Oxalate Toxicity

[Lollipop2]

Wow, that looks delicious!

Thank you @Blossom!

 

[somuch4food]

@Lollipop2 For the cinnamon, wouldn't an infusion of a cinnamon stick in a liquid work?

 

[Lollipop2]

@Lollipop2 For the cinnamon, wouldn't an infusion of a cinnamon stick in a liquid work?

Maybe, but it adds liquid to the recipe right? Sort of like an extract maybe? If you try it let me know!!

 

[somuch4food]

Maybe, but it adds liquid to the recipe right? Sort of like an extract maybe? If you try it let me know!!

Oh, I hadn't noted that your recipe does not call for a liquid. Many recipes do.

I'm almost out of cinnamon powder. I will try sticks next and let you know if it works well.

 

[Lollipop2]

Oh, I hadn't noted that your recipe does not call for a liquid. Many recipes do.

I'm almost out of cinnamon powder. I will try sticks next and let you know if it works well.

Perfect. Thank you - great to all figure out together this oxalate thing. Nice.

 

[Momentum]

@Lollipop2 Your Apple Cake looks and sounds amazing! I've been wanting to try Einkorn flour - now I have a reason.
I've been on this forum for about a month now, trying to solve my "invisible" illness issues. This led to a great rabbit trail on Thiamine, and then yesterday to EONutrition's video on Oxalates. Today I joined the TLO facebook group and find it fascinating and in many areas spot on, majorly helpful, albeit a bit myopic (but aren't we all?). I like, Blossom, am trying not to say too much to friends and family until I have more information, as my health seems to be an ever moving topic for more than 20 years. But I must say it will be difficult to bite my tongue while I watch my grown daughter (with probably the same EDS gene mutation) gorge herself on high oxylate foods convinced her 95% plant based diet is healthy, and her personal choices just happen to be some of the highest of all oxalates. :-(

After spending most of today reading through TLO, I thought surely they must be missing something in regards to dissolving oxalate crystals. So, I popped over here to see if the RPers might have some great science in regards to dissolving the crystals. LOL The detox sounds brutal, and possibly dangerous. Even more so for those with EDS.

I would think if something can dissolve (not chelate) heavy metals then it could also dissolve oxalate crystals. ???

Oh, and on glycine, I started taking 2 teaspoons/day months ago because Dr Deitrich Klinghardt states it will detox glyphosate out of your system. He recommends about 6 months, then dropping off to 1/4-1/2 teaspoon for the rest of your life because our glyphosate load is so high. Seems like a lower slower dose would be prudent along with sufficient B1 and B6.

@Blossom have you found additional supplements helpful in your journey? Binders like charcoal? Seems like these crystals are going to come out of where ever they are at, not just gut.

 

[Momentum]

@Lollipop2 I forgot to mention that on TLO they state that for spices (which are usually quite high in oxalates) that essential oils can be used which are low (usually best to dilute before even attempting in a recipe). Also, even though Ceylon cinnamon doesn't contain coumarin apparently it contains plenty of oxalate :-(

The last 3 months I've been trying to perfect my chai tea recipe, no wonder my pain (and load) has gone through the roof. I began to think maybe it was the coumarin in the cinnamon and kidneys weren't happy, but when I look at the ingredients and my symptoms I'm pretty convinced it's an oxalate issue right down to stabbing eye pain.

 

[Blossom]

have you found additional supplements helpful in your journey?

Only B-complex recently.

 

[Lollipop2]

@Lollipop2 Your Apple Cake looks and sounds amazing! I've been wanting to try Einkorn flour - now I have a reason.
I've been on this forum for about a month now, trying to solve my "invisible" illness issues. This led to a great rabbit trail on Thiamine, and then yesterday to EONutrition's video on Oxalates. Today I joined the TLO facebook group and find it fascinating and in many areas spot on, majorly helpful, albeit a bit myopic (but aren't we all?). I like, Blossom, am trying not to say too much to friends and family until I have more information, as my health seems to be an ever moving topic for more than 20 years. But I must say it will be difficult to bite my tongue while I watch my grown daughter (with probably the same EDS gene mutation) gorge herself on high oxylate foods convinced her 95% plant based diet is healthy, and her personal choices just happen to be some of the highest of all oxalates. :-(

After spending most of today reading through TLO, I thought surely they must be missing something in regards to dissolving oxalate crystals. So, I popped over here to see if the RPers might have some great science in regards to dissolving the crystals. LOL The detox sounds brutal, and possibly dangerous. Even more so for those with EDS.

I would think if something can dissolve (not chelate) heavy metals then it could also dissolve oxalate crystals. ???

Oh, and on glycine, I started taking 2 teaspoons/day months ago because Dr Deitrich Klinghardt states it will detox glyphosate out of your system. He recommends about 6 months, then dropping off to 1/4-1/2 teaspoon for the rest of your life because our glyphosate load is so high. Seems like a lower slower dose would be prudent along with sufficient B1 and B6.

@Blossom have you found additional supplements helpful in your journey? Binders like charcoal? Seems like these crystals are going to come out of where ever they are at, not just gut.

Fascinating story @Momentum and welcome! It is hard not to mention to family etc. urrrgh...but most times they are not ready.

I found some Ceylon cinnamon essential oil that is food safe and plan on trying in my next apple cake. I will drop the Ceylon cinnamon powder to 1/2 tsp and then one tsp (or less) of the essential oil and see how that goes

The dumping is definitely not detoxing like with other toxins. Having enough calcium is working well for me. I use milk as dairy doesn’t bother me AND I have found Aspirin taken with milk to bring relief to some symptoms.

Thank you for reaching out and wishing you a good healing journey.

 

[Momentum]

The dumping is definitely not detoxing like with other toxins. Having enough calcium is working well for me. I use milk as dairy doesn’t bother me AND I have found Aspirin taken with milk to bring relief to some symptoms.

I'm so thankful I tolerate dairy, and that we have access to raw in our state Yummy!
The dumping will be interesting. I've had so many herxes from Lyme, Babesia, etc and they are all a bit different. But I have no idea really, what to expect with ox. Although, I assume it's pretty much how I've been feeling lately since my intake was so high. I do take a pretty much controversial ingredient that has done an incredible job with Lyme, supposedly it also dissolves heavy metals so I'm guessing dissolving oxalate crystals would be on its list as well. I'm really hoping it does, so I've started the protocol again. If it does, then the dumping won't be so bad.

 

[Blossom]

I'm so thankful I tolerate dairy, and that we have access to raw in our state Yummy!
The dumping will be interesting. I've had so many herxes from Lyme, Babesia, etc and they are all a bit different. But I have no idea really, what to expect with ox. Although, I assume it's pretty much how I've been feeling lately since my intake was so high. I do take a pretty much controversial ingredient that has done an incredible job with Lyme, supposedly it also dissolves heavy metals so I'm guessing dissolving oxalate crystals would be on its list as well. I'm really hoping it does, so I've started the protocol again. If it does, then the dumping won't be so bad.

Someone recommended this product as an oxalate binder. I haven’t used it but figured I’d pass along the information.

Restore Promotes Gut-Brain Health | Dr. Formulated - Probiotic & Enzyme Alternative - for Digestive Health, Mood, Weight Loss & Energy Boost, Immune Support, Stress Relief | 2-Month Supply https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DVACA1C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_aPgaEbB4YD0KV

 

[Dave Clark]

Someone recommended this product as an oxalate binder. I haven’t used it but figured I’d pass along the information.

Restore Promotes Gut-Brain Health | Dr. Formulated - Probiotic & Enzyme Alternative - for Digestive Health, Mood, Weight Loss & Energy Boost, Immune Support, Stress Relief | 2-Month Supply https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DVACA1C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_aPgaEbB4YD0KV

Does anyone know what makes this Restore product any different from fulvic acid/humic acid products? It sort of seems like they are about the same thing, only the Restore is expensive to use compared to most fuliv/humic acid products.

 

[Lollipop2]

I'm so thankful I tolerate dairy, and that we have access to raw in our state Yummy!
The dumping will be interesting. I've had so many herxes from Lyme, Babesia, etc and they are all a bit different. But I have no idea really, what to expect with ox. Although, I assume it's pretty much how I've been feeling lately since my intake was so high. I do take a pretty much controversial ingredient that has done an incredible job with Lyme, supposedly it also dissolves heavy metals so I'm guessing dissolving oxalate crystals would be on its list as well. I'm really hoping it does, so I've started the protocol again. If it does, then the dumping won't be so bad.

I think the dumping will get easier over time. Hang tough

 

[Blossom]

fulvic acid/humic acid

I was wondering that too. I’m tagging @Xisca to see if she’s familiar with fulvic/humic acid and oxalates! This is new territory for me and although the product seems slightly gimmicky there could be something helpful about it that I don’t appreciate!

 

[Momentum]

Someone recommended this product as an oxalate binder. I haven’t used it but figured I’d pass along the information.

Restore Promotes Gut-Brain Health | Dr. Formulated - Probiotic & Enzyme Alternative - for Digestive Health, Mood, Weight Loss & Energy Boost, Immune Support, Stress Relief | 2-Month Supply https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DVACA1C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_aPgaEbB4YD0KV

Hmmmm, interesting claims...Not sure why they are comparing to pre and pro biotics? Seems we need them all.
"Allow your NATURAL gut bacteria to thrive! Better than a probiotic, Better than a prebiotic; RESTORE Gut-Brain Health fortifies your gut lining. How? It’s a catalyst for redox signaling which maintains tight junction integrity in the epithelial layer of your stomach lining! "
Interesting regading redox signaling and the epithelial layer. This is only anecdotal, but after a year or two mega dosing iodine, my stomach became much stronger. When I began Lugol's, 1 or 2 two drops even with food would make me nauseous. After a year or two I could take 40 drops with just a sip of water on an empty stomach. Later I was taking 160-200 drops on an empty stomach with water.

I am curious about the shilajit/fulvic/humic acids and oxylates. I purchased Buy Pure Himalayan & Siberian Shilajit a while back to chelate (I think it's mainly the humic acids that chelate heavy metals?), but I'm still wondering if chelating would also chelate oxalate crystals? Considering the dosage is about 2 drops, would one need to be concerned regarding oxylates? I haven't taken it for the last two months, so I know it was not a contributing factor to my rapid decline.

Today is day three of me going from high to almost no ox (I know, I know ;-) hope I'm not sorry). Yesterday, I was loosing all this water I had been holding, it was awesome feeling of relief! A week ago my urine had been cloudy for months, and it smelled chemically and toxic. Then I added 1,600 B1 and 2,000 moly-B about a week or two ago. Had a day or so of urine smelling like "normal" but I think it was still cloudy, huge thyroid improvement. Yesterday, day 2 no ox's, urine was not cloudy and had basically no odor. Same today. My eyes were more sandy this morning, my lips on the inside of my mouth are a bit irritated today, and teeth have been very sensitive to each other for a long time. I'm using MSM drops in my eyes, along with another product in eyes, mouth, sinus and ears.

The theory regarding oxalates accumulating in injuries is interesting. I have two fairly recent frost bite areas. After my shower this morning, they were bright red, the area is normally more purple. The pain in that area has been awful the last few months.

 

[Blossom]

Hmmmm, interesting claims...Not sure why they are comparing to pre and pro biotics? Seems we need them all.
"Allow your NATURAL gut bacteria to thrive! Better than a probiotic, Better than a prebiotic; RESTORE Gut-Brain Health fortifies your gut lining. How? It’s a catalyst for redox signaling which maintains tight junction integrity in the epithelial layer of your stomach lining! "
Interesting regading redox signaling and the epithelial layer. This is only anecdotal, but after a year or two mega dosing iodine, my stomach became much stronger. When I began Lugol's, 1 or 2 two drops even with food would make me nauseous. After a year or two I could take 40 drops with just a sip of water on an empty stomach. Later I was taking 160-200 drops on an empty stomach with water.

I am curious about the shilajit/fulvic/humic acids and oxylates. I purchased Buy Pure Himalayan & Siberian Shilajit a while back to chelate (I think it's mainly the humic acids that chelate heavy metals?), but I'm still wondering if chelating would also chelate oxalate crystals? Considering the dosage is about 2 drops, would one need to be concerned regarding oxylates? I haven't taken it for the last two months, so I know it was not a contributing factor to my rapid decline.

Today is day three of me going from high to almost no ox (I know, I know ;-) hope I'm not sorry). Yesterday, I was loosing all this water I had been holding, it was awesome feeling of relief! A week ago my urine had been cloudy for months, and it smelled chemically and toxic. Then I added 1,600 B1 and 2,000 moly-B about a week or two ago. Had a day or so of urine smelling like "normal" but I think it was still cloudy, huge thyroid improvement. Yesterday, day 2 no ox's, urine was not cloudy and had basically no odor. Same today. My eyes were more sandy this morning, my lips on the inside of my mouth are a bit irritated today, and teeth have been very sensitive to each other for a long time. I'm using MSM drops in my eyes, along with another product in eyes, mouth, sinus and ears.

The theory regarding oxalates accumulating in injuries is interesting. I have two fairly recent frost bite areas. After my shower this morning, they were bright red, the area is normally more purple. The pain in that area has been awful the last few months.

Thank you for sharing your experience! I went from high to almost no ox as well abruptly in the spring of this year. My original source for low oxalate information did not stress any type of gradual reduction so I did not know any better! I personally have been very low oxalate about 8 months now and never used anything to help with detox other than small amounts of dark chocolate early on to mitigate dumping symptoms. I feel fine now as long as I continue to avoid consuming oxalate. The two times since August that I’ve had oxalate (black tea and dark chocolate) it only made me feel worse and old symptoms returned so I think it’s important to monitor our own response to things above all else.

 

[Lollipop2]

Thank you for sharing your experience! I went from high to almost no ox as well abruptly in the spring of this year. My original source for low oxalate information did not stress any type of gradual reduction so I did not know any better! I personally have been very low oxalate about 8 months now and never used anything to help with detox other than small amounts of dark chocolate early on to mitigate dumping symptoms. I feel fine now as long as I continue to avoid consuming oxalate. The two times since August that I’ve had oxalate (black tea and dark chocolate) it only made me feel worse and old symptoms returned so I think it’s important to monitor our own response to things above all else.

Interesting how you noticed symptoms return with consumption after being low. I am starting to understand this in my own system. This is such a fascinating experience especially since I have used tea and dark chocolate for years and years and never had a reaction.

 

[Blossom]

Interesting how you noticed symptoms return with consumption after being low. I am starting to understand this in my own system. This is such a fascinating experience especially since I have used tea and dark chocolate for years and years and never had a reaction.

It’s great to hear of someone having the same experience although I’m sorry that oxalate effects you negatively. It still blows me away that so many common foods and drinks can be so harmful.

 

[Xisca]

I would have loved to test restore but I will not pay the 60€ they ask at the customs! And we should not know at the last moment, and iherb lost a customer, boycot them please!
I bought another product elsewhere, that I cannot get, and they imidiately gave me my money back without even asking...

I was wondering that too. I’m tagging @Xisca to see if she’s familiar with fulvic/humic acid and oxalates! This is new territory for me and although the product seems slightly gimmicky there could be something helpful about it that I don’t appreciate!

No idea i am not familiar either with it...

Interesting how you noticed symptoms return with consumption after being low. I am starting to understand this in my own system. This is such a fascinating experience especially since I have used tea and dark chocolate for years and years and never had a reaction.

There is something wrong we have to understand... We should get symptoms only when we have passed our storage capacity! So why after unstoring, do we have imidiate symptoms?

Momentum, take a lot of lemon juice of citrates, it helps the dumping.
The issue is what we have in bones and stored with mercury or other metals. If we chelate, then what happens? Can they attach again and store again elsewhere? Oxalate in the blood cross everything easily, back and forh sometimes, between blood and kidneys and intestine.
We have an unknown variable that has not been studied enough, oxalate and metals. Also oxalate and molds in our body, that make oxalate...

 

[Lollipop2]

There is something wrong we have to understand... We should get symptoms only when we have passed our storage capacity! So why after unstoring, do we have imidiate symptoms?

This is smart Xisca. I only started lowering oxalates two months ago. My guess for myself is I still have a bunch stored.

BTW...I only eat whole chocolate now and my body loves it!