Osteoarthritis, PRP and Supplements

MunenMuso

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
11
Hello,

My mother has been suffering from osteoarthritis (OA) in the fingers of her hands for the past 4-5 years.

To make a long story short, in the beginning, I started giving her glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM (in efficacious quantities) which slowed down the progression a bit.

Yes, I'm aware that these 3 supplements are a polarising topic without a scientific consensus, even though there are quite a few anecdotes sprinkled throughout the infobahn.

She's also been supplementing with cholecalciferol (D3) and MK7 (K2).

However, the OA kept progressing further.

As I've been living far away from her (a different country) for the past 6 years and she's a little warrior that keeps to herself, I didn't realise how much the OA has progressed.

Recently, I saw her fingers while video talking and became really worried. She's is still relatively young (57 years old) and she's in fantastic physical shape.

She plays sports and does traditional dance practise 4 times a week. Her diet is really solid with a lot of whole foods and a ton of vegetables.

She's ~5'2 (158 cm) and she's around 105 pounds (48 kg). She's been like that her entire life. Never been overweight or anything like that.

Just wanted to give that as context.

The moment I saw her current OA condition, I immediately sent her to the best MRI doctor in town.

Paid for a private MRI scan of her fingers (which is a very uncommon thing to do) but they did it.

The results came as Phase 2 Osteoarthritis. Phase 7 seems to be the last and most damaged state of OA. So, I still have hope.

It's not rheumatoid arthritis. I sent her to a rheumatologist and did the proper blood work. The results came negative. It's definitely OA.

After that, I immediately sent her to one of my best friend's private clinic, who recently started carrying out PRP injections there.

They gave her 8 PRP injections total - 6 in the most damaged fingers and 2 in the wrists (because the MRI showed that the wrists are also starting to get inflamed).

She saw a significant improvement from the PRP even 24 hours after the treatment.

So, I'll be sending her to that clinic 4 times a year (every 3 months).

That's it up to now.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what can be done further?

I've read all of @haidut posts on OA and they are extremely informative. Благодаря ти хайдуте! : )

Every single reply is genuinely appreciated!

Thank you all!
 
Last edited:
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MunenMuso

MunenMuso

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
11
I didn't want to make my initial post too long.

So I'll add a tidbit of additional info here.

I'm currently compounding an OA topical lotion for her as I have experience in compounding topical pharmaceuticals.

The lotion will consist entirely of essential oils which have merit in treating inflammation and pain.

It will consist of:

2 - 5% Mentha Piperita
2 - 5% Zingiber Officinale
2 - 5% Piper Nigrum
2 - 5% Curcuma Longa
2 - 5% Juniperus Communis

+

Jojoba oil as a base

I'll also compound a topical glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM and resveratrol serum.

All of them are with a molecular weight of <500 daltons.

Hence, I reckon they will be able to absorb through the skin.

There is some clinical literature backing the transdermal application of glucosamine and chondroitin.

EDIT: By the way, if these topicals have some merit, I'm happy to send some for free to whoever wants to test them for muscle/joint pain relief.
 

GreenTrails

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
169
I didn't want to make my initial post too long.

So I'll add a tidbit of additional info here.

I'm currently compounding an OA topical lotion for her as I have experience in compounding topical pharmaceuticals.

The lotion will consist entirely of essential oils which have merit in treating inflammation and pain.

It will consist of:

2 - 5% Mentha Piperita
2 - 5% Zingiber Officinale
2 - 5% Piper Nigrum
2 - 5% Curcuma Longa
2 - 5% Juniperus Communis

+

Jojoba oil as a base

I'll also compound a topical glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM and resveratrol serum.

All of them are with a molecular weight of <500 daltons.

Hence, I reckon they will be able to absorb through the skin.

There is some clinical literature backing the transdermal application of glucosamine and chondroitin.

EDIT: By the way, if these topicals have some merit, I'm happy to send some for free to whoever wants to test them for muscle/joint pain relief.
MunenMuso, you obviously know a lot, and that's so good of you to want to help your mother. I hope your topical lotion works for her.

Thanks for your post.

I also have osteoarthritis, mostly in my fingers. I wonder, you said she eats "a ton of vegetables". Have you considered the effect of oxalates, phytates and lectins on her body? I'm beginning to think that foods that contain these anti-nutrients are partly the cause of osteoarthritis. For several years, I have eaten a "solid" diet with lots of vegetables. I'm also very active physically and have never been overweight.

I remember years ago in a nutrition university class, reading about phytates and `oxalates. It seemed important to me to know about that, but I didn't pay a lot of attention. Now I'm thinking these things are very important.
 

Mito

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
2,554
If you type Osteoarthritis in the search here (Ray Peat Search) you can listen to what Ray says about it. He mentions things like endotoxin and estrogen.
 
OP
MunenMuso

MunenMuso

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
11
MunenMuso, you obviously know a lot, and that's so good of you to want to help your mother. I hope your topical lotion works for her.

Thanks for your post.

I also have osteoarthritis, mostly in my fingers. I wonder, you said she eats "a ton of vegetables". Have you considered the effect of oxalates, phytates and lectins on her body? I'm beginning to think that foods that contain these anti-nutrients are partly the cause of osteoarthritis. For several years, I have eaten a "solid" diet with lots of vegetables. I'm also very active physically and have never been overweight.

I remember years ago in a nutrition university class, reading about phytates and `oxalates. It seemed important to me to know about that, but I didn't pay a lot of attention. Now I'm thinking these things are very important.
Hey,

First of all thanks so much for reading these long posts of mine. I really appreciate it.

I'm really sorry to hear you suffer from arthritis in the fingers as well. I'll be more than happy to send you a couple of months supply of this serum+cream combo that I'm gonna create soon, so you can try it out. Maybe it will help you!

I should be able to compound it and have it ready in the next 4-5 months. I need to pinpoint the actual formula first, source only the highest quality 3rd-party tested ingredients with CoAs. Then I will test it on myself for at least 30-60 days before I send it to my mother. I don't want to give her something that's not tested.

If you're still around on this forum, I'll message you and send you some if you'd like. It's not gonna be a problem at all.

I'm gonna be adding more ingredients, such as GHK-Cu, taurine and more which I personally use and know they have merit. And now I discovered they have empirical data backing them for osteoarthritis as well.

So, this should be virtually the most potent topical for OA. Or at least I can't see anything else that even comes close.

Even if it only slightly slows the progression of OA, it's still a win for me.

Also, you've raised a great point. Oxalates can wreak havoc not only on your joints but kidneys and more.

I've instructed my mother about this long ago and she avoids high-oxalates foods like spinach.

So, that shouldn't be the problem.

But for everyone that doesn't know about oxalates, definitely look into the topic.

Thank you!
 
OP
MunenMuso

MunenMuso

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
11
What blood tests were done, do you know them by name?
Hey, Thanks a lot for reading my long posts!

She went to the best rheumatologist in the city.

He diagnosed her with symmetrical polyarthritis in the fingers.

And to exclude rheumatoid arthritis, they did a rheumatoid factor (RF) test which came back as negative.

Plus, they did a whole host of general health tests (which she does privately once a year anyway).

And everything came back normal.

So, it's definitely OA.
 
OP
MunenMuso

MunenMuso

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
11
If you type Osteoarthritis in the search here (Ray Peat Search) you can listen to what Ray says about it. He mentions things like endotoxin and estrogen.

Hey!

Thanks for that!

I've already looked at these extensively.

But I'm still gonna keep reading them and @haidut 's posts in the days to come, just so I don't miss anything.

Thanks!

And that study with the collagen peptides is very interesting. I didn't know about that!

I know that mere collagen is pretty much useless but not sure if collagen peptides are the same thing, nor if they have therapeutic promise.

I'll look into it.

Thanks!!
 

GreenTrails

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
169
Hey,

First of all thanks so much for reading these long posts of mine. I really appreciate it.

I'm really sorry to hear you suffer from arthritis in the fingers as well. I'll be more than happy to send you a couple of months supply of this serum+cream combo that I'm gonna create soon, so you can try it out. Maybe it will help you!

I should be able to compound it and have it ready in the next 4-5 months. I need to pinpoint the actual formula first, source only the highest quality 3rd-party tested ingredients with CoAs. Then I will test it on myself for at least 30-60 days before I send it to my mother. I don't want to give her something that's not tested.

If you're still around on this forum, I'll message you and send you some if you'd like. It's not gonna be a problem at all.

I'm gonna be adding more ingredients, such as GHK-Cu, taurine and more which I personally use and know they have merit. And now I discovered they have empirical data backing them for osteoarthritis as well.

So, this should be virtually the most potent topical for OA. Or at least I can't see anything else that even comes close.

Even if it only slightly slows the progression of OA, it's still a win for me.

Also, you've raised a great point. Oxalates can wreak havoc not only on your joints but kidneys and more.

I've instructed my mother about this long ago and she avoids high-oxalates foods like spinach.

So, that shouldn't be the problem.

But for everyone that doesn't know about oxalates, definitely look into the topic.

Thank you!
That's very kind of you. Thank you very much!
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
Hey!

Thanks for that!

I've already looked at these extensively.

But I'm still gonna keep reading them and @haidut 's posts in the days to come, just so I don't miss anything.

Thanks!

And that study with the collagen peptides is very interesting. I didn't know about that!

I know that mere collagen is pretty much useless but not sure if collagen peptides are the same thing, nor if they have therapeutic promise.

I'll look into it.

Thanks!!

Hey man, i wanted to bump this because i was wondering where your research led you and if you were able to help your mom.

Mine currently has this issue too and told me about the pain in her fingers and i realy want to help her. I'll look into more RPF posts and do more research on my own ofcourse but i was curious how things went for your mom.
 

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