Orthodoxy And The Religion Of The Future

[charlie]

There is no “rapture”.

Bingo.

The rapture is an innovative deception that’s only appeared in the past few centuries

A lady actually had a hallucination or vision and told a couple preachers or priests and they ran with it. I forget her name and the exact details, but it was in the 1800's I think. Satan is using the rapture doctrine to herd all the unsuspecting Christians right into his hands when he shows up telling everyone he is Christ. Sad.

There is one general resurrection where all men are judged together after Christ’s coming and this fallen world/age ends.

The White Throne Judgement at the end of the 1000 year Millennial Reign. Some will blotted out, while others will move into the Eternity with YHVH Shammah.

 

[Blossom]

The Rapture Plot | Download eBook pdf, epub, tuebl, mobi

 

[marcar72]

Satan is using the rapture doctrine to herd all the unsuspecting Christians right into his hands when he shows up telling everyone he is Christ. Sad.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The White Throne Judgement at the end of the 1000 year Millennial Reign.

A judgment of which the criteria is based on works. Salvation during the Church Age is by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[marcar72]

For those of you with eyes to see and ears to hear!!

 

[Gone Peating]

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.



A judgment of which the criteria is based on works. Salvation during the Church Age is by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead shall rise first, and then everyone who is alive on earth at that time will witness this and then also be transformed into our final spiritual bodies together with the dead who arose. There won’t be a group left on earth being tormented. Christ will slay the Antichrist when he returns! And the world will pass away immediately. And then all men will be judged “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”

We must ALL appear before the judgment seat, together. Also on the faith v works issue, it’s not either or but faith and works together

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!†
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[ken]

I've always had a soft spot for dancing Deacons.

 

[gately]

Sorry, but anyone who claims they believe in an any form of benevolent divine intervention (which is absolutely a requirement to Orthodox Christianity) is delusional at best and a charlatan at worst.

Seraphim Rose explored the worst aspects of Western influenced Eastern Religion and determined (correctly) they were hot garbage. Of course Orthodox Christianity was a step in the right direction compared to the deluge of crap pseudo-religion he had explored! But he never found real answers so he settled for the closest thing to truth he could find. For example, his refutation of Buddhism is downright hilarious: goes to a zen monastery, gets ***t zen teachings mixed with some weird **** Mahayana “Cosmic Buddha” doctrine, determines it’s Christianity Lite, then goes for the “real deal” in Orthodox.

Had he earnestly explored Zoroastrianism, Theravada Buddhism, or Jainism...the only religions I’m aware of that do not believe in a benevolent interventionist God, this thread wouldn’t exist. Or maybe he just didn’t have the chops to accept the truth. It’s not easy cutting the cord to imaginary divine benevolence.

 

[marcar72]

The dead shall rise first, and then everyone who is alive on earth at that time will witness this and then also be transformed into our final spiritual bodies together with the dead who arose.

The dead IN CHRIST will rise first. Born again believers who were baptized INTO the body of Christ but died physically before the harpazo. Then we who are alive and remain (born again believers) shall be caught up (harpazo/rapture) together with them in the clouds. (heaven) It's the Body of Christ (Church) that is resurrected/translated and ascended into heaven.

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!†
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

This is not Church Age doctrine. It's written to Jews who will find themselves in Daniel's 70th week.

 

[gately]

Imma rant some more and if that rustles some feathers, oh well. I’m open to debating anyone who feels like it. I mean no one ill will, but seeing so much (in my view) Bastardized Christianity in Ray Peat circles lately has really got my goat (milk.)

Any defense of the existence of benevolent divine intervention in the face of child sex slavery (for instance) is pretty callous and/or ignorant, IMO.

You really going to tell me a child that’s raped to death is a part of “God’s plan” and expect a reasonable thinking person not to judge the crap out of your belief system?

Someone who defends the existence of benevolent divine intervention either hasn’t suffered enough, hasn’t reflected on suffering enough, hasn’t earnestly explored the possibility that such a thing doesn’t exist ( ie - Theravada Buddhism), or is incapable of self-honesty and thus can’t be helped to see the Truth. Every Christian I’ve ever encountered falls into one or more of these categories. I’m sorry if that offends you.

There’s nothing new age or nihilistic with accepting the truth about our prison reality and way out of it through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. If being a Christian (or anything else under the Sun) leads you to those things, it is a “good” religion. If it doesn’t, it’s the work of Mara / Satan. That simple.

That is the central teaching of Christ in the synoptic gospels btw: to be perfect in our love, virtue, and faith.

Only when we get to John, written at least a generation later, who literally identifies Jesus as the LOGOS, do we get this ridiculous line: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

And thus stems all forms of bastardized Christianity, starting right with Paul.

Jesus taught perfect love and perfect virtue and perfect faith. This is the path of saints in whatever you call your “religion.” I think that’s plain to see, and I challenge anyone who doesn’t believe so to go spend some time with some religious Sikhs and tell me they aren’t some of the most holy men and women the world has ever seen!

So now, because of John and Paul, instead of Christians behaving even remotely like Jesus taught us to we get corrupted religions FROM THE VERY START OF THE CREED teaching the exact opposite of what’s plain for all to read for themselves in the synoptic gospels, from the early Church killing “heretics” to Modern day Evangelicals thinking someone goes to eternal hell because even though they lived a perfectly righteous and holy life in some other religion, they never accepted John and Paul’s doctrine so off you go to hell, dummy, buh bye!

Absolutely absurd, imo.

And for those Christians who think inherent goodness is impossible without the assistance of a divine higher power and thus the “just be good doctrine of Zoroastrianism and Theravada Buddhism” is experientially weak to you: well, then that’s where faith comes in doesn’t it? Nothing wrong with faith to carry you. Just don’t cast away those who don’t need it in the same way YOU did. Anyone who isn’t against you, is for you...remember?

 

[gately]

Ah screw it, more ranting cause I'm an endotoxin fueled insomniac. I'll tie this all in with Seraphim Rose, I promise.

For fear that some might take my comments to think I mean no form of spiritual intervention is possible, let me clarify: I think a subtle form spiritual benevolent intervention is POSSIBLE in the form of purely (and my mean PURELY) spiritual protection, which I'lll get to in a moment, and I believe demonic intervention is not only possible, but extremely commonplace. This is their world, after all:

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

We live in a dark world, run by powerful dark forces. I think that's plain by anyone on this forum to see. And if you can't see it, then one only needs to take a dalliance into the darker spiritual traditions to come face to face with an experience that will prove to you, without a shadow of a doubt, that demons are real. Heck, you don't even need to mess with the dark arts. Just let hate and lust flow through you for long enough and take some sleeping pills and you'll probably slip into a state of being where you can "see" the beings that feed off our negative emotions. You might think it's the sleep hag or something goofy like a sex demon, but hey...now you've been warned. Google "Hat Man Demon" for a good internet rabbit hole if you don't believe me.

Now as far as Rose's beliefs about UFOs, I'm sure some of you Christians will find it delightfully empowering to know that one of the only proven (anecdotally speaking) ways to STOP "abductions" is to call on Jesus' name. This has reportedly worked even for those who have had a lifetime of "abduction" events. There's even entire organizations now dedicated to spreading this information, that's how effective it is, even for non-believers! (Go ahead and google them.) Of course, the UFO crowd-at-large laughs at these organizations, calling them evangelical opportunists or what have you, but they are 100% legitimate, I assure you. I think the fact that "ETs" flee at Christ's name speaks volumes as to what the supposed "ETs" really are, don't you?

I say this because it seems pretty evident there is power in the spirit of Christ, or at least His name. But we have to be honest with ourselves with what the limits are to that power? Can it affect the material world in any meaningful way? Can we heal from disease with it? Can we save those trapped in slavery with it? It would appear not. So let's not be delusional. What we know from the Anti-Abduction folks is this: demons do not like his name. They flee from it. But plenty of people are calling on Christ RIGHT NOW all across the planet to save themselves or others they love from some unimaginable suffering, even some with great righteousness and great faith, and they aren't being saved in the slightest from whatever torments them: be it disease, slavery, oppression, or torture.

And to those who disagree: What is the magic key then, that allows my prayer through Christ's name to reach God's ears and saves a child from sexual slavery? Or what is the magic key that enables my Christian prayer to effectively save a child from brain cancer? You get my point. Because if you say faith, you know you damn well you are a liar. Pray with your perfect faith then for my Crohn's disease to heal and I'm plenty confident I'll send you a PM every week or so letting you know the disease is still rampantly killing me, and that your faith is either flawed, or based on a lie...you decide how deep the flaming sword of truth will cut you.

Now I'll admit here, as olive branch to my Christian friendos: this has been one of the most confounding aspects of my exploration of Christianity (for me), because I've experienced the seeming spiritual protection of calling on Christ myself, but only in nightmares. In my waking life, I've never found any protection that doesn't come from within, and that isn't rooted in my compassion and virtue. I've had enough rare spiritual experiences to fill a book, because despite great physical suffering, I've also been blessed to have an extraordinarily spiritually rich life, but my sole experience with the demonic, as far as I'm aware, took place in a hospital, doped on more meds I could count, in a horrible Crohn's flare. I awoke to see what I could only assume was a demon feeding off my pain and anger whilst somehow infusing me with a terror beyond words, and intuitively, almost instantly, I felt this entity must have suffered tremendously to want to feed off other's anger and pain, and I reached out my hand and simply asked, "Can I help you? Man, are you OK?" The demon roared fire at me and vanished. It seemed to hate my compassion, and just fled. That was a six years ago and I haven't seen anything remotely like it since.

I later learned that the very method I used is taught at buddhist monasteries throughout South-East Asia. Supposedly, though, only lessor demons flee at compassion. The big dogs just laugh at our empathy, and need to be dealt with some degree of authority, perhaps, such as the authority of Christ...I do not know. But there's my olive branch.

 

[Mary Lyn]

Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Seraphim Rose

I have just read this book and am very pleased to have done so as I agree with Fr Rose entirely and it is a first for that! Everything that I have been studying and my own discernment have led to me the same conclusions apart from seeing that Orthodoxy is the religion of the future but I see it now.

I was misled because of my personal contact with some Orthodox priests which led to them shunning me but as Fr Rose says, many of those are not 'in the light' as it were. In the book I found something I have been searching for, and that is a list of Orthodox writers who were perfected and their writings which | will now seek for. Thank you very much for this.

 

[Peater]

@gately I'm enjoying your posts mate. They're thought-provoking

 

[LUH 3417]

Imma rant some more and if that rustles some feathers, oh well. I’m open to debating anyone who feels like it. I mean no one ill will, but seeing so much (in my view) Bastardized Christianity in Ray Peat circles lately has really got my goat (milk.)

Any defense of the existence of benevolent divine intervention in the face of child sex slavery (for instance) is pretty callous and/or ignorant, IMO.

You really going to tell me a child that’s raped to death is a part of “God’s plan” and expect a reasonable thinking person not to judge the crap out of your belief system?

Someone who defends the existence of benevolent divine intervention either hasn’t suffered enough, hasn’t reflected on suffering enough, hasn’t earnestly explored the possibility that such a thing doesn’t exist ( ie - Theravada Buddhism), or is incapable of self-honesty and thus can’t be helped to see the Truth. Every Christian I’ve ever encountered falls into one or more of these categories. I’m sorry if that offends you.

There’s nothing new age or nihilistic with accepting the truth about our prison reality and way out of it through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. If being a Christian (or anything else under the Sun) leads you to those things, it is a “good” religion. If it doesn’t, it’s the work of Mara / Satan. That simple.

That is the central teaching of Christ in the synoptic gospels btw: to be perfect in our love, virtue, and faith.

Only when we get to John, written at least a generation later, who literally identifies Jesus as the LOGOS, do we get this ridiculous line: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

And thus stems all forms of bastardized Christianity, starting right with Paul.

Jesus taught perfect love and perfect virtue and perfect faith. This is the path of saints in whatever you call your “religion.” I think that’s plain to see, and I challenge anyone who doesn’t believe so to go spend some time with some religious Sikhs and tell me they aren’t some of the most holy men and women the world has ever seen!

So now, because of John and Paul, instead of Christians behaving even remotely like Jesus taught us to we get corrupted religions FROM THE VERY START OF THE CREED teaching the exact opposite of what’s plain for all to read for themselves in the synoptic gospels, from the early Church killing “heretics” to Modern day Evangelicals thinking someone goes to eternal hell because even though they lived a perfectly righteous and holy life in some other religion, they never accepted John and Paul’s doctrine so off you go to hell, dummy, buh bye!

Absolutely absurd, imo.

And for those Christians who think inherent goodness is impossible without the assistance of a divine higher power and thus the “just be good doctrine of Zoroastrianism and Theravada Buddhism” is experientially weak to you: well, then that’s where faith comes in doesn’t it? Nothing wrong with faith to carry you. Just don’t cast away those who don’t need it in the same way YOU did. Anyone who isn’t against you, is for you...remember?

To say that dark forces are the cause of the worlds evil absolves humans of their responsibility for anything. Why live by a moral compass when you’re just at the mercy of demons anyway? Abstracting human emotion and action into a demon just perpetuates the cycle of evil, as we continue to blame the supposed shadow with a fedora in the corner.

 

[Inaut]

“You really going to tell me a child that’s raped to death is a part of “God’s plan” and expect a reasonable thinking person not to judge the crap out of your belief system?”

I’ll only touch on this one point @gately.

Sadly(in reference to your example), we as people have been given free will and some people will use that free will to inflict harm and pain on others. I see that as evil and in direct opposition to God’s will which is very much a different thing completely. I read the rest of your posts and there’s a bit too much to unpack for me. I’ll leave it at that but thanks for sharing your opinions.

 

[Blossom]

I have just read this book and am very pleased to have done so as I agree with Fr Rose entirely and it is a first for that! Everything that I have been studying and my own discernment have led to me the same conclusions apart from seeing that Orthodoxy is the religion of the future but I see it now.

I was misled because of my personal contact with some Orthodox priests which led to them shunning me but as Fr Rose says, many of those are not 'in the light' as it were. In the book I found something I have been searching for, and that is a list of Orthodox writers who were perfected and their writings which | will now seek for. Thank you very much for this.

I’ve started reading it too and thoroughly enjoying it. Ironically I had already been reading Know The Faith in an effort to understand my friend’s beliefs as an Orthodox Christian.

 

[Gone Peating]

The dead IN CHRIST will rise first. Born again believers who were baptized INTO the body of Christ but died physically before the harpazo. Then we who are alive and remain (born again believers) shall be caught up (harpazo/rapture) together with them in the clouds. (heaven) It's the Body of Christ (Church) that is resurrected/translated and ascended into heaven.



1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

This is not Church Age doctrine. It's written to Jews who will find themselves in Daniel's 70th week.

The twelve tribes “scattered abroad” symbolizes the new Israel, the Church. The Apostles did not differentiate between Jews and other races in Church doctrine. That ethnic divide came to an end after Pentecost

And again this whole notion of “born again believers” as its believed in America is a modern innovation. No early Christians would have a clue what it means

 

[Gone Peating]

Sorry, but anyone who claims they believe in an any form of benevolent divine intervention (which is absolutely a requirement to Orthodox Christianity) is delusional at best and a charlatan at worst.

Seraphim Rose explored the worst aspects of Western influenced Eastern Religion and determined (correctly) they were hot garbage. Of course Orthodox Christianity was a step in the right direction compared to the deluge of crap pseudo-religion he had explored! But he never found real answers so he settled for the closest thing to truth he could find. For example, his refutation of Buddhism is downright hilarious: goes to a zen monastery, gets ***t zen teachings mixed with some weird **** Mahayana “Cosmic Buddha” doctrine, determines it’s Christianity Lite, then goes for the “real deal” in Orthodox.

Had he earnestly explored Zoroastrianism, Theravada Buddhism, or Jainism...the only religions I’m aware of that do not believe in a benevolent interventionist God, this thread wouldn’t exist. Or maybe he just didn’t have the chops to accept the truth. It’s not easy cutting the cord to imaginary divine benevolence.

Ok then what is the absolute truth, IN YOUR OPINION?
That right there is an absurdist notion in and of itself.

A child being raped is not in “God’s plan”. God’s plan is for us to return to our pre-fallen state of Paradise. We exist in a fallen world, and God does not will these things to happen, but allows them. He allows us to choose how to use our lives and what He has given us. It is the greatest gift bestowed to any creature in our world.

“There’s nothing new age or nihilistic with accepting the truth about our prison reality and way out of it through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds.“

This is your problem here. You take pride in your “good thoughts, words and deeds” as if they are your own and is if humans can be good on their own, and not only through the grace and revelation of our Creator, who is the source of every good thing. Nevertheless, you are not alone. We all suffer from this prideful delusion

 

[Mary Lyn]

And again this whole notion of “born again believers” as its believed in America is a modern innovation. No early Christians would have a clue what it means

Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:7

 

[Tbone107]

And again this whole notion of “born again believers” as its believed in America is a modern innovation. No early Christians would have a clue what it means

Galatians 2:21

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 4:1-5


What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


and I’d like to reiterate@marcar72 on

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 not of works, lest any man should boast.

I am recently born again and this is what makes my understanding clear for me.

I appreciate this discussion from both sides!

 

[Recoen]

I have just read this book and am very pleased to have done so as I agree with Fr Rose entirely and it is a first for that! Everything that I have been studying and my own discernment have led to me the same conclusions apart from seeing that Orthodoxy is the religion of the future but I see it now.

I was misled because of my personal contact with some Orthodox priests which led to them shunning me but as Fr Rose says, many of those are not 'in the light' as it were. In the book I found something I have been searching for, and that is a list of Orthodox writers who were perfected and their writings which | will now seek for. Thank you very much for this.

I’m currently reading all of Dostoevsky’s available English works, really great!

I found that God continued to bring Orthodoxy to me as well.