Overwhelming Emotional Stress After Breakup

[Jon]

dont chase, replace

 

[Waynish]

 

[Ashoka]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, thats especially true of break-ups. We always look for other people to fill the hole in our soul, then when it ends the pain of that emptiness becoming exposed again will flare up to become fare more intense than before the relationship started. But feeling that emptiness more strongly than ever is also an opportunity for growth, because in feeling that pain and surviving the pain you might begin learn that you are capable of filling that hole yourself and that you dont need someone else to be complete. The end result if you learn to meet this pain with self-compassion, is that you'll be slightly less needy and more self-sufficient the next time someone comes into your life, and less likely to start or continue a dysfunctional relationship based on a need for someone to validate your self-worth.

People with deep-seated emotional wounds subconsciously seek out other people that will rip those wounds open and bring them up into the light so that they have the possibility to deal with them. Intimate relationships with other people is how we grow as persons and this is how you should view the break-up - just be grateful for the opportunity to grow and become stronger, since you initiated the breakup there's likely some part of you that realised this is just what you needed to evolve. Every time you think about her with some other guy and feel that stabbing pain of loneliness and despair in your chest - dont fight it, rather welcome the opportunity to deal with your pain and treat it with self-compassion. The greater the feeling of loss, the greater the opportunity for growth.

I missed your comment somehow. I appreciate viewing it as a possibility for growth. I think in the past I dealt with breakups by trying to become better at dating, and also slowly realizing it was possible to move on (although I always suffer magnitudes longer than I should). I had success with that. Dealing with this particular loss makes me think I have to totally change how I think about life and relationships. Now the question opened up is about satisfaction and expectations, and unfortunately, whether or not I’m currently capable of a loving, meaningful relationship, because none of my relationships sustained that character. It’s a more complex question that requires much more experience. Is it because I meet the wrong people, am avoidant, am deeply unhealthy, or lack a sense of purpose? I guess the particular answer isn’t as important as fixing the situation simultaneously. Whether I can find a sense of satisfaction in my life without another significant other is another separate question.

 

[Dhair]

I believe my dopamine is messed up big time. I thought about trying tyrosine, p5p, theanine. Some combination like that. But honestly it’s just going to be like a bandaid covering a broken limb. I have PFS and Lyme disease and they both have serious neurological implications. PFS interferes with GABA, DHT, and allopregnanolone in the brain.

I also notice in rare moments of acceptance of the situation, however, like when I feel like I made the right choice to walk away I feel at peace very quickly for a short while until I start thinking differently a few hours later.



Thanks. I’m not really in a great position to date, and if I did it could intensify my regret if I felt myself comparing everyone I met to her. I don’t really know what the answer is.

I’ve taken cypro almost every day for over a year. I’m not sure it’s good for the dopamine issues. I have tianeptine sulfate, but I’m concerned about causing liver damage. I also heard mirtazapine can affect the heart. I could consider lisuride and 5a-DHP. Don’t know much about Adamantane yet.



Is it worth being concerned about the heart-related issues with mirtazapine? I didn’t know it helped with weight loss.



I’ve gotten myself stuck because I ended the relationship and I still suffer ambivalence. It’s like I can’t decide if it was actually a good decision or not and there’s no real clarity. I think I may have had ROCD (Relationship OCD) and proceeded to catastrophize and pull away in moments that didn’t make sense. I wasn’t looking for what was working but what wasn’t. I relied on a “gut instinct” that things were wrong, because people generally tell you to go with your gut on these things, but those instincts are often a result of past experiences. I’ve had panic disorder and I know my response to anxiety seems to make me distort the severity of situations. I’ve come to realize I probably have an avoidant personality. I also probably have dopamine related issues that led me to feel dissatisfied. When you have all these problems going on at once, it’s hard to tell right or wrong.

Mirtazapine is appetite-stimulating. It will help you gain weight and it can reverse learned helplessness due to its anti-serotonin effects. Your PCP may even prescribe it if you describe what you're currently dealing with. It's a safe drug.
The fibrosis issues would only be a problem with long-term use. It would probably take years to cause serious issues, but I'd ask a doctor about that if it's a concern that you have.
Being significantly underweight might eventually make your symptoms unbearable. I would take action now. For myself, taking something like pregnenolone or anti-serotonin drugs can dramatically change my perception and the nature of my thoughts. As Peat says, our environment influences our hormones, and our hormones influence how we interact with our environment.
It sounds like the worst of your health problems were well behind you not too long ago. You should consider yourself lucky. I'm still suffering badly from PFS, and I am unable to live a normal life, but I have found a few useful tools that prevent me from becoming suicidal and completely dissociated.
Your fear of being alone is understandable, but it's also completely irrational. Did you have a feeling of longing and desperation to constantly be involved in serious relationships your entire life? I highly doubt it. If your concern might be a lack of purpose, then that is where your answer lies. A female isn't going to help you find that or make you complete. Life isn't a romantic comedy.

 

[Ashoka]

Mirtazapine is appetite-stimulating. It will help you gain weight and it can reverse learned helplessness due to its anti-serotonin effects. Your PCP may even prescribe it if you describe what you're currently dealing with. It's a safe drug.
The fibrosis issues would only be a problem with long-term use. It would probably take years to cause serious issues, but I'd ask a doctor about that if it's a concern that you have.
Being significantly underweight might eventually make your symptoms unbearable. I would take action now. For myself, taking something like pregnenolone or anti-serotonin drugs can dramatically change my perception and the nature of my thoughts. As Peat says, our environment influences our hormones, and our hormones influence how we interact with our environment.
It sounds like the worst of your health problems were well behind you not too long ago. You should consider yourself lucky. I'm still suffering badly from PFS, and I am unable to live a normal life, but I have found a few useful tools that prevent me from becoming suicidal and completely dissociated.
Your fear of being alone is understandable, but it's also completely irrational. Did you have a feeling of longing and desperation to constantly be involved in serious relationships your entire life? I highly doubt it. If your concern might be a lack of purpose, then that is where your answer lies. A female isn't going to help you find that or make you complete. Life isn't a romantic comedy.

Thanks for the details on mirtazapine and pregnenolone. What else helps you? I’ve barely ever taken anything for PFS because I felt I needed to get calories up first before taking anything, and I always had an issue with eating. First I had a hiatal hernia type thing for over a year, then Lyme disease (made eating actually painful), and finally this.

What I said was I felt I was on the road to significant improvement before and partly during the relationship. In fact, the intimacy was improving my sex drive a lot. But I still had brain fog, memory trouble, depression, mood swings and obsessive negative thoughts, low libido. It’s hard to tell what’s PFS and what’s just living like a dumbass though, but PFS is there. I just felt the improvements coming before. My libido has gotten better over the years (it’s been four and a half years) despite the countless bizarre hurdles.

It’s not a fear of being alone. I’m not a person who gravitates towards relationships all the time. I thought this one was really important, but I could never get to the bottom of what felt missing even though my partner was definitely special.

 

[Dhair]

Thanks for the details on mirtazapine and pregnenolone. What else helps you? I’ve barely ever taken anything for PFS because I felt I needed to get calories up first before taking anything, and I always had an issue with eating. First I had a hiatal hernia type thing for over a year, then Lyme disease (made eating actually painful), and finally this.

What I said was I felt I was on the road to significant improvement before and partly during the relationship. In fact, the intimacy was improving my sex drive a lot. But I still had brain fog, memory trouble, depression, mood swings and obsessive negative thoughts, low libido. It’s hard to tell what’s PFS and what’s just living like a dumbass though, but PFS is there. I just felt the improvements coming before. My libido has gotten better over the years (it’s been four and a half years) despite the countless bizarre hurdles.

It’s not a fear of being alone. I’m not a person who gravitates towards relationships all the time. I thought this one was really important, but I could never get to the bottom of what felt missing even though my partner was definitely special.

What about labs?
I wouldn't rule out some kind of hormone replacement therapy. Despite what some people say on forums, testosterone replacement therapy can and has worked for post finasteride people.
Have you ever tried penicillin? I think it does some interesting things for me.
The post finasteride guys on the Hackstasis forum are experimenting with different things, but I think you should tackle the Lyme and make sure your vitamin D status is good before trying something like Ru486/Ella.
The good news is that you already have identified what is now your most serious problem, which is being underweight.
Odds are you will eat more and gain weight on mirtazapine, whether you think you'll want to or not. The drug doesn't care if you don't like eating. You'll just eat.
I haven't experimented extensively with mirtazapine, but I really think you should ask your doctor about it.

 

[Ashoka]

What about labs?
I wouldn't rule out some kind of hormone replacement therapy. Despite what some people say on forums, testosterone replacement therapy can and has worked for post finasteride people.
Have you ever tried penicillin? I think it does some interesting things for me.
The post finasteride guys on the Hackstasis forum are experimenting with different things, but I think you should tackle the Lyme and make sure your vitamin D status is good before trying something like Ru486/Ella.
The good news is that you already have identified what is now your most serious problem, which is being underweight.
Odds are you will eat more and gain weight on mirtazapine, whether you think you'll want to or not. The drug doesn't care if you don't like eating. You'll just eat.
I haven't experimented extensively with mirtazapine, but I really think you should ask your doctor about it.

I haven’t had labs in nearly two years. I’m due for some and could even do it next week.

Well that’s good to know about mirtazapine. Cypro used to help me eat but not so much now. I’m not sure it does much of anything really. It’s probably time to try something else, if my doctor is open to it.

There’s TRT, but wouldn’t it make more sense to try something like progesterone + androsterone or DHT? I’ve honestly wanted to try that for practically four years but never had the chance. The HackStasis approaches are helping people. I think it’s right to say there’s no point for me to be concerned with it right now though. The best Lyme treatment for me was time and slowly increasing calories. But the pain made it hard. If I would’ve known about low-dose naltrexone earlier it may have saved me from that because it helps with that I’ve heard.

 

[Ashoka]

Thanks.

 

[Dhair]

I haven’t had labs in nearly two years. I’m due for some and could even do it next week.

Well that’s good to know about mirtazapine. Cypro used to help me eat but not so much now. I’m not sure it does much of anything really. It’s probably time to try something else, if my doctor is open to it.

There’s TRT, but wouldn’t it make more sense to try something like progesterone + androsterone or DHT? I’ve honestly wanted to try that for practically four years but never had the chance. The HackStasis approaches are helping people. I think it’s right to say there’s no point for me to be concerned with it right now though. The best Lyme treatment for me was time and slowly increasing calories. But the pain made it hard. If I would’ve known about low-dose naltrexone earlier it may have saved me from that because it helps with that I’ve heard.

There's no blueprint for fixing this stuff, so always keep that in mind. I'm sure you know that by now, but like you said, you haven't done much experimenting.
I think testosterone is important, even if it is just a prohormone for DHT. I think the androgens are responsible for regulating cortisol, and we know more what to expect from a supraphysiological dose of T than we do from DHT or androsterone, simply because there is more research available. So it may be beneficial to work with a clinic that has successfully treated PFS people (yes, they're out there) so that they can tell you roughly what you can expect. I haven't seen many people report that androsterone + progesterone was sustainable for them.
I'm going to try to make testosterone + HCG work for me and add in pregnenolone and maybe progesterone when the time is right. My response to most things is inconsistent, but there is a very specific mental feeling that is missing for me, a lack of "flow" to things visually, that only comes back with some androgenic things or by stimulating the testes directly. The depersonalization, depression, and insane anxiety completely went away for me when I first used tyromix on the testes, but I could not keep doing this, and eventually I lost my sensitivity to thyroid completely. Very frustrating but positive learning experience.
From everything I've tried, I've concluded that at least for myself, PFS isn't a permanent insensitivity to androgens. I did use testosterone for 2 months and didn't notice anything, but there were other factors at play there, so I'm planning to give it one more shot.

Anyway, I think labs should also be a top priority for you right now.

 

[Broken man]

Ohhh, so much advice here so I will add my too. I am after break up too. I would start with health first. Why? Because you are already in a bad shape. When you have bad health, everything will be worse. I think about my body like its my shield, the tougher it is, the better. You need tough body against stressess of the day, I think you got it. After fixing your issues, I think you have 2 choices. First is to forget. Second is to find the root of your pain. First method is easier but with the risk that it will bounce back to you after few months. Second is harder from start but I think its better overall. The biggest problems of every individual on this planet are to see things clearly and comfort state I think. Children see things clearly and that is reason why they are so cruel sometimes. To find the root of your pain, you need to see things clearly and be honest with yourself. Why do you have so much pain? Is it because it was your fault or you think that it was your fault? Is it because you really loved her? Or is it because you think that you will not find better girl? That you will must do something that you really dont want to do? Alot of people are scared of break up just because they are too comfort to start the process of finding another one again. For example, when it happened to me, I was very obese but I didnt notice it while I was with my ex girlfriend. I had depression and other things until I started to see things in new light. So I did everything that I could do to fix my problems and changed myself. I turned from fatty guy to somebody like Zyzz, hope you will google him just for idea. But even improving your health and life will have side effects but that is another story. So its really easy, fix your problems and you will be okay. For some practical steps, what I would do is to buy ATP supplement like inosine or something like this. You will get huge boost of energy and will be able to change things faster. Serotonin antagonist like cypro. You will see things more clearly and lastly book called "How to think like Einstein" by Scott Thorpe. Dont be decieved by the name of the book, its only marketing move. The reason why I am recommending this book is that its fast and easy read about how humans really think and how you can improve it. Good luzck man.

 

[A. squamosa]

Heartbreak is truly horrible. The only way you'll ever be able to move forward is by accepting that the relationship is over, and letting it go. The support of a kind and empathetic friend(s) who cares about you will be invaluable. Expressing yourself is important, let it out, writing, crying, and so on. Sometimes it takes a long time to recover from something like this; give yourself the time, and be kind to yourself. Being kind to yourself includes being as social as you can manage, keeping your arrangements/meetings, eating well, showing up to work, enjoying some sunshine, but also knowing when you need a moment to let some sadness out.

Don't listen to silly things like 'women are like this and do this' or 'real men react like this'; simplistic stereotyping won't help you, it helps nothing at all. Most of all, be wary of advice from strangers on the internet; use your critical faculties before following or listening to any of it!

Take care.

 

[Ashoka]

There's no blueprint for fixing this stuff, so always keep that in mind. I'm sure you know that by now, but like you said, you haven't done much experimenting.
I think testosterone is important, even if it is just a prohormone for DHT. I think the androgens are responsible for regulating cortisol, and we know more what to expect from a supraphysiological dose of T than we do from DHT or androsterone, simply because there is more research available. So it may be beneficial to work with a clinic that has successfully treated PFS people (yes, they're out there) so that they can tell you roughly what you can expect. I haven't seen many people report that androsterone + progesterone was sustainable for them.
I'm going to try to make testosterone + HCG work for me and add in pregnenolone and maybe progesterone when the time is right. My response to most things is inconsistent, but there is a very specific mental feeling that is missing for me, a lack of "flow" to things visually, that only comes back with some androgenic things or by stimulating the testes directly. The depersonalization, depression, and insane anxiety completely went away for me when I first used tyromix on the testes, but I could not keep doing this, and eventually I lost my sensitivity to thyroid completely. Very frustrating but positive learning experience.
From everything I've tried, I've concluded that at least for myself, PFS isn't a permanent insensitivity to androgens. I did use testosterone for 2 months and didn't notice anything, but there were other factors at play there, so I'm planning to give it one more shot.

Anyway, I think labs should also be a top priority for you right now.

I understand exactly what you mean about the iterruptuon of the visual flow. It was one of the most characteristic signs of brain fog and one of the weirdest things to experience at first. It’s gotten better over time but not nearly enough. God just thinking about it makes me want to get off my **** and do something - so frustrating! I’m glad you managed to find momentary relief from that. There’s also the electrolyte and mineral protocols on hackstasis that seem simple enough. It’s just a matter of getting a hair test.

Ohhh, so much advice here so I will add my too. I am after break up too. I would start with health first. Why? Because you are already in a bad shape. When you have bad health, everything will be worse. I think about my body like its my shield, the tougher it is, the better. You need tough body against stressess of the day, I think you got it. After fixing your issues, I think you have 2 choices. First is to forget. Second is to find the root of your pain. First method is easier but with the risk that it will bounce back to you after few months. Second is harder from start but I think its better overall. The biggest problems of every individual on this planet are to see things clearly and comfort state I think. Children see things clearly and that is reason why they are so cruel sometimes. To find the root of your pain, you need to see things clearly and be honest with yourself. Why do you have so much pain? Is it because it was your fault or you think that it was your fault? Is it because you really loved her? Or is it because you think that you will not find better girl? That you will must do something that you really dont want to do? Alot of people are scared of break up just because they are too comfort to start the process of finding another one again. For example, when it happened to me, I was very obese but I didnt notice it while I was with my ex girlfriend. I had depression and other things until I started to see things in new light. So I did everything that I could do to fix my problems and changed myself. I turned from fatty guy to somebody like Zyzz, hope you will google him just for idea. But even improving your health and life will have side effects but that is another story. So its really easy, fix your problems and you will be okay. For some practical steps, what I would do is to buy ATP supplement like inosine or something like this. You will get huge boost of energy and will be able to change things faster. Serotonin antagonist like cypro. You will see things more clearly and lastly book called "How to think like Einstein" by Scott Thorpe. Dont be decieved by the name of the book, its only marketing move. The reason why I am recommending this book is that its fast and easy read about how humans really think and how you can improve it. Good luzck man.

Hey man, glad to hear your story. I’ve seen Zyzz’s photo plastered around online for years. I really think my health played a huge role in this, which is sad. I do partly blame myself, but the truth is I don’t know. I feel like I may not meet someone else I like as much, and that I’m probably not in the right place for a relationship unfortunately. I’m not bringing my best self to the table and I know I feel a floating, directionless feeling due to lack of purpose. I just have a hunch that my health plays a large role as well. I see everything through a depressed person’s eyes. Everything feels lacking, and that feeling temporarily lifted when I first started dating and then dipped. I know improving health can do wonders to alter that feeling. When you say you started seeing things in a different light, that was due to changing your health?

 

[Dhair]

I understand exactly what you mean about the iterruptuon of the visual flow. It was one of the most characteristic signs of brain fog and one of the weirdest things to experience at first. It’s gotten better over time but not nearly enough. God just thinking about it makes me want to get off my **** and do something - so frustrating! I’m glad you managed to find momentary relief from that. There’s also the electrolyte and mineral protocols on hackstasis that seem simple enough. It’s just a matter of getting a hair test.



Hey man, glad to hear your story. I’ve seen Zyzz’s photo plastered around online for years. I really think my health played a huge role in this, which is sad. I do partly blame myself, but the truth is I don’t know. I feel like I may not meet someone else I like as much, and that I’m probably not in the right place for a relationship unfortunately. I’m not bringing my best self to the table and I know I feel a floating, directionless feeling due to lack of purpose. I just have a hunch that my health plays a large role as well. I see everything through a depressed person’s eyes. Everything feels lacking, and that feeling temporarily lifted when I first started dating and then dipped. I know improving health can do wonders to alter that feeling. When you say you started seeing things in a different light, that was due to changing your health?

I'm skeptical of the mineral balancing protocols. I doubt hair testing is very accurate, and the recoveries involving that method didn't seem to involve hair tests. Using something like Ru486 makes more sense to me, and we can also know for sure why it is working. Obviously there are more things to try, but in general I think people are experimenting with things and not asking the right questions. Everyone has a different path out of it, and I honestly believe that the people who recover are the ones with supportive friends and family. I think this may be why my recovery is stagnating.

 

[Ashoka]

I'm skeptical of the mineral balancing protocols. I doubt hair testing is very accurate, and the recoveries involving that method didn't seem to involve hair tests. Using something like Ru486 makes more sense to me, and we can also know for sure why it is working. Obviously there are more things to try, but in general I think people are experimenting with things and not asking the right questions. Everyone has a different path out of it, and I honestly believe that the people who recover are the ones with supportive friends and family. I think this may be why my recovery is stagnating.

Well from what I saw they at least seem rather simple to try. But I haven’t done as much research as you have. They’re still working hard to test and see what works and what doesn’t.

I’m sure you’ve seen this thread -Post Finasteride
Towards the bottom someone talks about a near recovery from weight training, a lot of 5ar enhancers, and use of supplements inspired by Peat’s work: androsterone, dhea, b1, vitamin d, creatine, etc. I found it inspiring because it at least fits into an understanding of health and hormones I’m used to by now.

 

[mayweatherking]

There's no blueprint for fixing this stuff, so always keep that in mind. I'm sure you know that by now, but like you said, you haven't done much experimenting.
I think testosterone is important, even if it is just a prohormone for DHT. I think the androgens are responsible for regulating cortisol, and we know more what to expect from a supraphysiological dose of T than we do from DHT or androsterone, simply because there is more research available. So it may be beneficial to work with a clinic that has successfully treated PFS people (yes, they're out there) so that they can tell you roughly what you can expect. I haven't seen many people report that androsterone + progesterone was sustainable for them.
I'm going to try to make testosterone + HCG work for me and add in pregnenolone and maybe progesterone when the time is right. My response to most things is inconsistent, but there is a very specific mental feeling that is missing for me, a lack of "flow" to things visually, that only comes back with some androgenic things or by stimulating the testes directly. The depersonalization, depression, and insane anxiety completely went away for me when I first used tyromix on the testes, but I could not keep doing this, and eventually I lost my sensitivity to thyroid completely. Very frustrating but positive learning experience.
From everything I've tried, I've concluded that at least for myself, PFS isn't a permanent insensitivity to androgens. I did use testosterone for 2 months and didn't notice anything, but there were other factors at play there, so I'm planning to give it one more shot.

Anyway, I think labs should also be a top priority for you right now.

testosterone isnt the cure... many people have done it.. i think digestion is probably at the most probable issue

 

[Dhair]

testosterone isnt the cure... many people have done it.. i think digestion is probably at the most probable issue

There is no "cure" and there will never be one.
I'm sorry, but if you believe testosterone hasn't helped post finasteride people, you're just wrong. I can show you the recovery stories.
Here is the problem with the post finasteride "community." The same small group of people has been incessantly posting about this problem for years and years. On PH , SolvePFS, etc. You need to pay attention to how many people are actively participating on those forums. IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE posting over and over again. FOR. YEARS.
I don't doubt that thousands of people have been hurt by this drug , but my feeling is that most of them recover.
We can never know what is going on in other people's lives, so you really need to take everything that is written, positive or negative, with a grain of salt.
There is no magic bullet, that's true. But the overanalysis and construction of labyrinthine theories when it comes to this issue has really gotten out of hand.

 

[Ashoka]

There was a guy on PH who crashed and helped people with hormones including testosterone replacement. His name was JustQuitDut or something. I don’t know what ended up happening because I didn’t follow up on him or the people he helped, but it seems like he may have solved his issues, albeit in an extreme manner. He was definitely also touted thyroid as something that really helped him, and he was taking an abnormally high amount of it.

 

[Dhair]

There was a guy on PH who crashed and helped people with hormones including testosterone replacement. His name was JustQuitDut or something. I don’t know what ended up happening because I didn’t follow up on him or the people he helped, but it seems like he may have solved his issues, albeit in an extreme manner. He was definitely also touted thyroid as something that really helped him, and he was taking an abnormally high amount of it.

I stay away from those forums like the plague, but I know who you are talking about. He also used vitex and some other things. Of course the people on PH told him he obviously didn't have "real PFS" or some variation of that, which is their go-to response to anyone who improves in any way.
Those forums are poisonous.
JoeKool is someone from this forum and Hackstasis who is having success with testosterone right now.

 

[Ashoka]

I stay away from those forums like the plague, but I know who you are talking about. He also used vitex and some other things. Of course the people on PH told him he obviously didn't have "real PFS" or some variation of that, which is their go-to response to anyone who improves in any way.
Those forums are poisonous.
JoeKool is someone from this forum and Hackstasis who is having success with testosterone right now.

He totally had it and it destroyed him. He lost all his physique and lost his attraction to women. He was just crazy with hormones and worked in some kind of anti-aging industry, which led him down his path of destruction in the first place. lol

 

[mayweatherking]

There is no "cure" and there will never be one.
I'm sorry, but if you believe testosterone hasn't helped post finasteride people, you're just wrong. I can show you the recovery stories.
Here is the problem with the post finasteride "community." The same small group of people has been incessantly posting about this problem for years and years. On PH , SolvePFS, etc. You need to pay attention to how many people are actively participating on those forums. IT'S THE SAME PEOPLE posting over and over again. FOR. YEARS.
I don't doubt that thousands of people have been hurt by this drug , but my feeling is that most of them recover.
We can never know what is going on in other people's lives, so you really need to take everything that is written, positive or negative, with a grain of salt.
There is no magic bullet, that's true. But the overanalysis and construction of labyrinthine theories when it comes to this issue has really gotten out of hand.

sorry i didnt mean cure in the traditional sense, like take this one thing and then you are cured, i meant more as treatment. i mean, yeah testosterone could help, but it's not really the root cause of the problem, i mean, the ray peat principles are pretty clear, can you eat the diet without gaining weight or keeping estrogen low or increasing libido? milk should really be able to help if you can digest it, but therein lies the problem, the digestion is really messed up where certain foods cause problems.