Overwhelmed And Underwhelmed By Life. Simultaneously

[Prosper]

Anyway, I can understand where you are coming from. I have had rumination as well. Doing a vitamin C flush seems to help. Could be a gut bacteria. I also take cyproheptadine for my serotonin problems.

Cypro is unfortunately not available/legal where I live. As for gut bacteria, I don't know if this is relevant, but for mayn years now every night as lay down bed in bed my intestines start to rumble and churn a lot. This continues for ~30 min, until eventually plenty of gas is released and things settle down. It doesn't seem to matter what I eat, it happens every single night. Once I fasted the whole day and it still happened, although to lesser extent.

Dave is right. Rumination is a textbook sign of high serotonin. I understand that you may feel like you don't ruminate or have excessively verbal thought patterns, but your own description of your behavior suggests otherwise. You should have labs done. You sound depressed.

I have been diagnosed thrice with moderate depression, I personally think the correct diagnosis would be closer to dysthymia. No opinion about high serotonin, but low dopamine I do suspect strongly. Well, in the end both of these go hand in hand, no? Labs have come back as normal. I don't remember the totality of what was measured, but it included thyroid, blood sugars, hemoglobin and standard stuff like that. No hormones, amino acids or anything fancy.

Like most people on this forum, you may be a self-perfectionist. This does alienate you from other people because you're trying not to reflect the parts of them that you don't like.

Yes, that is very accurate. However, I have never got any validation or sense of social acceptance from the job I do. I don't think my mind operates that way. I have always validated my own self. Others can only strengthen a sentiment I have already embraced, or provide alternate insight for why it may not be accurate. Neverthelss, I am the gatekeeper in both situations. No praise or criticism can affect me emotionally without my permission.

Maybe the past wasn't as great as you romanticize it to be.

In some ways it sure was not. In other ways, it was probably even better. We evolved to have certain needs. If these needs were not being fulfilled in the past, they would not have been selected for in the first place. The reality is that our modern societies aren't built to fulfill the full array of these needs. Our collectives are larger, more abstract and relativistic than what many of us are biologically prepared to handle. It's one thing to be on guard for pumas in the night, but completely another to live under the constant stream of abstract threats like economical collapses, traitorous governments and societal upheavals. No one belongs to anywhere. In the west we have cultivated individualistic culture to the point of spiritual exhaustion. This is much different than what it was to live in a small tribe where everyone had clear place in the group and collectively upheld purpose from which values and goals were derived.

If your nauseated by the convenience of modern society why does your current lifestyle seem so convenient?

I am practically incapable of doing any changes. I just can't focus my mind to it. I don't desire anything, and I wouldn't have the ability to achieve it either. It's also possible that any drastic change I pull off puts me in an even worse position. For now I at least have my head above the water. My current existence is not horrible, merely far from being worthwhile.

It's useful to compare periods of stress versus insight. During the recovery phase from extreme stress, such as during a vacation, sabbatical, change of environment, new life circumstance, spiritual experience, nutritional change, or hormonal or supplemental introduction, we enter into a new perspective.

Vacations themselves may be thought of as "energy pooling," which itself activates the orienting reflex and allows the organism to reposition itself with a clearer understanding of its current state and present needs. It's important to capitalize on periods of recovery through an integration of new understandings into the present environment, all to safeguard a future uninterrupted flow of energy.

Androgens promote creativity and outward expression, whereas estrogen enforces harm-avoidance. After an artist reaches 40 years of age, creativity plummets. After 40, the use of adaptogenic substances such as coffee, teas, tobacco and alcohol becomes insufficient to promote youthfulness. Dr. Peat writes about "winter sickness," which he later calls "the pathology of estrogen dominance," or the more colloquial "seasonal affective disorder (SAD)," and it involves symptoms of moodiness, depression, irritability and so on.

@lampofred Thank you.

Yes, this is a more elaborate post, thanks for taking the time to write it. I have always felt more comfortable in the wintertime. No overly bright sunshine, no excessive sweating, no stupidly happy half naked people or loitering arabs and somalis in the streets.

I don't think I've ever been under significant stress. The concept of stressing over some external situation is unfamiliar to me. In the grand scheme of things everything is more or less as it is supposed to be. The world will go on regardless of what ever happens to me.

Not necessarily agreeing about the plummeting creativity. A better description would be that creativity changes form. There's of course a decline in cognitive fluidity over time, but that's hardly everything creativity is about. It's synthetization of previous experiences, sensations and knowledge. Nothing is ever created out of thin air. If for the sake of example we assume that IQ & experience determine the ability to perceive dots, then creativity is the ability to form novel connections between them. In this way, the potential for creativity can only get stronger with age as experience accumulates and the pool from which to pull data from grows.

Humans need to strive for something.work or produce something...or you'l never find meaning. 10 years? wow that's a long time to never try to think/live differently.

Be as harsh as you feel is necessary, I don't care. I do not mean to imply that I haven't been experimenting with different things. I've been employed and unemployed, addicted to substances and sober, in an out of love, spent periods in solitude and with friends. I have eaten a lot and very little, exercised and been inactive. It doesn't make much difference. The realities of existence remain the same.

 

[cyclops]

-

 

[LUH 3417]

Cypro is unfortunately not available/legal where I live. As for gut bacteria, I don't know if this is relevant, but for mayn years now every night as lay down bed in bed my intestines start to rumble and churn a lot. This continues for ~30 min, until eventually plenty of gas is released and things settle down. It doesn't seem to matter what I eat, it happens every single night. Once I fasted the whole day and it still happened, although to lesser extent.


I have been diagnosed thrice with moderate depression, I personally think the correct diagnosis would be closer to dysthymia. No opinion about high serotonin, but low dopamine I do suspect strongly. Well, in the end both of these go hand in hand, no? Labs have come back as normal. I don't remember the totality of what was measured, but it included thyroid, blood sugars, hemoglobin and standard stuff like that. No hormones, amino acids or anything fancy.


Yes, that is very accurate. However, I have never got any validation or sense of social acceptance from the job I do. I don't think my mind operates that way. I have always validated my own self. Others can only strengthen a sentiment I have already embraced, or provide alternate insight for why it may not be accurate. Neverthelss, I am the gatekeeper in both situations. No praise or criticism can affect me emotionally without my permission.


In some ways it sure was not. In other ways, it was probably even better. We evolved to have certain needs. If these needs were not being fulfilled in the past, they would not have been selected for in the first place. The reality is that our modern societies aren't built to fulfill the full array of these needs. Our collectives are larger, more abstract and relativistic than what many of us are biologically prepared to handle. It's one thing to be on guard for pumas in the night, but completely another to live under the constant stream of abstract threats like economical collapses, traitorous governments and societal upheavals. No one belongs to anywhere. In the west we have cultivated individualistic culture to the point of spiritual exhaustion. This is much different than what it was to live in a small tribe where everyone had clear place in the group and collectively upheld purpose from which values and goals were derived.



I am practically incapable of doing any changes. I just can't focus my mind to it. I don't desire anything, and I wouldn't have the ability to achieve it either. It's also possible that any drastic change I pull off puts me in an even worse position. For now I at least have my head above the water. My current existence is not horrible, merely far from being worthwhile.



Yes, this is a more elaborate post, thanks for taking the time to write it. I have always felt more comfortable in the wintertime. No overly bright sunshine, no excessive sweating, no stupidly happy half naked people or loitering arabs and somalis in the streets.

I don't think I've ever been under significant stress. The concept of stressing over some external situation is unfamiliar to me. In the grand scheme of things everything is more or less as it is supposed to be. The world will go on regardless of what ever happens to me.

Not necessarily agreeing about the plummeting creativity. A better description would be that creativity changes form. There's of course a decline in cognitive fluidity over time, but that's hardly everything creativity is about. It's synthetization of previous experiences, sensations and knowledge. Nothing is ever created out of thin air. If for the sake of example we assume that IQ & experience determine the ability to perceive dots, then creativity is the ability to form novel connections between them. In this way, the potential for creativity can only get stronger with age as experience accumulates and the pool from which to pull data from grows.


Be as harsh as you feel is necessary, I don't care. I do not mean to imply that I haven't been experimenting with different things. I've been employed and unemployed, addicted to substances and sober, in an out of love, spent periods in solitude and with friends. I have eaten a lot and very little, exercised and been inactive. It doesn't make much difference. The realities of existence remain the same.

Do you have any desire to be a father?

 

[Prosper]

Do you have any desire to be a father?

Great question. I have contradictory feelings about that. One one hand, I find it impossible to perceive life as a gift worth passing on. The mind-crippling horrors of self-awareness seem vastly greater than the net benefit of ever existing. The greatest implications of existence are unequivocally tormenting in their nature. Non-existence is a blessing that has been granted an infinite amount of times, existence a curse that has been cast on the select few. Who have we wronged? Where did we in particular fail?

On the other hand, I realize that possibly the only way to ever feel fulfilled in this plane of existence is to raise a kid. If I don't have kids my life WILL get more miserable, empty and purposeless as time goes on. Secondly, it's difficult not to feel responsible for continuing the unique genetic lineage that has been passed on directly from father to son for an incomprehensible amount of time.

As for now, the best answer I can give you is: while I wouldn't mind being a father, I care for the kids I could have enough not to want to doom them to potentially disturbing existence. It is not a complete answer. For I have not yet determined what weighs the most: my wellbeing, my child's wellbeing, or the survival of my lineage.

 

[DaveFoster]

Great question. I have contradictory feelings about that. One one hand, I find it impossible to perceive life as a gift worth passing on. The mind-crippling horrors of self-awareness seem vastly greater than the net benefit of ever existing. The greatest implications of existence are unequivocally tormenting in their nature. Non-existence is a blessing that has been granted an infinite amount of times, existence a curse that has been cast on the select few. Who have we wronged? Where did we in particular fail?

On the other hand, I realize that possibly the only way to ever feel fulfilled in this plane of existence is to raise a kid. If I don't have kids my life WILL get more miserable, empty and purposeless as time goes on. Secondly, it's difficult not to feel responsible for continuing the unique genetic lineage that has been passed on directly from father to son for an incomprehensible amount of time.

As for now, the best answer I can give you is: while I wouldn't mind being a father, I care for the kids I could have enough not to want to doom them to potentially disturbing existence. It is not a complete answer. For I have not yet determined what weighs the most: my wellbeing, my child's wellbeing, or the survival of my lineage.

I share a lot of the same struggles as you, so I can empathize.

To add to the uncertainty around being a father, the legal system in Western countries (particularly the U.S.) can leave a man in financial ruin should he enter into an unhappy arrangement with his wife, where she files for divorce.

You have a balanced perspective already, and I cannot offer advice, as you need to map your own journey.

The idea that stress detracts from actualization can offer some insight, but again, we all have different stressors. Religion, alcoholism, family, and creative work all seem to provide comfort to many, not to state alcoholism as preferable. Some take SSRIs and find happiness that way, and at the end of the day, I think health would be a valuable pursuance, and then environmental structuring would follow in an organic way.

Of course, I'm still trying to implement my own theories, and the recent thread on things that work over the long-term name the most comprehensive therapies as the most effective (delicious food, light, thyroid, coffee, aspirin, sex, and so on.) It's necessary to develop friendships around shared values as well.

 

[ReSTART]

Your writing is pretty salient. Are you well read?

 

[Peatful]

@Prosper

I was doing something rote and was thinking of u and this thread.

Two things...
Viktor Frankl. Mans Search For Meaning.
You may really like it.

Also...
The Book of Ecclesiastes. Old Testament.
Written by wealthy and wise Israeli king Solomon who wrestled with the same observations of life as u.

 

[Prosper]

I share a lot of the same struggles as you, so I can empathize.

To add to the uncertainty around being a father, the legal system in Western countries (particularly the U.S.) can leave a man in financial ruin should he enter into an unhappy arrangement with his wife, where she files for divorce.

Yes, the legal system is not favourable for men. Although, I think that if you end up in a situation where divorce is the only option, the fault is yours either for unwittingly marrying the wrong kind of a woman, or for not doing your part in maintaining the relationship. Both scenarios should be nearly 100% avoidable with sufficient amount foresight, self-awareness and honesty. Of course, in practice love is not that straightforward.

I think health would be a valuable pursuance, and then environmental structuring would follow in an organic way.

That is true. The problem is: how to increase healthiness when the symptoms of unhealthiness are not obvious? Especially in case of mental health. It's rarely as easy as "eat this or supplement that", even if extensive lab tests are done. I think dysthymic depression is perhaps the most insidious mental illness, because it is so easily integrated into the worldview of the one suffering from it. PTSD is simple. You know where you got it, what triggers it and how it manifests. Major depression is obvious too. You are aware that you are not well. With dysthymia, there is no clear division between the healthy and dysfunctional lenses through which reality is experienced. They have essentially fused together. You're not even sure you are ill.

Your writing is pretty salient. Are you well read?

Not particularly. I'm fond of the idea of reading, but rarely have the patience to sit down and open a book. I've just spent most of my life on the internet posting on various forums. English is one of those convenient and intuition-friendly languages that can be picked up without ever really studying it. Going in depth about something, as books tend to do, is boring. I mainly absorb ideas and synthesize the details from the connections I make.

@Prosper

I was doing something rote and was thinking of u and this thread.

Two things...
Viktor Frankl. Mans Search For Meaning.
You may really like it.

Also...
The Book of Ecclesiastes. Old Testament.
Written by wealthy and wise Israeli king Solomon who wrestled with the same observations of life as u.

Thanks, I will check that out. I think it may even already be in my pdf folder.

 

[DaveFoster]

Yes, the legal system is not favourable for men. Although, I think that if you end up in a situation where divorce is the only option, the fault is yours either for unwittingly marrying the wrong kind of a woman, or for not doing your part in maintaining the relationship. Both scenarios should be nearly 100% avoidable with sufficient amount foresight, self-awareness and honesty. Of course, in practice love is not that straightforward.

Divorce may be necessary in the context of mental illness, but even then treatment can restore functionality. The unfavorable court system resembles a bank vault with unlocked doors and a disbanded police force, where the bank owner implores the locals to refrain from theft.

 

[cyclops]

I am practically incapable of doing any changes. I just can't focus my mind to it. I don't desire anything, and I wouldn't have the ability to achieve it either. It's also possible that any drastic change I pull off puts me in an even worse position. For now I at least have my head above the water. My current existence is not horrible, merely far from being worthwhile.

"Whether you think you can or cannot, you're right." Obviously you're not actually incapable of making changes. You have to focus your mind to something and do something, Of course making a change could put you in a worse position, or a better position, but something will happen and change. Life is taking risks.

 

[Bodhi]

Sounds like high stress hormones, low brain steroids and high serotonin due too low thyroid to me....

 

[Constatine]

Our ideologies and patterns of thought certainly influence our emotional well being but the opposite is also true. Our constructed reality is dependent on our emotional states (or rather mental health) throughout our development. A man who grew up healthy and happy will be more optimistic, spiritual, and will overall have a more positive map of reality compared to a man who has either experienced emotional trauma or suffers from poor health. These men can be of equal intelligence but the same will be true.

 

[Dhair]

Our ideologies and patterns of thought certainly influence our emotional well being but the opposite is also true. Our constructed reality is dependent on our emotional states (or rather mental health) throughout our development. A man who grew up healthy and happy will be more optimistic, spiritual, and will overall have a more positive map of reality compared to a man who has either experienced emotional trauma or suffers from poor health. These men can be of equal intelligence but the same will be true.

I agree. I think it is important to remember that our hormonal situation and health in general literally makes us who we are. Maybe some people are more susceptible to these changes than others, but I know that this is absolutely the truth in my case.

 

[Prosper]

Update: got diagnosed with ADHD. In retrostpect, I should have thought about this sooner. It explains the indecisiviness and lack of intitiative & the ability to commit I've been experiencing my whole life. This diagnosis is definitely not the full answer, but it's a start.

Peaty recommendations for managing ADHD are welcome. I'm not fond of the idea of starting medicating myself.

 

[cyclops]

Update: got diagnosed with ADHD. In retrostpect, I should have thought about this sooner. It explains the indecisiviness and lack of intitiative & the ability to commit I've been experiencing my whole life.

How did you get diagnosed? By a doctor? How do they test for that?

 

[Prosper]

How did you get diagnosed? By a doctor? How do they test for that?

Doctor/psychiatrist. There was a preliminary extensive questionnaire and then further discussion about the specific symptoms and how they manifest in daily life. The approach was less dogmatic than I feared and seemed to be oriented around correct interpretation of subjective symptoms instead of merely counting how many boxes can be ticked on some pre-determined criteria.

 

[lollipop]

@Prosper I am not as certain about Peat type of help, but I am certain of a strong Iyengar yoga practice - have seen it basically eliminate the diagnosis. Not sure where you live, but find a certified Iyengar yoga teacher. Life changing.

 

[Prosper]

@Prosper I am not as certain about Peat type of help, but I am certain of a strong Iyengar yoga practice - have seen it basically eliminate the diagnosis. Not sure where you live, but find a certified Iyengar yoga teacher. Life changing.

Interesting. What is special about this particular type of yoga?

 

[lollipop]

Interesting. What is special about this particular type of yoga?

Google B.K.S. Iyengar. Amazing man. Goes very deep, long holdings, super alignment emphasis...

 

[Constatine]

I've found that exercising almost every day (lifting weights and explosive exercises like sprints) to be very effective against ADHD and OCD like symptoms.