Oxidal - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Oxidation Support

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, May 8, 2015.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    There have been a number of discussions on the forum about various compounds that can be used to increase oxygen consumption of the cells and thus improve overall metabolism by increasing CO2 production, reduce lactate and (in some cases) uncouple mitochondria. After some research and experiments, I am please to introduce Oxidal - a supplement that should be able to help with increasing oxygenation and improve metabolic health. More info below, and you can order from the links in my profile signature.

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    Oxidal is a liquid supplement that supports optimal oxygenation of tissues and cells. Each of the ingredients in Oxidal has been shown increase cellular oxygen consumption, uncouple oxidative metabolism, and thus support more optimal
    cellular health. This is believed to result in improved vitality and energy levels.

    Servings per container: about 240
    Each drop contains the following ingredients:

    Methylene Blue (MB), USP: 0.4mg (400mcg)
    Caffeine, USP: 0.4mg (400mcg)
    Benzoic acid, USP: 0.04mg (40mcg)

    Other ingredients: ethanol (20%), distilled water

    References:
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0014-5793(97)00767-9
    "...The effect of methylene blue on isolated rat liver mitochondria in the presence and absence of chloroacetaldehyde was investigated. Fatty acid oxidation was inhibited by chloroacetaldehyde and subsequently stimulated by methylene blue. Assessment of tightly coupled mitochondria revealed decreasing respiratory control ratios induced by increasing concentrations of methylene blue and methylene blue provoked mitochondrial swelling. In uncoupled mitochondria, methylene blue promoted a concentration-dependent stimulation of respiration. These findings provide evidence that methylene blue, the redox dye currently used as an antidote for encephalopathy associated with alkylating chemotherapy, uncouples oxidative phosphorylation and acts as an electron transfer mediator to stimulate mitochondrial respiration."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3698477/
    "...This work explored the effects on mitochondrial biosynthesis of caffeine and DNP in human rhabdomyosarcoma cells, a model organism for metabolic observation. We show that treatment of muscle cells with caffeine or DNP will induce the PGC-1α mRNA and protein in a dose- and time-sensitive manner. We also demonstrate that caffeine or DNP increases mitochondrial content as well as enhances oxidative and total metabolism. These are the first observations that directly compare caffeine with DNP and demonstrate the effects of both treatments on glycolytic and oxidative metabolism in skeletal muscle cells."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267406/
    "...The wide dynamic range of uncoupling by BHT and benzoic acid provides an excellent starting point for the design of novel uncouplers that could be used to modulate the burning of calories in humans for the treatment of obesity. The production of reactive oxygen species decreases strongly when the mitochondrial protonmotive force is lowered even slightly by uncoupling [39–41]. These uncouplers therefore also present an alternative approach to decreasing radical generation and perhaps treating age-related disorders, particularly since BHT and mitoBHT have antioxidant as well as uncoupling properties."
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    The ingredients MB and caffeine do not need any introduction, they are well known by the forum members. However, some people may wonder why I added benzoic acid. Well, it looks like benzoic acid had a number of cool properties. First, it uncouples mitochondria in extremely low concentrations (less than 1picoM) and that uncoupling capacity does NOT increase much with dosage. So, it has a very wide range of effectiveness and safety unlike drugs such as DNP which can kill you if you miscalculate the dosage just a bit. Benzoc acid also reduces ammonia in the body and stimulates the urea cycle. This property is helpful since many people suffer from ammonia overload cause by slow metabolism and stress. Finally, benzoic acid is very well absorbed topically and orally and is not known to affect negatively organs like the liver or the digestive system.
    I'd be interested in hearing some comments / thoughts?
     
  2. Dan Wich

    Dan Wich Member

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  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks!
    They are actually almost the same substance:): Some salycilates metabolize into benzoic acid and maybe this is the reason even 80mg of aspirin daily is enough for cancer prevention.
     
  4. Filip1993

    Filip1993 Member

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    Haidut, are your new supplements available for international orders? I can't find them on the link.
     
  5. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    How many drops in a serving? 800mcg of methylene blue is quite a lot for me. What is the role of the caffeine?
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Well, 1% methylene blue solution is standard so I made it that way. I guess when applied topically, you may end up absorbing less.
    Caffeine is dopaminergic and there are some studies showing it may lower plasma serotonin. MB increases serotonin in some people, so I am thinking caffeine would mitigate that effect.
    Finally, I know a person doing research with MB at NIH. He showed me some results suggesting caffeine and MB are synergistic when it comes to cellular oxygenation and caffeine was effective at very low doses provided it was administered together with MB.
     
  7. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Oh nice then. Is it in ethanol?
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, 20% ethanol.
     
  9. cantstoppeating

    cantstoppeating Member

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    Perfect. Is there a recommended dosing schedule? e.g. 10 drops a day with food, in the afternoon.
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I can't provide specific recommedations on dosage since MB is such a tricky supplement. One drop on the skin should actually result in improved respiration, but some people may need more and some less MB. I strongly suggest starting with no more than 1 drop and working your way up from there.
     
  11. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    What is the dermal absorption of methylene blue? I tried putting it on my skin and three days later I can just rub it clean off.
     
  12. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    This study used it topically for stroke and found it was absorbed.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7708136

    The data I have varies but it seems to be absorbable like caffeine topically - i.e. ~20% absorbed over the first hour and then the rest absorbs fully over 24-48 hours unless washed off.
     
  13. sunmountain

    sunmountain Member

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    This is exciting!

    I have a question, Haidut. I am still having a bloated stomach, mild fatigue and mild joint pain. I suspect SIBO and getting breath tested June 1.

    Can this supplement help me even though my digestive problems are not resolved yet?

    Thank you!
     
  14. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Well, MB has been used before for SIBO but the doses were much higher. If you take it topically I don't think it would cause any issues with gut more than you already have. If anything, it may help you control SIBO, if it is indeed SIBO. Higher metabolism should help with gut issues.
     
  15. katiekeen

    katiekeen Member

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    Thank you Haidut for making these supplements available. Are they available internationally? The link to international orders for your other supps are not showing these newbies. Thanks!
     
  16. Dean

    Dean Member

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    Well, I guess I'm going to have to read through that MB thread. Hadn't before because I figured I had enough on my plate to consider taking without throwing fish aquarium dye into the mix; but given how I've summed up my problems as "a lack of physical and mental energy", it seems I should move this to the top of the consideration list.

    Are there any caveats or contraindications about taking this? Like, will this not work or potentially do more harm than good if not supplementing thyroid with it, or something along those lines? I'd like to think this is something I could kind of take a flyer on.

    Anyway, appreciate you, haidut, coming up with interesting, unique supps to consider and offering it for reasonable prices.
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    If anything, it should work synergistically with thyroid. The only precaution I can think of is that in some people MB raises blood pressure due to its MAO-A inhibiting properties, so you may want to watch out for that for the first few days.
     
  18. Dean

    Dean Member

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    So, it would be better to be supplementing thyroid with it?

    Wow, it's an MAO-A? I had a tremendous sense of well being for a short time after drinking ayahuasca a handful of times while I was in the Amazon a few years back. I believe ayahuasca is an MAO-A, as well. Could there be mood enhancing properties from the one drop dose or perhaps something that could be achieved by working up to a higher dose?

    EDIT: I just waded through the long thread. Apparently Peat says 1mg has anti-depressant effects, which isn't far off from the 800 mcg you get from the one drop dose of this solution. I'm going to have to take the plunge on this. If this can make me feel even a little bit like I felt in the days and weeks following my ayahuasca use, it will be a revelation-- especially if I can escape the sheer misery of how I felt in the several hours directly under the influence of ayahuasca.
     
  19. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Hmm I'm getting about 20mcg of methylparahydroxybenzoate as an excipient with my methylene blue. I wonder if it has a similar effect.
     
  20. ilovethesea

    ilovethesea Member

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    I have aspirin allergy that I haven't been able to overcome yet. Just 1 asprin gives me runny nose and sneezing for hours. Do you think that would mean I would be allergic to the benzoic acid also?
     
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