Other Edible Mushrooms Like Shiitake – Your Opinions?

Logan-

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Could you share your views and/or experiences with mushrooms other than white button mushrooms?

I have read quite good things about shiitake mushrooms, for example. There are many other types of mushrooms that are interesting, I want to learn your experiences and ideas about them, regarding their benefits, the proper methods of preparation, their taste, their safety etc.
 
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Logan-

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Agaritine content of shiitake mushrooms:


Nihon Koshu Eisei Zasshi. 1990 Jun;37(6):400-5.

[Quantities of agaritine in mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus) and the carcinogenicity of mushroom methanol extracts on the mouse bladder epithelium].

[Article in Japanese]

Hashida C1, Hayashi K, Jie L, Haga S, Sakurai M, Shimizu H.

Author information

Abstract

Consumption of the Agaricus species mushrooms has increased considerably in Japan as the Japanese have become accustomed to Western cooking. The Agaricus species mushroom contains hydrazine derivatives known as Agaritine. Bladder implantation was performed to test the carcinogenic potential of the Agaricus species mushroom which contains large quantities of Agaritine. The results are summarized as follows: 1) Agaritine was detected in fresh Agaricus bisporus mushrooms at the level of 228.2 micrograms/wet weight and in Shiitake (Agaricus edodes) mushrooms at 0.82 microgram/g wet weight, but was not detected in either canned Agaricus bisporus mushrooms or Matsutake (Armillaria edodes) mushrooms. 2) The observed rates of mouse urinary bladder carcinoma were 30.8% for fresh mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), 23.5% for fresh Shiitake (Agaricus edodes), 9.8% for dry Shiitake, 50% for synthesized Agaritine and 5.4% for paraffin wax as a control. The methanol extract of fresh mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus) and synthesized Agaritine were found to be significantly carcinogenic on the mouse bladder epithelium by the bladder implantation test with a probability of less than 0.01. 3) A large quantity of Agaritine was detected in fresh mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus), but decreased after boiling the mushrooms in water at 100 degrees C for 10 min. 4) The methanol extract of fresh mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus) and synthesized Agaritine are suggested to be the agents for producing cancer in the bladder epithelium. 5) Adding heat to mushrooms containing Agaritine before cooking contributes to the prevention of any potential Agaritine hazard which may induce carcinogenic changes in the bladder epithelium.

PMID: 2132000

[Quantities of agaritine in mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus) and the carcinogenicity of mushroom methanol extracts on the mouse bladder epithelium]. - PubMed - NCBI


The question whether agaritine may be found in mushrooms outside the genus Agaricus

has been addressed also by other investigators. Levenberg (1964) was unable to detect

agaritine in any of the 30 non-Agaricus species analysed (detection limit for the analytical

technique not mentioned), and Stijve and co-workers in any of 39 wild-growing and 30

cultivated non-Agaricus species (Stijve et al. 1986; Stijve and Pittett 2000). Two reports on

popular cultivated mushrooms are in conflict with these data. Hashida et al. (1990) found

very low levels of agaritine in shiitake (Lentinus edodes), 0.82 mg/kg fresh weight, and

Burini et al. (1999) very high levels (average level 680 mg/kg fresh weight; range 478-905

mg/kg) in the Oyster mushroom (Pleurotus ostreatus). With such low quantities of

agaritine in fresh shiitake, it came as no surprise that Andersson et al. (1999) were unable

to detect agaritine in a Swedish sample of canned shiitake, and that Stijve et al. (1986)

were unable to detect agaritine in fresh shiitake using an analytical technique having a limit

of detection around 20-25 mg/kg fresh weight. Further studies are needed to determine

whether fresh shiitake mushrooms contain low levels of agaritine.

https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00577390/document Agaritine content of 53 Agaricus species collected from nature


Agaritine content of 26 species of cultivated mushrooms,
not belonging to the genus Agaricus, has been screened for
agaritine with negative results (limit of determination: 0.03%
on dry matter). The Oyster mushroom, Pleurotus ostreatus,
which has previously been reported to contain as much agaritine as A. bisporus, also consistently tested negative in this
study. The authors stated that the earlier report was based
on poor methodology yielding false positive results. A study
of the distribution of agaritine within the genus Agaricus (covering 32 spp.) revealed that the compound is often accompanied by the formylphenylhydrazine analogue agaritinal,
which had only previously been isolated from the Meadow
Mushroom A. campestris. Members of the related genera Lepiota and Coprinus, as well as the hallucinogenic mushrooms,
were also found to be devoid of agaritine. The data indicated
that the occurrence of agaritine is limited to the genus Agaricus (Stijve & Pittet, 2000). A recent study of agaritine content
of 53 Agaricus species in the Czech Republic has also reported
no correlations between agaritine content and size of mushroom, week of the year collected, year or site of collection
(Schulzova et al., 2009).

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/248602083_Mushrooms_and_agaritine_A_mini-review Mushrooms and agaritine: A mini-review
 
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schultz

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Agaritine seems to be degraded by heat like hydrazine, so I guess if you cook them for a while like button mushrooms they should be okay. I wonder if pan fry reduces the hydrazine and agaritine like boiling does? Apparently people eat mushrooms raw (I've seen it with my own eyes!) which is just weird IMO.
 
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Logan-

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Apparently people eat mushrooms raw (I've seen it with my own eyes!) which is just weird IMO.

Paul Stamets warns about it in Joe Rogan podcast: Paul Stamets Says Talking About Portabello Mushrooms Could Put His Life In Jeopardy

Agaritine seems to be degraded by heat like hydrazine, so I guess if you cook them for a while like button mushrooms they should be okay. I wonder if pan fry reduces the hydrazine and agaritine like boiling does?

It's the heat that reduces agaritine, so frying would reduce it, but I think the remaining agaritine with that method would be problematic, especially if you eat white button mushrooms regularly. If you don't like the taste of two-hour boiled mushrooms, you can fry it with butter after boiling it. That gives some of its unique mushroom taste back, makes it tasty.

Or you can make a soup out of it, after you boil the mushrooms. That's what Ray Peat does: Mushroom Soup (Ground Mushrooms) Instead Of The Sliced Version?

Ray Peat says boiling them one to three hours is enough to make them safe.

For shiitake, since they contain much less agaritine, boiling it for 30 to 60 minutes would be enough I think.
 
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Logan-

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I wonder if pan fry reduces the hydrazine and agaritine like boiling does?

Boiling extracted around 50% of the agaritine content into the cooking broth within 5min and degraded 20-25% of the original agaritine content of the mushrooms. Prolonged boiling, as when preparing a sauce, reduced the content in the solid mushroom further (around 10% left after 2h). Dry baking of the cultivated mushroom, a process similar to pizza baking, reduced the agaritine content by approximately 25%, whereas frying in oil or butter or deep frying resulted in a more marked reduction (35-70%). Microwave processing of the cultivated mushrooms reduced the agaritine content to one-third of the original level. Thus, the exposure to agaritine was substantially less when consuming processed Agaricus..

From: Carcinogenesis - Button/Crimini/Portabella Mushrooms - Fungi: All Edible, Medicinal, And Other Fungi - Mycotopia


WARNING: Do not eat portobello, cremini, or button mushrooms without cooking them at high temperatures!
First off, did you know that those 3 names are all the exact same kind of mushroom? All 3 of these (the most common mushrooms to be found in any grocery store in the western world), are actually just Agaricus bisporus, the only difference being their age. Buttons are the youngest, and portobellos are the oldest.

Make sure you cook your mushrooms!

These mushrooms contain agaritine & hydrazine, both of which have been found to be cancer-causing, but are luckily both heat-unstable. As Paul says in the video, you should cook all your mushrooms, but especially these ones. If you are boiling these mushrooms, be sure to toss out the water afterwards, as some of the agaritine will be extracted into it.

Cooking Types & Reduction of Agaritine:
Boiling

  • 20-25% degraded after 5 minutes
  • 90% degraded after 2 hours
Dry Baking

  • ~25% degraded
Frying

  • 35-70% degraded


· Never buy mushrooms from China
· Studies have shown mushrooms (as well as rice) from China coming back with levels of arsenic, lead, mercury, and cadmium. Sometimes over the maximum amounts legally allowed, and for me personally and traceable amounts are too much. These mushrooms will often also be treated with sodium sulfite as an "anti-browning agent", which has been known to cause respiratory side effects.

·
· The older mushrooms are better
· The concentration of hydrazine in button mushrooms decreases with the age of the mushroom, meaning a portobello will have less in it than a cremini, and a cremini will have less than a button. No matter which you're going for, make sure to cook it. Maybe mention something to the people running that salad bar with raw mushrooms in it?

·
· Only eat organic mushrooms
· If you hadn't noticed, mushrooms are quite porous, they're almost like little sponges. While this makes them AMAZING to cook with, just soaking up flavors, it also makes them extremely good at absorbing whatever has been sprayed on them or around them. This means any of those wonderfully toxic Monsatan products they're getting sprayed with, are likely making it right to your dinner plate.

From Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms by Paul Stamets
"This mushroom contains compounds that inhibit the enzyme aromatase. Aromatase is associated with tumor growth. Compounds inhibiting aromatase have potential for the treatment of breast cancer(Bankhead, 1999). A diet of mushrooms in mice with implanted tumors showed a decrease in aromatase as mushroom consumption increased. However, Agaricus brunnescens contains hydrazines, carcinogenic compounds that have been thought to dissipate only from prolonged, high temperature heating. More than 80 percent of known hydrazines are carcinogenic. The most notable carcinogenic hydrazine from this mushroom is agaritine, a powerful mutagen, which is activated by the mushroom enzyme tyrosinase, making it heat stable. Enzymes in the digestive system convert agaritine into carcinogenic by-products. The chemical culprits worthy of concern are: 4-(hydroxymethyl)phenylhydrazines and 4(hydroxymethyl)benzene diazonium ions(Walton et al. 1997). Free radicals can also activate Agaricus hydrazines into highly carcinogenic subconstituents (tomasi et al 1987) as well as catalytic processes in the kidneys (Price et al. 1996). Hence, there are several modes of activating agaritine into highly carcinogenic derivatives.

The damaging effects of agaritine's derivatives may be partially suppressed by the mushroom's antioxidants, which, in turn help create host-generated superoxide dismutases (SODs), and the activity of aromatase inhibitors. Walton et al. 1998 asserted, however, that the mutagenic and pre-mutagenic compounds are not affected by quick cooking(10 minutes at 437F/225C) but are only slightly reduced by prolonged heat treatment in boiling water for 4 hours at 212F/100C). A study of blanched, canned mushrooms showed that the agaritine content was reduced tenfold in comparison to fresh mushrooms, from 229mg/kg to 15-18mg/kg(Andersson et al. 1999). However, this reduction may have been due to leaching of the hydrazines into the surrounding water used for blanching in combination with prolonged, high pressure steaming processing used for canning. Another report by Sharman et al. 1990, found most fresh samples of this mushroom had agaritine levels within the range of 80-225mg/kg but with one dried sample having 6,520 mg/kg, a comparatively high level. This result suggests that agaritine production may be a strain specific trait, as this one dried, sliced sample had more than 8 times the agaritine content of other samples in this same study. In contrast, dried Shiitake mushrooms, Lentinula edodes, have either undetectable or extremely low levels of agaritines, in the 0.082 mg/kg range (Stijve et al. 1986; Hashida et al. 1990). Hashida's study reported marked reduction of agaritines from boiling water at 212F(100C) for 10 minutes, a report in direct contradiction of Walton's 1998 study.

A Swiss report estimated that with the average consumption of 4 grams per day of Agaricus bisporus(=Agaricus brunnescens) the lifetime increase in cancer risk would be approximately two cases per hundred thousand lives(Shepard et al. 1995). In a metropolitan area of twenty million residents, approximately the size of Los Angeles, two hundred people would be expected to get cancer in their lifetime from eating Agaricus brunnescens mushrooms, all other factors being equal.

However, other investigations have questioned the cause and effect relationship of agaritine in Button mushrooms and its mutagenic properties(Pilegaard et al. 1997; Matsumoto eet al. 1991; Papaparaskeva et al. 1991; and Pool-Kobel 1990). Benjamin 1995 noted that early studies are controversial and potentially flawed. One study had the intravenous introduction of mushrooms into mice. Another study showed that mice implanted with cancer cells (Sarcoma 180) and then fed dried mushrooms showed inhibited tumor growth(Mori et al. 1986). More recent studies reconfirm that a diet of this mushroom, both raw and baked, induced tumors in mice(Toth et al. 1998)

The cited research is highly controversial and raises concerns about the human consumption of Agaricus brunnescens as a health food. For years, the conventional wisdom was that hydrazines would be destroyed with cooking. Anti-cancer polysaccharides, aromatase-inhibiting compounds, and antioxidants known from Agaricus brunnescens(Kweon 1998), may neutralize the carcinogenic effects of hydrazines, but in my opinion, the jury is still out on this issue. Eating this mushroom raw, especially with free radical inducing foods, is definitely not recommended. And yet, in the United States, up to 80 percent of all Button mushrooms consumed are eaten uncooked. I am disturbed that the most commonly cultivated mushroom in the world has few studies authenticating its beneficial medicinal properties, in stark contrast to the numerous studies on Shiitake, Maitake, Reishi, Yun Zhi, and others. The Portobello mushroom may be gourmet, but in absence of scientific studies, I doubt that, at this time, Agaricus brunnescens can be considered medicinally beneficial.

What to do? The financial future of the Button/Portobello industry may well depend on recognizing the risks, and aggressively developing low agaritine or agaritine-free strains. As analyses have shown more than an eight-fold difference in the concentrations of agaritine in Agaricus brunnescens mushrooms, clearly some strains already in cultivation are much lower in agaritine content than others. Pursuing low agaritine strains should be top research priority within the Agaricus industry, especially within the venue of the spawn producers. Given variations in agaritine levels in existing strains, a breeding program for creating agaritine free strains is a task preeminently achievable in the near future. Certainly the button mushroom industry has clear economic and ethical incentives for doing so."

Research Links: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

From:https://steemit.com/health/@kennysk...oms-without-cooking-them-at-high-temperatures
 

schultz

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Awesome. Very helpful!

you can fry it with butter after boiling it. That gives some of its unique mushroom taste back, makes it tasty.

I will try this. I have tried boiling several times and it gives me tremendous gas whereas if I fry them to death I handle them no problem, and they taste better. Maybe boiling and then frying will be good. Could be the butter I fry them in helping digestion.
 

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Rehydrate dried shiitake, slice, irradiated with uv lamp, fry in coconut oil, add to dishes I make.
 

Dave Clark

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Do we have to worry about agaritine in mushroom powders or extracts, or does the processing take car of that? It's my understanding that steam or heat is needed in the processing to break down the cell walls in properly prepared powders or extracts, which should degrade the agaritine. Some producers test for agaritine in their final products, like Aloha Medicinals.
 
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Logan-

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Do we have to worry about agaritine in mushroom powders or extracts, or does the processing take car of that? It

I think it depends on the processing of the mushrooms. If they boil them for one to three hours, like Ray Peat recommends, then I'd think it safe regarding the agaritine content.
 
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EtienneAmelie

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Apparently people eat mushrooms raw (I've seen it with my own eyes!) which is just weird IMO.

It's a common "entrée" in France. We eat our "champignons de Paris" (white button mushrooms) cut very thin, with a seasoning made of oil/vinegar/parsley/grated cheese. I used to find it quite tasty, before I learned about those toxic compounds.
 

schultz

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It's a common "entrée" in France. We eat our "champignons de Paris" (white button mushrooms) cut very thin, with a seasoning made of oil/vinegar/parsley/grated cheese. I used to find it quite tasty, before I learned about those toxic compounds.

I did not know that. When I think of mushrooms in French cuisine I think "Coq au Vin" or "Beouf Bourguignon". If I make either of these dishes, I fry the mushrooms ahead of time then add them, together with the prepared onions, and cook them with the meat, so they are cooked for quite a while it seems (fried, then braised).
 

ddjd

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ive heard lions mane mushrooms have some pretty powerful benefits
 
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Logan-

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ive heard lions mane mushrooms have some pretty powerful benefits

I've read that too, especially for cerebral health.Thanks for sharing.

Here are some review articles (with scientific studies) on it:

This Mushroom Stimulates Nerve Growth & May Reverse Alzheimer's Symptoms

Lion's mane mushrooms: Benefits and side effects

Int J Biol Macromol. 2017 Apr;97:228-237. doi: 10.1016/j.ijbiomac.2017.01.040. Epub 2017 Jan 10.
Structures, biological activities, and industrial applications of the polysaccharides from Hericium erinaceus (Lion's Mane) mushroom: A review.
He X1, Wang X2, Fang J2, Chang Y3, Ning N3, Guo H3, Huang L4, Huang X3, Zhao Z2.
Author information
Abstract

Hericium erinaceus (Bull.) Pers., also known as Yamabushitake, Houtou and Lion's Mane, is capable of fortifying the spleen and nourishing the stomach, tranquilizing the mind, and fighting cancer. Over the past decade, it has been demonstrated that H. erinaceus polysaccharides possess various promising bioactivities, including antitumor and immunomodulation, anti-gastric ulcer, neuroprotection and neuroregeneration, anti-oxidation and hepatoprotection, anti-hyperlipidemia, anti-hyperglycemia, anti-fatigue and anti-aging. The purpose of the present review is to provide systematically reorganized information on extraction and purification, structure characteristics, biological activities, and industrial applications of H. erinaceus polysaccharides to support their therapeutic potentials and sanitarian functions.

He, X., Wang, X., Fang, J., Chang, Y., Ning, N., Guo, H., … Zhao, Z. (2017). Structures, biological activities, and industrial applications of the polysaccharides from Hericium erinaceus (Lion’s Mane) mushroom: A review. International Journal of Biological Macromolecules, 97, 228–237. doi:10.1016/j.ijbiomac.2017.01.040

There are many in vivo studies with this mushroom in PubMed.

Lions-Mane-7815bb49-cc88-4216-8ed3-19dacf8f3e2b.jpg



Overview:
Lion’s Mane is a mushroom with neuroprotective and nootropic effects. Lion’s Mane can improve memory and reasoning.

Scientific Name:
Hericium erinaceus

Mechanisms:
      • Increases NGF levels in the brain – enhanced neuronal growth, regeneration and synaptic plasticity[1]
      • Improves myelination – enhanced neuronal communication and nerve regeneration[2]
      • Increases long-term synaptic potentiation – improved memory[3,4]
      • Decreases glutamatergic transmission – decreased neuronal excitability and excitotoxicity[3,4]
      • Protects neurons from endoplasmic reticulum stress[3,4]
      • Anxiolytic[5]
      • Anti-inflammatory effects[6]
More Info:
References
[1] Lai PL, et al (2013). Neurotrophic properties of the Lion’s mane medicinal mushroom, Hericium erinaceus (Higher Basidiomycetes) from Malaysia. Int J Med Mushrooms, 15(6):539-54. doi: 10.1615/IntJMedMushr.v15.i6.30
[2] Kolotushkina EV, et al (2003). The influence of Hericium erinaceus extract on myelination process in vitro. Fiziol Zh, 49(1):38-45. PMID: 12675022
[3] Phan CW, et al (2015). Therapeutic potential of culinary-medicinal mushrooms for the management of neurodegenerative diseases: diversity, metabolite, and mechanism. Crit Rev Biotechnol, 35(3):355-68. doi: 10.3109/07388551.2014.887649
[4] Sabaratnam V, et al (2013). Neuronal health – can culinary and medicinal mushrooms help? J Tradit Complement Med, 3(1):62-8. doi: 10.4103/2225-4110.106549
[5] Nagano M, et al (2010). Reduction of depression and anxiety by 4 weeks Hericium erinaceus intake. Biomed Res, 31(4):231-7. doi: 10.2220/biomedres.31.231
[6] Geng Y, et al (2014). Anti-inflammatory activity of mycelial extracts from medicinal mushrooms. Int J Med Mushrooms, 16(4):319-25. doi: 10.1615/IntJMedMushrooms.v16.i4.20
From: Lion’s Mane - Neurohacker Collective

There are lion's mane supplements on amazon, here's one: https://www.amazon.com/Host-Defense-Mushroom-Capsules-Cerebral/dp/B002WJ2ALO?th=1

Seems very interesting. The company that produces the product above belongs to Paul Stamets.

Paul is the author of six books (including Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save The World, Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms, and Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World), he has discovered and named numerous new species of psilocybin mushrooms, and is the founder and owner of Fungi Perfecti, LLC, makers of the Host Defense Mushrooms (www.hostdefense.com) supplement line.
From: About Us

Question:
What makes this product better than cheaper Lion's Mane products?
Answer:
Paul Stamets is what makes this product better than cheaper lion’s mane products.
From:https://www.amazon.com/Host-Defense-Mushroom-Capsules-Cerebral/dp/B002WJ2ALO?th=1

Paul Stamets spoke very highly of it in the Joe Rogan podcast. I highly suggest listening to this:

 
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Could you share your views and/or experiences with mushrooms other than white button mushrooms?

I have read quite good things about shiitake mushrooms, for example. There are many other types of mushrooms that are interesting, I want to learn your experiences and ideas about them, regarding their benefits, the proper methods of preparation, their taste, their safety etc.
Could you share your views and/or experiences with mushrooms other than white button mushrooms?

I have read quite good things about shiitake mushrooms, for example. There are many other types of mushrooms that are interesting, I want to learn your experiences and ideas about them, regarding their benefits, the proper methods of preparation, their taste, their safety etc.
Besides well cooked button mushrooms, mushrooms are not "Peaty". With that being said, I do make exceptions for these dried maitake mushrooms from Vitacost because of their impressive amount of vitamin D, which comes in handy during the cold months ?
 

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Dave Clark

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CostCo, in my area, has Shitake mushrooms dried like a snack, by a company called Snak Yard. Interestingly, they hardly have a mushroom taste, but they are seasoned with spices, salt, etc. Not a bad snack if you are looking to get in some mushrooms without cooking them, or an alternative to a chip type snack. They are crispy and crunchy, not mushy.
 

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