, which isn't far off from the 800 mcg you get from the one drop dose of this solution. I'm going to have to take the plunge on this. If this can make me feel even a little bit like I felt in the days and weeks following my ayahuasca use, it will be a revelation-- especially if I can escape the sheer misery of how I felt in the several hours directly under the influence of ayahuasca.
     
  18. Hmm I'm getting about 20mcg of methylparahydroxybenzoate as an excipient with my methylene blue. I wonder if it has a similar effect.
     

  19. I have aspirin allergy that I haven't been able to overcome yet. Just 1 asprin gives me runny nose and sneezing for hours. Do you think that would mean I would be allergic to the benzoic acid also?
     
  20. Not sure, but possible. Most studies with benzoic acid as an uncoupler were done with sodium benzoate.
     
  21. You can try taking some Ceylon cinnamon. It will metabolize into a type of benzoic acid so you will know within 15min.
     
  22. good for hair loss/growth or not ?

    or should I stick with solban for hair ?
     
  23. It's not really meant for hair loss, so I can't in good faith say to use it for that purposes. I don't know of any studies on MB and hair loss. It should not hurt though, improved oxygenation can only help hair follicles.
     
  24. Thanks Haidut. Just for my informtion, what is the upper dose of MB for SIBO?

    Not planning to take oxidal in those doses..just want to know for comparison.

    Thanks
     
  25. I think the quoted dose was 1mg/kg in humans.
     
  26. I'm not suggesting to use or not use it, just adding in some of Peat's view on it.
    I may consider trying it, but may dilute it to get lower doses.
     
  27. How should this actually be taken? I don't worry so much about the skin staining with taking it topically, rather that much of it is going to wash off in the shower before it's actually been absorbed.

    How does the oral absorption compare? I tried one drop in my mouth and managed to stain my tongue pretty convincingly, although it is gone several hours later.
     
  28. Peat has said that when he takes MB he does it topically. Absorption is pretty rapid and I don't think you'll be able to wash it off in the shower. It disappears on its own when it gets reduced by the body in the process of converting NADH back to NAD.
     
  29. How come you recommend mcg doses of MB?

    This study http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295213007417 used 60 mg doses and refer to these as low.

    Quote:
    Whether a beneficial use of low-dose MB in aging populations may be generalized to treat MCI and early AD patients should be investigated. For example, a research group garnered a great deal of media attention after a 2008 Alzheimer’s Association international conference where they presented preliminary data using MB in a study showing that low-dose MB prevented cognitive deterioration in AD patients. Using the trade name of RemberTM, and the MB synonym methylthioninium chloride, MB was given orally at 60 mg three times a day (a low dose of 2.57 mg/kg/day based on a body weight of 70 kg) for 24 months to patients with mild to moderate AD [64]. There was an 81% reduction in the rate of cognitive decline compared to controls after 50 weeks. This is an effect that, if reproducible, would be without precedent in pharmacological interventions against AD. But data from this abstract and meeting presentation should be regarded as preliminary since it has not been published after a peer-reviewed process. The authors suggested that the cognitive benefit of MB on AD patients was linked to prevention of Tau aggregation, based on prior in vitro studies with high-dose MB [65]. Since MB improves cognition only at low doses, while it prevents while it prevents Tau aggregation only at high doses, it is more likely that low-dose MB is acting via mitochondrial respiration mechanisms for neuroprotection and cognitive enhancement, as proposed here (Fig. 1).
     
  30. I don't recommend anything really. I am not a doctor, so people should always consult with their doctor on doses.
    However, if you look at all the threads on this forum about MB and the studies on PubMed, you will see that MB has therapeutic benefit at very low doses (~60mcg). In higher doses it inhibits the MAO-A enzyme and as such can lead to serotonin toxicities in some people. The higher doses are used clinically for people with serious conditions like Alzheimer's and suicidal depression. Actually, the depression treatment used "only" 15mg a day for 2 weeks. So, unless a person has Alzheimer's I don't see a reason for very high doses.
    I suggest you search around the forum for "methylene blue" and read all the threads. There is a lot of discussion about doses, why low vs. high, etc.
     
  31. I see.
    Yeah, MAO-A inhibition is probably not a good thing. Do you know at what dose MB starts to inhibit MAO-A?
    I tried MB and never noticed anything from lower doses unfortunately.
     
  32. There are some studies showing inhibition from a few hundred nanomols. That means MB more than a few milligrams per dose will probably start to inhibit MAO-A but in all likelihood only people taking SSRI drugs or other serotonergic agents will have dangerous additive effects. So, a dose of at most 5mg is probably safe in terms of MAO inhibition. The depression study in humans used 5mg three times a day and I think they did not see any rise in plasma serotonin even though that does not mean much for brain levels.
    Also, keep in mind that half life of MB in the brain has been shown to be on the order of 30 hours, so much much longer than the 5 hour half life in plasma. So, taking MB repeatedly during the day for a few days may reach brain concentrations much higher than what is ever achieved in plasma.
     
  33. Hi Haidut,

    I received my Oxidal today. I know you're not in the business of giving directions for us and encourage self experimentation. I am going to take 1 drop and assess tolerance, but I am wondering how often I should do so. every day? once a week? The staining is a bit of an inconvenience so I am trying to figure out how best to get around that. Thank you for any insight.

    I notice a sense of calm and well being and deeper respiration. Good stuff!
     
  34. Peat said that the optimal effects of MB on mitochondria are from ~1mg doses. This means about 2 drops of Oxidal. Many people take 2 drops before bed to help keep metabolism going through the night. Topical use can be anywhere on a skin and it should not stain once on it has stayed on the skin for about 30sec. The stain should disappear on its own when the MB gets reduced by the local tissues, so no need to wash it off.
     
  35. I have been applying 1-2 drops Oxidal on my stomach every morning after showering for about a week or less since I received it.

    I have noticed that my fatigue is getting better. Much better.

    Can Oxidal have an impact on fatigue and improve energy?
     
  36. Sure, that would be its primary expected effect I'd say - reduce fatigue and improve energy. I should have some nootropic effects as well. In the doses of ~1mg daily it should stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis and increase oxygen consumption within a week. Most people see pronounced benefits after 2 weeks of usage.
     
  37. I just tried my first dose of Oxidal this morning. I noticed a few minutes shortly after application what seemed to be an increase in body temperature that only lasted for a few minutes. I only took one drop, or what I estimate as one drop.

    How long should I stay with the one drop dose or can I titrate up, say an extra drop a day, until I notice something tangible and sustained, good or bad?
     
  38. The human studies claim optimal effects from 15mg MB split into 3 equal doses of 5mg each. However, in such doses MB may inhibit MAO-A and thus increase serotonin. So, you can increase the doses one drop at a time and if you start developing symptoms of serotonin toxicity then back down. The symptoms very but can include fever, anxiety, headache, etc. I personally react best to 10mg split into 2 equal doses of 5mg each. More than that gives me better oxygenation but also I start getting very annoying headaches.
    There is a separate thread on the forum about MB which you can browse for more info.
    viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5344
     
  39. haidut, as someone who's taking a potential MAOI dose, are you off the string cheese? I seem to remember you eat (or ate) a lot of that. I'm just wondering how far you have to carry the tyramine avoidance?

    edit: colas and coffees are supposedly high in tyramine as well. Have you stopped or curbed your use of these?
     
  40. Yes, I try to stay away from these on the days when I take MB.
     
  41. you mean i shouldn't put the mb in my latte's? I guess i usually have it with orange juice and maybe a little vitamin c, but in a pinch into the latte it goes.
     
  42. Wow, what do your lattes look like. :eek:
     
  43. Haha I look like a smurf oh god this is fun
     
  44. [​IMG]
     
  45. @Haidut - How should I take this?

    One drop in a cup of water?

    One drop directly in the mouth?

    One drop on my wrist?

    Thanks!

    Best,
    Jason
     
  46. I tilt my head back so it hits the back of my throat
     
  47. I think 2-3 drops would be optimal as per Peat's statements. He takes it topically so it's probably not a bad idea to do the same. Some people take it orally in juice but try to not take with coffee since it may precipitate a MAO-A toxicity.
     
  48. Consider where you can accommodate blue dye.
    I've started using a little the last 3 weeks, 1 drop on the skin of my foot, and wear black or blue socks (and rinse sock in water before adding to general washing). It takes 2 to 3 days for the colour to fade from my skin (yes, even if I shower and wash feet with water).
    Do those taking it orally get a blue tongue? How long does it last?
    What about on fungus-damaged toenails?
     
  49. Hello everybody,

    We will be on vacation for the next two weeks so won't be able to attend to orders placed between now and July 10. We will attend to those orders on July 11. Rather than shutting the store down like last year we decided to keep it open since the vendor we use for the online store has informed us that closing the store is only allowed if the company is shutting down. As such, we have to keep it open, but please keep in mind the 2 week delay for all orders placed between June 25 and July 10.
    Thank for your understanding and we look forward to resuming work in 2 weeks.
     
  50. On the balls of course, giving blue balls a whole new meaning
     
  51. You're back! Charlie lifted the ban?
     
  52. Apparently so
     
  53. LOL
     
  54. Some people reported curing toenail fungus with Oxidal. I think the red light is needed to get away with lower doses MB. Otherwise you'd need 30mg+ in very dose (oral) to have an effect.
     
  55. In oral doses, do you just put a drop on the tongue or in a glass of liquid?

    I have this lamp, would that be like red light?

    www.amazon.de/Philips-HF3419-01-EnergyU ... rds=HF3419
     
  56. Haidut, do you know anyone who has taken high doses of 30mg?

    That's 30 drops of oxidal, right?
     
  57. Orally, people usually it dissolved in juice or some other non-alcoholic drink. Just make sure it is not coffee or milk.
    The lamp is not red light but it probably has enough red light in the 650nm spectrum to have an effect. No harm in trying it out.
     
  58. I've taken 30mg+ before. Started getting headaches above 60mg daily, and even from 30mg if I eat some tyramine containing food.
     
  59. Thanks, Haidut. I took a couple drops by mouth a few days ago and got a headache that lasted 5 days. I rarely get headaches. This one seemed to shift about depending I was upright or lying down.

    Yesterday I had no headache and again took a couple drops by mouth. No headache, so I will try to increase today.

    I also stopped eating large amount of farmer cheese around the same time, so wonder if the headache was due to reduction (hopefully) in ammonia buildup. My joint pain probably due to ammonia is gone, though muscle stiffness remains.

    I looked up the oxidal label and realized one drop contains only 0.4 mg MB. Also contains equal parts caffeine and something else (sodium benzoate?). Any idea if 30mg is about one teaspoon? Also, would 30mg of benzoate be ok?
     
  60. Aspirin metabolizes into benzoic acid so you should be OK. I would not use more than 15mg Oxidal daily. Most studies with MB show optimal beneficial effects on energy metabolism from 15mg daily. More than that increases serotonin and may have other unknown effects.
     
  61. I am back from vacation so the store is in full operation now.
     
  62. Why are the price of oxidal (and well other also) so high? The price for a lifetime supply (and well beyond) for methylene blue is 5$, why sell it for so high? Confusing to sell peaty products for such a high profit since peat is against the profit system.
     
  63. As I explained in another thread, the main factor in our cost is labor and since the people involved in producing the supplements are not cheap this is the price we have to sell to basically break eve. Not sure where you get your information of huge profit...
    Peat's supplement Progest-E is also not cheap if you look only at the cost of the ingredients. You can get micronized progesterone in pills for a fraction of the cost of Progest-E and vitamin E is so cheap it's not even worth mentioning. So, as is often the case with custom products the cost of ingredients is not the major factor in determining price. As (and if) things grow we will automate more and more of the production and the price will drop. Keep in mind that this is not a Fortune 500 company but an outfit with 5 people working part time.
     
  64. How do you know that peat sets the price of the progest e? Or that he is involved in any way in the production?
     
  65. I'm fairly sure Peat has no financial interest in proget-e. He further distanced himself from the product in an interview after they changed the recipe from the one he recommended.

    It makes sense to me that a lot of the cost of convenient supplements is in the labour of formulating, bottling, packing, etc. Economies of scale can favour the big outfits over small ones, too.
     
  66. Can you tell me what interview it was tara?
    I'd heard this before that Peat had distanced himself and the forumla was changed and I've also heard this wasn't true. Like you, I don't think he's involved directly but I just haven't seen it direct that he distanced himself. So if you can point to the interview this is in, I'd most appreciate it. :hattip
     
  67. I can't remember which one, I'm afraid. I think it was one of the earlier ones I listened too or rea, and I have no system for recalling them. I'm reasonably confident that he said they changed formula to make it cheaper, but that makes it a little less effective. His patent is for 10% progesterone dissolved in vit-E. The current Kenogen Progest-e also has other oil in it, according to the bottle. I think it may be the same same amount of progest-e, but a bit less vit-E, but I'm not sure about that.
    If I come across it again, I'll try to remember to post a link.
     
  68. Thanks tara! I'm happy to at least hear that you heard him say this as I've not come across this verification before so that is very helpful, thanks.
     
  69. I don't know for sure, but as holder of the patent he MAY be getting some royalties from the sales. Otherwise the companies making Protest-E would ask him to sign some sort of disclaimer that says he will ask for no money. Most solid companies producing a product based on patent will either pay royalties or ask for signed disclaimer to protect themselves form being sued. I don't know which is the case with Progest-E.
     
  70. The patent is quite old. How long are they valid for?
     
  71. Did a quick search and found this.
    http://www.uspto.gov/patent/laws-and-re ... calculator
    Didn't have time now to investigate further but good point.

    Sorry for thread jack haidut, will move this portion to new thread about Peat's patent asap.

    Love your supps and prices are fine by me! :mrgreen:
     
  72. Looks like 20 years.

    http://www.ehow.com/about_5075315_long- ... -last.html

    Ray filed in 1984 so unless there was an extension it would be expired.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... PN/4439432

    That said, would be awesome if haidut could get the formula from Ray and start making authentic progest-e again. You probably would have to double your team. :lol:
     
  73. Good to know, thanks!
    Actually, I am about to release a progesterone product but haven't finalized the solvents yet. One option is a mixture of DMSO and ethanol. The absorption is excellent topically and very good orally. I can add some vitamin E, which will improve the oral absorption and bioavailability but it probably won't be in the amounts Progest-E contains. There are actually many products on the market that use tocopherols as solvents and most studies show optimal absorption from using tocopherol in concentrations 0.001% - 0.05% by weight. If I add tocopherols it will probably be no more than 0.05% since the liquid will be fairly transparent and can be applied anywhere without fear of staining or being sticky. I think this is one drawback of Progest-E (just like my Energin) - it does cause staining and the spot remains sticky for several hours so it can't come in contact with clothes.
     
  74. 20 years - yes.
    Peat's patent is available online if you search. It describes the process of dissolving in vit-e, in largish quantities.
    I would personally be picking vit-e over DMSO from a safety point of view.
     
  75. Well, I remember finding and reading it a year or so ago, but having trouble finding it now.
     
  76. May I ask what is the issue with DMSOs afety? There are several topical hormones available in Asian countries and they all have DMSO as a base. If you have a study on safety I would be very interested in reading it. I think Peat said he thinks it's OK but he doesn't know much about it so he is not using it yet.
     
  77. I don't claim any expertise about DMSO. My understanding of DMSO is that it makes it much easier for all sorts of substances to get absorbed through the skin and into tissues, whether those substances are supportive or toxic. That's where my safety concerns come from.

    This is what I wrote in Jennifer's thread a while ago:

    It might be a great medium for someone living and working in a clean environment and not exposed to drugs or herbs or toxic skin and hair care products etc that could cause problems. But I don't think all the people who could benefit from progest-e could be confident about that.
    Do you think my concerns are excessive?
     
  78. I think these are legit concerns for someone working in a polluted environment like hospital, plants, construction, etc and mostly if the product is used topically. When used orally, I think most of these concerns are much lower risk and also the amount of DMSO in a single dose would be in the milligrams range so it should lower the risk even more. Most people that use DMSO use it in grams doses and I can see how it become a concern in helping absorb toxins.
     
  79. [​IMG]
     
  80. Probably also relevant if taking other medications that may have their effects increased, right? May it needs a warning about the DMSO potential to interact with drugs and other bioactive substances?

    I think a lot of people live in environments where they have no idea of the pollutants they are exposed to. I've had the experience of learning that my lovely home grown spray-free veges and eggs may have some not-so-lovely constituents from historic land use.
     
  81. Yes, it would affect medication if taken orally at the same time. I think topical application would be much safer. In fact, DMSO on its own has some interesting properties that I will post about today in separate threads.
     
  82. Found it, and it goes way back to at least '94. :(
    I came across this letter to the Editor in my files just now when I was looking up some info on dosing Progest E for someone. File attached.
    haidut, are you in consultation with Peat by any chance about making an oral progesterone supp?
     
  83. I correspond sometimes with Peat but not on topics of progesterone supplement. However, I do conduct my own experiments and based on blood tests I can attest that progesterone in solution of DMSO and ethanol absorbs at least 5 times better than other products I have tried. So, a 20mg dose of my supplement would be equivalent to 100mg+ dose of various other topical progesterone products on the market. As far as oral supplements, 20mg of my supplement achieves the same blood concentrations as an oral dose of 200mg Prometrium.
    Consequently, I am changing the StressNon supplement as well to be based on DMSO and ethanol. When the progesterone supplement is ready I will make an announcement in a separate thread.
     
  84. Thank you for the further information.
    I have used DMSO with great success (on its own diluted to 50% strength) for knee pain and personally consider it safe for my own use so I am looking forward to the improved absorption in your supps.
     
  85. SWEET!!!
     
  86. Yeah, and since each dose would be just a few drops I do not expect the typical issues with DMSO such as enabling more poison to enter to be much of a concern. Also, the ethanol portion should kill whatever pathogens may be on the skin so that they do not enter with the DMSO.
     
  87. can oxidal be taken orally?
     
  88. Yes, even though officially we can't endorse such method of administration.
     
  89. ok, thanks
     
  90. So i finally got my energin and oxidal the other day. Felt i needed something still because i dont think ive been utilizing all the sugar i eat effectively. Im overweight with estrogenic proportions, frequently depressed and have low energy in general. Plus i work in a stressful environment for 10-12 hrs five days a week. Since i started this job a month ago, throwing heavy boxes on a refrigerated dock under fluorescent lights has taken a toll. Well i started the energin yesterday with split doses and felt a subtle increase in energy. I also tried a drop of MB topically but didnt notice anything drastic. But today i decided to try it orally. I took a drop this morning along with three of my friends and noticed a slight energy improvement. It was the second drop that really did some work around lunch time. Within minutes i started feeling warm and awake. My partner who is seemingly healthy took two drops and noticed warmth and strong motivation shortly after as well. About an hour later my head started to feel uncomfortably warm and i had to drive my pallet jack in the -10 degree freezer for a few passes to cool down. I felt fine after 30 minutes or so. I dont think im taking anymore today but what is really amazing is that this is the first time I've gotten off work and felt zero fatigue. Awesome.
     
  91. [ref]InterrogaOmnia[/ref], :D
     
  92. Excellent! Btw, Oxidal contains both caffeine and benzoic acid, and these in combination with methylene blue can cause uncoupling even in low doses. Hence the sensation of heat to the point of being uncomfortable.
     
  93. I do wear an insulated freezer bib but if i get consistently warm i might have to drop some layers. I was outside for a few minutes getting some sun before i overheated.
     
  94. Peata, you metabolic heat fiend...are you listenin'!? :lol:
     
  95. On longecity they use methylene blue for hair loss

    Are the effects better when combined with dmso ?
     
  96. Yeah, MB works like thyroid/caffeine. So, applying Oxidal (as a diluted solution) to scalp should work as well. There is no DMSO in Oxidal, only water and some ethanol. I have not seen anything published on effects of MB for hairloss (or anything else) when combined with DMSO.
     
  97. Would dmso with methylene blue work in theory