Orthodoxy And The Religion Of The Future

[Recoen]

I Can suggest a book for someone who want to understand the fight between the devil and the man in our lifes.Unseen warfare its the name and the writer is St. nikodimos from the holy mountain.Its a great book for those who want to get a glimpse how orthodoxy view the life and the way of salvation.

Unseen Warfare is great! Someone hasn’t been reading the chapters on YouTube. Here’s the playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLTPndCul60EcK8WRDSpQVZqQT6kRvSkd

 

[TheSir]

Sorry if it's a pretty basic thing but I have always wondered how it could be possible that free will really exists if all things are created by God.

God is omnipotent, omniscient (etc.) so how is it possible that we can do something that is not under his control?

Would your freedom to do anything within a game world necessarily translate to the ability to do something that the creators of the game did not account for (barring abusing bugs and glitches)? Free will is still free even if it exist within a pre-determined context. You being able to inflict pain on others is free will 'working as intended', as far as God the Developer saw it fit.

 

[Inaut]

Just recent thinking but if enough of us pray for God to deal with this covid stuff.... maybe it will change the direction we are going in? Maybe something happens to those trying to force vaccines and the Beast System on us..?? God can do anything He wills...

It may sound stupid/willfully ignorant but I think the demonic side is doing their best with the fear of the current situation and if enough of us not only wake up but reach out to God/Jesus Christ for help, this would end sooner then we know. I know all of us are expecting end times to come out of this but I was listening to something the other day that made sense. The end could be 1000 years from now for all we know.. 10000 years. I know that there are plenty of loving people on this earth, religious or not and God is with us all. One thing is certain and it is that we are falling away from God and our protection. Again just thinking out loud and mainly for those that believe in Christ (my message)

 

[charlie]

Just recent thinking but if enough of us pray for God to deal with this covid stuff.... maybe it will change the direction we are going in? Maybe something happens to those trying to force vaccines and the Beast System on us..?? God can do anything He wills...

It may sound stupid/willfully ignorant but I think the demonic side is doing their best with the fear of the current situation and if enough of us not only wake up but reach out to God/Jesus Christ for help, this would end sooner then we know. I know all of us are expecting end times to come out of this but I was listening to something the other day that made sense. The end could be 1000 years from now for all we know.. 10000 years. I know that there are plenty of loving people on this earth, religious or not and God is with us all. One thing is certain and it is that we are falling away from God and our protection. Again just thinking out loud and mainly for those that believe in Christ (my message)

2 Chronicles 7:14

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

 

[BMW1]

Here's the website for a book that my wife and I are currently reading which summarizes a lot of arguments in defense of Biblical Christianity which the author primarily gets from other authors and books: The Shortest Leap | A. L. van den Herik. This may be interesting to some here who are curious. I would also recommend the extensive works of Michael Heiser, Dr. Michael Heiser - Biblical Scholar | Author | Semitic Languages Expert and Craig Keener, https://craigkeener.com/ who are two of my favorite academic theologians.

 

[gately]

Just recent thinking but if enough of us pray for God to deal with this covid stuff.... maybe it will change the direction we are going in? Maybe something happens to those trying to force vaccines and the Beast System on us..?? God can do anything He wills...

It may sound stupid/willfully ignorant but I think the demonic side is doing their best with the fear of the current situation and if enough of us not only wake up but reach out to God/Jesus Christ for help, this would end sooner then we know. I know all of us are expecting end times to come out of this but I was listening to something the other day that made sense. The end could be 1000 years from now for all we know.. 10000 years. I know that there are plenty of loving people on this earth, religious or not and God is with us all. One thing is certain and it is that we are falling away from God and our protection. Again just thinking out loud and mainly for those that believe in Christ (my message)

You know, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have zero problem with beliefs in a conception of God that aren't omnipotent, such as the predecessor to your religion, Zoroastrianism. (Or, as I have argued, authentic Christianity.) And I'm not your target audience, as you stated. But I'm honestly just curious, and I honestly don't mean this in a combative way: what level of human suffering would be enough for you to deny the existence of an omnipotent AND interventionist God? Was the Holocaust not enough? Are children sold into sexual slavery who will never see an ounce of daylight in their short lives not enough?

Because it seems pretty self-evident to me that nothing is coming to save us in this material / earthly existence, and that nothing ever has, except, maybe, ourselves.

EDIT: Of course, I'm not saying Christ, for instance, can't save us in the sense that through Him we can attain the Kingdom of Heaven, or that faith / truth sets us free or what-have-you, just that He / God seems to be pretty slow to literally interact, in an interventionist way, with the material world, wouldn't you say?

 

[orangeUglad]

Satan has principalities, areas, and people that are completely controlled by him in this host body system we call life on earth...sprit of satan wants to steal, kill, and destroy...satan is powerful..and causes much suffering here on his playground. Earth is like the board game where Satan and God fight to win souls into their kingdoms. There is good and evil here...pain and happiness... I believe our God Jesus Christ has authority over Satan...then one may wonder "well if God has authority over satan why doesn't he instantly save all the people who are being tormented here on earth? Why would God do such a thing and be so heartless to let them suffer?" This would be my answer to a question like that: this earth is a board game host body system....I believe it's so much deeper that just blaming God for allowing people to suffer...why aren't we blaming Satan?!?! Why are we acting like victims to God and why aren't we taking our swords of faith, and our vessels filled with the Holy Spirit (we are the church) and working to demolish the evil enemy?! We have the power and authroity to stop suffering and evil through His Holy Spirit in us in this board game..God lives!! God is alive through us here on earth when we accept the Holy Spirit into us and it's our duty and we have the power and authroity to dismantle, uproot, and cast out the enemy!!!. we get in this cry baby mindset at the fact that God is allowing people to suffer (or even allowing us ourselves to suffer) but do we ever stop and think "wait maybe I should get off my butt and do something about this cause didn't God give us the powerful gift of the Holy Spirit in us to fight the enemy and shouldn't we be using this gift against the enemy to destroy suffering and evil caused by Satan!?!" It blows my mind so many Christians are just sitting around not using this power and authroity Christ has given us through Him!!! Pretty foolish of us if U ask me! Lol! We have to learn to exert that authority we have over satan through our Lord Jesus Christ. We need to USE our authority we have in Christ Jesus to dismantle the evil and suffering satan is causing here on earth...many Christians I don't think realize or understand that authroity we have over the enemy or realize we are here for a reason and it's part of our duty as God's children to FIGHT the evil enemy here. In Christ Jesus we have the power to save souls in this host body system..the power of praying in the name of Jesus is supernatural and the more we do it the more we can dismantle and break the grounds the enemy has claimed...Spiritual warefare is real. Ever since accepting the Holy Spirit you wouldn't believe the sneaky things Satan has been throwing my way to try to get me back. And right after I got saved my dear friend/coworker who had been praying for me all along is now getting MAJOR spiritual attacks...@Inaut I absolutely believe if enough Christians were to pray and weild our swords of faith with confidence through Christ Jesus we could dismantle satans evil coronavirus manifestation.

 

[TheSir]

what level of human suffering would be enough for you to deny the existence of an omnipotent AND interventionist God? Was the Holocaust not enough? Are children sold into sexual slavery who will never see an ounce of daylight in their short lives not enough?

I suspect you are mistaken about the form God's interventionism is supposed to take. God's modus operandi is not to stop physical suffering, but to turn us away from the path to spiritual destruction. Oftentimes suffering can become a vessel for this aim, for it is suffering that leads us to seek God moreso than bliss. Furthermore, God is generally not going to intervene with someone's free will, as he loves and respects man enough to allow him to choose the wrong thing (in the end, allowing your child to choose the wrong thing is more loving than forcing them to choose the right thing). If someone wants to exercise his free will by committing genocide or sexual slavery, that is their right. It's not right, but it's a right.

 

[Inaut]

A little humor for the readers of this thread (and it ties into the evangelical - speaking in tongues section of the book)...
This guy looks possessed

 

[outcast1979]

A little humor for the readers of this thread (and it ties into the evangelical - speaking in tongues section of the book)...
This guy looks possessed

Street fighter goes well with religion

 

[Inaut]

It all begins with Genesis and if we don’t understand creation, we miss a large part of the bible, Jesus and our salvation through Him. Really interesting video and based on the church Fathers and even Seraphim Rose’s book on Genesis (which runs over $1000 now...)

 

[marcar72]

(and it ties into the evangelical - speaking in tongues section of the book)...

Cessationism is the biblical doctrine that most evangelicals adhere to. Kenneth Copeland is a word of faith/charismatic heretick.

 

[Mary Lyn]

@Recoen

Thank you for the videos you posted by Vladyka Jonah. I had been searching for a long time for someone teaching the triplex via without success after reading about it from early catholic sources:

'The Doctrine of the Triplex Via is central to the Christian mystical tradition. Encountering its origins in the De Divinis Nominibus of Dionysius the Areopagite and reaching its apotheosis in the tradition of St. John of the Cross, the Triplex Via in St. Thomas Aquinas is a privileged instance of his transcendence of Aristotelian essentialism. St. The teaching combines epistemological and metaphysical considerations because it insists that whatever intelligibility man affirms of God is in strict proportion to the radical inscrutability of His Being. The thesis advanced in this note argues that the Triplex Via is an indispensable methodological principle for the future progress of metaphysics. St. Thomas Aquinas worked the Triplex Via into two specifically epistemological dimensions of his own teaching. The act of conceptualizing issuing into simple understanding, intentionally reiterates natures or essences. The second epistemological consideration is Aquinas' insistence that only judgment grasps existent reality.'

'Being and Knowing', Reflections of a Thomist ByFrederick D. Wilhelmsen

I do believe that because of Vladyka Jonah that it is found in the church fathers but I have yet to research it and there is little to find in conducting a search.. It is the three steps to union with God: conviction, illumination and union, obtainable in this life. However, I am not finding many present teachings in Orthodoxy that perfection is to found in this life. All I am reading is the teachers are desiring it. The problem is, that if they have not attained it themselves, they cannot guide others,: the blind cannot lead the blind.

It seems to me that present day teaching is legalistic, that is to say, that practicing spiritual exercises like fasting and prayer will lead one to perfection, but this is not what the triplex via is saying. Then it would be one step - a gradual one. But this is what is taught in the rest of Christendom, one gradually becomes more and more like Christ.

It is not what |I see in experience, and not how I interpret the scripture. For example, in Galatians 3: 1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So Paul is saying that it is by faith. That faith is in believing in what Christ achieved for us on the cross 2,000 years ago, that we are crucified with Him (if we have consented and therefore submitted to absolute rule by Him). If so then He lives in us and we are united with Him and perfected.

It is desperately needed today to overcome Satan. To be impervious to him and his lies we must have submitted to Christ before he will flee from us. If the Orthodox church is to be the future for mankind then we must have those who are perfected so that they can lead others into this blessed state.

 

[Recoen]

@Recoen

Thank you for the videos you posted by Vladyka Jonah. I had been searching for a long time for someone teaching the triplex via without success after reading about it from early catholic sources:

'The Doctrine of the Triplex Via is central to the Christian mystical tradition. Encountering its origins in the De Divinis Nominibus of Dionysius the Areopagite and reaching its apotheosis in the tradition of St. John of the Cross, the Triplex Via in St. Thomas Aquinas is a privileged instance of his transcendence of Aristotelian essentialism. St. The teaching combines epistemological and metaphysical considerations because it insists that whatever intelligibility man affirms of God is in strict proportion to the radical inscrutability of His Being. The thesis advanced in this note argues that the Triplex Via is an indispensable methodological principle for the future progress of metaphysics. St. Thomas Aquinas worked the Triplex Via into two specifically epistemological dimensions of his own teaching. The act of conceptualizing issuing into simple understanding, intentionally reiterates natures or essences. The second epistemological consideration is Aquinas' insistence that only judgment grasps existent reality.'

'Being and Knowing', Reflections of a Thomist ByFrederick D. Wilhelmsen

I do believe that because of Vladyka Jonah that it is found in the church fathers but I have yet to research it and there is little to find in conducting a search.. It is the three steps to union with God: conviction, illumination and union, obtainable in this life. However, I am not finding many present teachings in Orthodoxy that perfection is to found in this life. All I am reading is the teachers are desiring it. The problem is, that if they have not attained it themselves, they cannot guide others,: the blind cannot lead the blind.

It seems to me that present day teaching is legalistic, that is to say, that practicing spiritual exercises like fasting and prayer will lead one to perfection, but this is not what the triplex via is saying. Then it would be one step - a gradual one. But this is what is taught in the rest of Christendom, one gradually becomes more and more like Christ.

It is not what |I see in experience, and not how I interpret the scripture. For example, in Galatians 3: 1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So Paul is saying that it is by faith. That faith is in believing in what Christ achieved for us on the cross 2,000 years ago, that we are crucified with Him (if we have consented and therefore submitted to absolute rule by Him). If so then He lives in us and we are united with Him and perfected.

It is desperately needed today to overcome Satan. To be impervious to him and his lies we must have submitted to Christ before he will flee from us. If the Orthodox church is to be the future for mankind then we must have those who are perfected so that they can lead others into this blessed state.

Orthodoxy is by faith and acts - the middle road in many ways.

 

[marcar72]

Orthodoxy is by faith and acts - the middle road in many ways.

Orthodoxy is eastern guru worship westernized.

 

[Mary Lyn]

This is more like Buddhism than Christianity, when Met. Jonah is talking about controlling the mind. It is not scriptural, where it says that sin comes from man's heart not the mind. The mind is a tool to use according to the state of the heart:

'For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies': Matthew 15:19.

The answer to mans' problems is the pure heart: 'Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.'

I could quote a lot more verses like these but I don't want to lose you, in that you will say I am just a Protestant and that's the end. Yes I was but think them apostate.

The scriptures say that the order is heart ---> mind. And man cannot change his heart.

If you tell me that the scriptures do not matter to the Orthodox then I am out of here! I do think that a lot of Orthodox are misunderstanding the ECF's on the issue of holiness. They did not agree, some thought the way of today, some did not and I know I must get down to doing a major study on it.

But anyway, I could not listen to Met. Jonah and only heard him for a short while when he mentioned the triplex via but further study has shown that he was not understanding it as some of the ECF I mentioned did. I could not listen to him for long.

Bless him and all the lovely Orthodox priests I am coming across with their incredible dedication to their people, but lets be honest, he is obviously living very unhealthy lifestyle, is obese and slow of mind and has a problem with phlem. He would be better dictating books or provide a channel where his speaking could be speeded up three times. He is definitely not practising what he is preaching regarding self control. But anyway, I am despairing of finding those who differ from the main, faith plus works which is what Protestants and RC's say.

It was done in the past, we were united, and if we repent and do the works of righteousness to show God we mean business, then He will come and purify our hearts. After that, it is living by our new nature and is as easy as that.

 

[Recoen]

@Recoen

Thank you for the videos you posted by Vladyka Jonah. I had been searching for a long time for someone teaching the triplex via without success after reading about it from early catholic sources:

'The Doctrine of the Triplex Via is central to the Christian mystical tradition. Encountering its origins in the De Divinis Nominibus of Dionysius the Areopagite and reaching its apotheosis in the tradition of St. John of the Cross, the Triplex Via in St. Thomas Aquinas is a privileged instance of his transcendence of Aristotelian essentialism. St. The teaching combines epistemological and metaphysical considerations because it insists that whatever intelligibility man affirms of God is in strict proportion to the radical inscrutability of His Being. The thesis advanced in this note argues that the Triplex Via is an indispensable methodological principle for the future progress of metaphysics. St. Thomas Aquinas worked the Triplex Via into two specifically epistemological dimensions of his own teaching. The act of conceptualizing issuing into simple understanding, intentionally reiterates natures or essences. The second epistemological consideration is Aquinas' insistence that only judgment grasps existent reality.'

'Being and Knowing', Reflections of a Thomist ByFrederick D. Wilhelmsen

I do believe that because of Vladyka Jonah that it is found in the church fathers but I have yet to research it and there is little to find in conducting a search.. It is the three steps to union with God: conviction, illumination and union, obtainable in this life. However, I am not finding many present teachings in Orthodoxy that perfection is to found in this life. All I am reading is the teachers are desiring it. The problem is, that if they have not attained it themselves, they cannot guide others,: the blind cannot lead the blind.

It seems to me that present day teaching is legalistic, that is to say, that practicing spiritual exercises like fasting and prayer will lead one to perfection, but this is not what the triplex via is saying. Then it would be one step - a gradual one. But this is what is taught in the rest of Christendom, one gradually becomes more and more like Christ.

It is not what |I see in experience, and not how I interpret the scripture. For example, in Galatians 3: 1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

So Paul is saying that it is by faith. That faith is in believing in what Christ achieved for us on the cross 2,000 years ago, that we are crucified with Him (if we have consented and therefore submitted to absolute rule by Him). If so then He lives in us and we are united with Him and perfected.

It is desperately needed today to overcome Satan. To be impervious to him and his lies we must have submitted to Christ before he will flee from us. If the Orthodox church is to be the future for mankind then we must have those who are perfected so that they can lead others into this blessed state.

This explains the Orthodox belief further:


His two videos on the Protestant reformation are also great:




Here are some more:




https://youtu.be/-lKgJY1B56Q

https://youtu.be/d_boyR_zbdE

 

[Recoen]

This is more like Buddhism than Christianity, when Met. Jonah is talking about controlling the mind. It is not scriptural, where it says that sin comes from man's heart not the mind. The mind is a tool to use according to the state of the heart:

'For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies': Matthew 15:19.

The answer to mans' problems is the pure heart: 'Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.'

I could quote a lot more verses like these but I don't want to lose you, in that you will say I am just a Protestant and that's the end. Yes I was but think them apostate.

The scriptures say that the order is heart ---> mind. And man cannot change his heart.

If you tell me that the scriptures do not matter to the Orthodox then I am out of here! I do think that a lot of Orthodox are misunderstanding the ECF's on the issue of holiness. They did not agree, some thought the way of today, some did not and I know I must get down to doing a major study on it.

But anyway, I could not listen to Met. Jonah and only heard him for a short while when he mentioned the triplex via but further study has shown that he was not understanding it as some of the ECF I mentioned did. I could not listen to him for long.

Bless him and all the lovely Orthodox priests I am coming across with their incredible dedication to their people, but lets be honest, he is obviously living very unhealthy lifestyle, is obese and slow of mind and has a problem with phlem. He would be better dictating books or provide a channel where his speaking could be speeded up three times. He is definitely not practising what he is preaching regarding self control. But anyway, I am despairing of finding those who differ from the main, faith plus works which is what Protestants and RC's say.

It was done in the past, we were united, and if we repent and do the works of righteousness to show God we mean business, then He will come and purify our hearts. After that, it is living by our new nature and is as easy as that.

What Met. Jonah is talking about has to do with the Nous. The Nous isn’t common in Roman Catholicism or Protestantism. Orthodoxy talks about the soul, nous, and body.

Just because his body appears to be unhealthy does not preclude him from having self control, etc that is a fallacy. Also, he would be the first to say he’s struggling like the rest of us and sins. And many on this board for example are “doing everything right” but don’t appear healthy. Lastly, I think it goes back to “take up your cross”. Many monks, etc during the katharsis, theoria, and even theosis stages purposefully get little sleep due to prayer; restrict what foods they eat; etc this obviously is hard on the body. But they do this to grow closer to God. My own health issues continually bring me back so I can understand their reasons for doing so.

 

[Mary Lyn]

@Recoen
Thank you for posting those videos which I have spent the morning watching. They have been useful. Fr. Josiah was very good indeed, very educated, and it was a joy to hear that he spent some time at Durham university which is in my home town! It is so small that I may have passed him in the street! It was particularly interesting to hear him as I am an ex Calvinist and know exactly where he was coming from with doctrine. I have Protestantism to thank for my love of scripture and theology.

The three religions however, are all basically saying the same regarding salvation:

Catholic - it is by grace from God that they were born into the church and baptised as infants, which they class as now being in the kingdom of God whereby they work sanctification by attending mass and have faith that whatever they lack is provided by the merits of Christ and hope they will be saved at the end though cannot be sin free.

Protestants - it is by grace (or prevenient grace) that they come to Christ to be His followers, without works, and thereafter attain sanctification by trying to do good and for the Reformed, perfection sanctification through getting ones doctrine right. Very few believe that once they are saved they can do what they want but will lose rewards. They cannot be sin free in this life.

Many Orthodox believe that presenting for baptism by water, in the OC they are given the gift of entry into the kingdom and by works (taking communion and prayer) and faith that God helps them to be saved in the end. They cannot believe they can be sin free in this life.

But that is not what some of the ECF taught. This was made clear by the last speaker Fr. Panayiotis who was nearer to my understanding and quote the fathers: St Gregory of Nyssa, St Iranaeus and St Athenasius that we are baptised in the Holy Spirit (poured over as St I said) preferably at the same time as with water, and made free from sin. I repeat, free from sin. This is my reading of certain ECF's. Not hoping to obtain it one day but actually and literally free from sin which is the only way that man can have the healing that restores him to the state that God intends. In this state, one sees miracles as a matter of course.

 

[Mary Lyn]

What Met. Jonah is talking about has to do with the Nous. The Nous isn’t common in Roman Catholicism or Protestantism. Orthodoxy talks about the soul, nous, and body.

Just because his body appears to be unhealthy does not preclude him from having self control, etc that is a fallacy. Also, he would be the first to say he’s struggling like the rest of us and sins. And many on this board for example are “doing everything right” but don’t appear healthy. Lastly, I think it goes back to “take up your cross”. Many monks, etc during the katharsis, theoria, and even theosis stages purposefully get little sleep due to prayer; restrict what foods they eat; etc this obviously is hard on the body. But they do this to grow closer to God. My own health issues continually bring me back so I can understand their reasons for doing so.

Yes I understand body soul and spirit as the scripture teaches it.

One can deduce the health state by looking at someone after spending a lot of time trying to improve ones own ill health. You can look ill but at the same time show that you are controlling your consumption of unhealthy food and obeying the natural laws. Macrobiotics can even tell you what your health problems are just by your appearance. And no he is not 'one of us' he is preaching self control as a teacher.

I do not agree with bad treatment of the body. For one thing, it takes a long time to make a saint and it is our duty to preserve our lives as long as possible though also with the grace of God if we are in bad situations like prison and unable to get health giving food. I think there has been a lot of nonsense about his in the church amongst aesthetics. If God requires us to have little sleep or fast for a long time He can preserve health but not if it is just an idea we have.