Our First Love

Nicholas

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Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
666
Not in a disparaging way, but i am shocked when i read some of the logs and posts here about healing people are seeking or have found and it involves what seems like a chaotic splattering of experiments and supplements and symptoms and isolated variables. For those who say they have found healing with very extensive supplemental protocols, i wonder how long they find it. And should those still in the chaotic throes of healing here reconsider their approach? I hesitated to bring any of this up, but perhaps this is very important and something which is a cancer not only in this forum but also in the world that must be addressed. Please know that i could not be addressing this if i have not first addressed it in myself. If you do not feel like this applies to you then good.

Have Ray Peat and others illuminated the cell physiology just as documentarians or are they illuminating it to communicate a deeper message? The knowledge and information here is exhaustive - a hundred times over anything Peat and others have written. But where has it gotten us? Are we to be like those who are "ever learning but unable to come to the knowledge of the truth"? To me, the deeper message which kills the endless searching for health is this: keep cellular emergencies at bay. If the cell feels like it is in a resourced and peaceful environment, it can do its job without our interference.

How is anyone certain that food is not enough? Maybe they've misunderstood the cell all along and this is why they couldn't get food to get the ball rolling. Humans cannot treat symptoms. We must banish that thought. Only cells can. Dysfunction *proves* how functional the body is. Symptoms are not indication of a localized dysfunction, they are indicative of a *cellular* dysfunction. How do we overcome manifestations of dysfunction? By not focusing on it. Because it's a good thing. It's perfectly normal. It should encourage us that our body has the functionality to be dysfunctional. So if i have any manifestation of dysfunction at all - whether it's skin issues, or constipation issues, or libido problems, or anything else - all of these things are not something we have any power over. All of these things are nothing we have power over. The *cell* is the only thing which has power over these symptoms. So if we take that understanding and apply it to the healing process we are left with one huge reality: our one and only contribution to the healing process is to look out for the cell - to keep cellular emergencies at bay. If the cell feels like it is in a resourced and peaceful environment, it can do its job without our interference. How you get there will be different for everyone, but it's about each individual meeting the demands of their cell and creating a balanced environment so that cell feels confident.

If we take this approach to healing and actually believe it and live it out, we are being freed from false beliefs and doctrines about the body. If any of us consider ourselves students of Peat and true science of the body, then this is the only possible conclusion you can come to regarding healing. A generalization in this instance is very useful and necessary as there are so few with anomalies which don't fit into this context. When this approach is adopted and consistently lived by, the word "healing" becomes something more equivalent to "living" - it's not about attaining anything that we can see beyond the cell. Health is not something that you reach, it's something you have a limited responsibility over till the day you die.


I came into this forum already believing these things and for a while this has all been interesting to see different angles of research and new studies and areas i'd never thought about....but there is nothing new under the sun. Peat is not a revolutionary and neither are we. The cell is the revolutionary and always has been. Just because it may have taken us years to put it down onto paper or illuminated under microscopes, it's always been there all along doing what it was designed to do....and humans have always been here as well - recognizing the things that we always think are new things but are actually things people have understood since the beginning of time. Research doesn't lead to truth. Perception leads to truth.

It is difficult because the general false beliefs and doctrines of the body here (amidst all the valid studies) can start to invade your mind and after a while you lose the truth, you lose your first love.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
1,972
I'm surprised to see this and your other post. I though your coaching session with Josh Rubin healed all your problems.

I have a completely different way of looking at things than you do and it's been like that every time we've interacted for over a year now so it's redundant to say something.

But the Josh Rubin thing, I assume you will just say "He taught me a lot but that is just one step of the journey, etc."
 
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Nicholas

Nicholas

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Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
666
Westside PUFAs said:
I'm surprised to see this and your other post. I though your coaching session with Josh Rubin healed all your problems.

I have a completely different way of looking at things than you do and it's been like that every time we've interacted for over a year now so it's redundant to say something.

But the Josh Rubin thing, I assume you will just say "He taught me a lot but that is just one step of the journey, etc."

i don't really understand what you are trying to communicate here. Josh Rubin did not heal my problems just like he doesn't heal anybody's problems. If i said that, it must have been a mis-speaking because i've never believed that. East West Healing has a very unconventional approach to anybody else in the practitioner world in that they believe the patient is the one who defines the healing process. The things i have written in this post are reflective of things i learned while working with him for three months - whether he explicitly said these things are not. It's an understanding that grows more and more true and full the more struggles i have and live through.
 
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Nicholas

Nicholas

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Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
666
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
 

Blinkyrocket

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Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
474
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27
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.
 
OP
Nicholas

Nicholas

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
666
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

your stress environment
your physical activity
your hygeine
your sunlight
your sleep habits
your habits in general
your social activity
your calories per day
your calories per meal
your meals per day
your timing of meals
your non-allergenic food
your digestible food
your types and varieties of carbs
your types and varieties of proteins
your types of fats
your macro ratios per meal
your nutrient variety
your fiber/fiber types
your toxins in your environment (to a lesser degree)

all of these things and more are part of the consistent balancing act in keeping cells cool and collected so that they can begin to repair and focus less on emergencies. none of these things target symptoms but target the cells. you have to work through these things and figure out your groove. your groove is an intuitive place where things are feeling good, you can see your function improving (even if only slowly), and temp and pulse are becoming more consistent. Once they become consistent then they begin to optimize. Your groove at any place in time will not be with you forever because your cells have different needs at different times and your life context is always changing. When you intuitively sense that things are getting off, then you work through these things again, perceiving where changes need to be until you find your next groove.
 

Stuart

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Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Messages
317
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

Would gelatin be a food or a supplement? Is it a food as long as it's in a meal? Would eating a piece of animal skin be gelatin as food or a supplement?
Never did quite understand people getting their knickers in a knot about supplements and food sources of exactly the same substances. Orange juice isn't a whole food. So is it just a supplement?
Please try not to just answer sarcastically though. I'm genuinely curious.
 

Blinkyrocket

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
474
Age
27
Stuart said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

Would gelatin be a food or a supplement? Is it a food as long as it's in a meal? Would eating a piece of animal skin be gelatin as food or a supplement?
Never did quite understand people getting their knickers in a knot about supplements and food sources of exactly the same substances. Orange juice isn't a whole food. So is it just a supplement?
Please try not to just answer sarcastically though. I'm genuinely curious.
I'm challenging him, I don't care bout supplements in fact I take aspirin (has titanium dioxide and stuff but I dissolve it) vitamin K, sometimes casein, if we made foods with all the components except the bad ones I'd eat them instead of whole foods, course a guarantee like that isn't very likely to happen.
 

Blinkyrocket

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
474
Age
27
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

your stress environment
your physical activity
your hygeine
your sunlight
your sleep habits
your habits in general
your social activity
your calories per day
your calories per meal
your meals per day
your timing of meals
your non-allergenic food
your digestible food
your types and varieties of carbs
your types and varieties of proteins
your types of fats
your macro ratios per meal
your nutrient variety
your fiber/fiber types
your toxins in your environment (to a lesser degree)

all of these things and more are part of the consistent balancing act in keeping cells cool and collected so that they can begin to repair and focus less on emergencies. none of these things target symptoms but target the cells. you have to work through these things and figure out your groove. your groove is an intuitive place where things are feeling good, you can see your function improving (even if only slowly), and temp and pulse are becoming more consistent. Once they become consistent then they begin to optimize. Your groove at any place in time will not be with you forever because your cells have different needs at different times and your life context is always changing. When you intuitively sense that things are getting off, then you work through these things again, perceiving where changes need to be until you find your next groove.
The only thing that's changed anything is consciously relaxing my core muscles. What if I'm constantly in glycolysis?
Also is it supposed to take years and years cuz I've been on this diet for almost a year now.
 
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Nicholas

Nicholas

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
666
Stuart said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

Would gelatin be a food or a supplement? Is it a food as long as it's in a meal? Would eating a piece of animal skin be gelatin as food or a supplement?
Never did quite understand people getting their knickers in a knot about supplements and food sources of exactly the same substances. Orange juice isn't a whole food. So is it just a supplement?
Please try not to just answer sarcastically though. I'm genuinely curious.

the way i see it is that the more you isolate substances the more you have to become a scientist. The harder it becomes to balance by perception alone. Taking supplements in a way doesn't make sense because then you have to supplement the substance it depletes and act like you know all the new variables that are created by taking an isolated substance. And where have you gotten when you get off the supplement? i think everyone has to use their discretion on the blurry lines that exist sometimes between food and supplements. The major point of my post is not to be anti-supplements, it's to show that a deficiency in any nutrient represents a deficiency in the entire system (usually). "Rectifying" the deficiency by taking a supplement does not cure the deficiency problem......because it's (usually) a cellular problem [i.e. energy breakdown]. We can't separate the systems of the body because the body itself does not separate the systems. This is why Peat focuses so much on the cell, or always comes back to it at least.
 

Blinkyrocket

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
474
Age
27
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

your stress environment
your physical activity
your hygeine
your sunlight
your sleep habits
your habits in general
your social activity
your calories per day
your calories per meal
your meals per day
your timing of meals
your non-allergenic food
your digestible food
your types and varieties of carbs
your types and varieties of proteins
your types of fats
your macro ratios per meal
your nutrient variety
your fiber/fiber types
your toxins in your environment (to a lesser degree)

all of these things and more are part of the consistent balancing act in keeping cells cool and collected so that they can begin to repair and focus less on emergencies. none of these things target symptoms but target the cells. you have to work through these things and figure out your groove. your groove is an intuitive place where things are feeling good, you can see your function improving (even if only slowly), and temp and pulse are becoming more consistent. Once they become consistent then they begin to optimize. Your groove at any place in time will not be with you forever because your cells have different needs at different times and your life context is always changing. When you intuitively sense that things are getting off, then you work through these things again, perceiving where changes need to be until you find your next groove.
Listing all this stuff is kinda dumb in that I can't control any of it. And if I do than it won't be because I wanted to and therefore won't be healthy. Can't change sleep habits, it happened when it happens.
 

Blinkyrocket

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
474
Age
27
Nicholas said:
Stuart said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

Would gelatin be a food or a supplement? Is it a food as long as it's in a meal? Would eating a piece of animal skin be gelatin as food or a supplement?
Never did quite understand people getting their knickers in a knot about supplements and food sources of exactly the same substances. Orange juice isn't a whole food. So is it just a supplement?
Please try not to just answer sarcastically though. I'm genuinely curious.

the way i see it is that the more you isolate substances the more you have to become a scientist. The harder it becomes to balance by perception alone. Taking supplements in a way doesn't make sense because then you have to supplement the substance it depletes and act like you know all the new variables that are created by taking an isolated substance. And where have you gotten when you get off the supplement? i think everyone has to use their discretion on the blurry lines that exist sometimes between food and supplements. The major point of my post is not to be anti-supplements, it's to show that a deficiency in any nutrient represents a deficiency in the entire system (usually). "Rectifying" the deficiency by taking a supplement does not cure the deficiency problem......because it's (usually) a cellular problem [i.e. energy breakdown]. We can't separate the systems of the body because the body itself does not separate the systems. This is why Peat focuses so much on the cell, or always comes back to it at least.
Too much work to get thyroid.
 
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Nicholas

Nicholas

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Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
666
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

your stress environment
your physical activity
your hygeine
your sunlight
your sleep habits
your habits in general
your social activity
your calories per day
your calories per meal
your meals per day
your timing of meals
your non-allergenic food
your digestible food
your types and varieties of carbs
your types and varieties of proteins
your types of fats
your macro ratios per meal
your nutrient variety
your fiber/fiber types
your toxins in your environment (to a lesser degree)

all of these things and more are part of the consistent balancing act in keeping cells cool and collected so that they can begin to repair and focus less on emergencies. none of these things target symptoms but target the cells. you have to work through these things and figure out your groove. your groove is an intuitive place where things are feeling good, you can see your function improving (even if only slowly), and temp and pulse are becoming more consistent. Once they become consistent then they begin to optimize. Your groove at any place in time will not be with you forever because your cells have different needs at different times and your life context is always changing. When you intuitively sense that things are getting off, then you work through these things again, perceiving where changes need to be until you find your next groove.
The only thing that's changed anything is consciously relaxing my core muscles. What if I'm constantly in glycolysis?
Also is it supposed to take years and years cuz I've been on this diet for almost a year now.

please re-read everything i've written a few times. you seem to be missing really major points. If you have been a year on some diet and haven't seen improvements or you feel it's not the best thing, then this is your body telling you that it wants a change. you have to let go of diets and start creating your own diet based on your own perceptions using the above variables. things you have learned here will certainly be helpful along the way. IF you are constantly in glycolysis, then your body has an energy breakdown and your cells are more concerned with tending to that emergency than they are with tending to the healing attributes of oxidative metabolism. But it's not something you should switch quickly. You can't truly switch these things quickly. You can certainly artificially switch things quickly by taking supplements and thyroid but that's not what my post is concerned with. When your focus is the cell, you have to go at the cell's pace. Trying to make a hundred positive changes at once is just as stressful to the cell. Remember that it takes time to restore confidence to the cell to step away from the emergency state.
 
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Nicholas

Nicholas

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Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
666
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nicholas said:
Blinkyrocket said:
Nothing has changed in my going from 100g of PUFA a day to around 5g.

do you mean that you think PUFA are the only variable concerning cellular health?
what else is there hoss? And don't mention a single supplement.

your stress environment
your physical activity
your hygeine
your sunlight
your sleep habits
your habits in general
your social activity
your calories per day
your calories per meal
your meals per day
your timing of meals
your non-allergenic food
your digestible food
your types and varieties of carbs
your types and varieties of proteins
your types of fats
your macro ratios per meal
your nutrient variety
your fiber/fiber types
your toxins in your environment (to a lesser degree)

all of these things and more are part of the consistent balancing act in keeping cells cool and collected so that they can begin to repair and focus less on emergencies. none of these things target symptoms but target the cells. you have to work through these things and figure out your groove. your groove is an intuitive place where things are feeling good, you can see your function improving (even if only slowly), and temp and pulse are becoming more consistent. Once they become consistent then they begin to optimize. Your groove at any place in time will not be with you forever because your cells have different needs at different times and your life context is always changing. When you intuitively sense that things are getting off, then you work through these things again, perceiving where changes need to be until you find your next groove.
Listing all this stuff is kinda dumb in that I can't control any of it. And if I do than it won't be because I wanted to and therefore won't be healthy. Can't change sleep habits, it happened when it happens.

yes, you are right.....things happen when they happen. You don't just artificially impose changes up out of nowhere. If you're following the body's lead, it tends to want to ease into things
 

Blinkyrocket

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I already do what I want to do, diet supplements that and supplements supplement that.

What my body tells me to do is lie down and never get back up, but supposedly I have to work to survive.
 
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Nicholas

Nicholas

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Joined
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Messages
666
Blinkyrocket said:
I already do what I want to do, diet supplements that and supplements supplement that.

What my body tells me to do is lie down and never get back up, but supposedly I have to work to survive.

what you want to do is not always what is best for the cell. But it will certainly fight for you either way. I know it's difficult to understand sometimes what your body is telling you. my solution: begin writing it out and start getting this process of perceiving outside of your head. when it's on paper in front of you and you can see something you wrote down yesterday and how it compares to something today you begin to see where you have been perceiving things incorrectly.
 
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Nicholas

Nicholas

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Messages
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i know exactly the anxiety you are describing about approaching such a process. but the answer is that you cannot understand the process until you start doing it. what you (and myself) are really fearful of is having to face the reality of thinking for yourself.
 

jaguar43

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
1,310
Nicholas said:
Not in a disparaging way, but i am shocked when i read some of the logs and posts here about healing people are seeking or have found and it involves what seems like a chaotic splattering of experiments and supplements and symptoms and isolated variables. For those who say they have found healing with very extensive supplemental protocols, i wonder how long they find it. And should those still in the chaotic throes of healing here reconsider their approach? I hesitated to bring any of this up, but perhaps this is very important and something which is a cancer not only in this forum but also in the world that must be addressed. Please know that i could not be addressing this if i have not first addressed it in myself. If you do not feel like this applies to you then good.

Have Ray Peat and others illuminated the cell physiology just as documentarians or are they illuminating it to communicate a deeper message? The knowledge and information here is exhaustive - a hundred times over anything Peat and others have written. But where has it gotten us? Are we to be like those who are "ever learning but unable to come to the knowledge of the truth"? To me, the deeper message which kills the endless searching for health is this: keep cellular emergencies at bay. If the cell feels like it is in a resourced and peaceful environment, it can do its job without our interference.

How is anyone certain that food is not enough? Maybe they've misunderstood the cell all along and this is why they couldn't get food to get the ball rolling. Humans cannot treat symptoms. We must banish that thought. Only cells can. Dysfunction *proves* how functional the body is. Symptoms are not indication of a localized dysfunction, they are indicative of a *cellular* dysfunction. How do we overcome manifestations of dysfunction? By not focusing on it. Because it's a good thing. It's perfectly normal. It should encourage us that our body has the functionality to be dysfunctional. So if i have any manifestation of dysfunction at all - whether it's skin issues, or constipation issues, or libido problems, or anything else - all of these things are not something we have any power over. All of these things are nothing we have power over. The *cell* is the only thing which has power over these symptoms. So if we take that understanding and apply it to the healing process we are left with one huge reality: our one and only contribution to the healing process is to look out for the cell - to keep cellular emergencies at bay. If the cell feels like it is in a resourced and peaceful environment, it can do its job without our interference. How you get there will be different for everyone, but it's about each individual meeting the demands of their cell and creating a balanced environment so that cell feels confident.

If we take this approach to healing and actually believe it and live it out, we are being freed from false beliefs and doctrines about the body. If any of us consider ourselves students of Peat and true science of the body, then this is the only possible conclusion you can come to regarding healing. A generalization in this instance is very useful and necessary as there are so few with anomalies which don't fit into this context. When this approach is adopted and consistently lived by, the word "healing" becomes something more equivalent to "living" - it's not about attaining anything that we can see beyond the cell. Health is not something that you reach, it's something you have a limited responsibility over till the day you die.


I came into this forum already believing these things and for a while this has all been interesting to see different angles of research and new studies and areas i'd never thought about....but there is nothing new under the sun. Peat is not a revolutionary and neither are we. The cell is the revolutionary and always has been. Just because it may have taken us years to put it down onto paper or illuminated under microscopes, it's always been there all along doing what it was designed to do....and humans have always been here as well - recognizing the things that we always think are new things but are actually things people have understood since the beginning of time. Research doesn't lead to truth. Perception leads to truth.

It is difficult because the general false beliefs and doctrines of the body here (amidst all the valid studies) can start to invade your mind and after a while you lose the truth, you lose your first love.

What your promoting is an idea that has been around for thousands of years, and that is the idea that people cannot help themselves.

Ray Peat has wrote and talk extensively about the problem of learned helplessness. And yet, you continue to pursue an ideology that reinforces learned helplessness. Your other post The lies of the Mind [/u]essentially proves my point.

The idea that somehow we cannot find answers, or solutions do not exist shows that you are an authoritative figure.

I am not saying that we should provide people with a false sense of security. But misleading people with your philosophical rhetoric is anti-science and anti-truth.

I really think you should go back and read some of Ray Peats articles. And then restructure your train of thought.
 

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