Ornithine And Aromatase Inhibition

[chispas]

Hi,

I was reading about the effectiveness of various 'aromatase inhibitors' - particularly those 'natural' compounds found in supplements derived from extracts of plants (ie. grape fruit extract, curcumin, blueberries, celery, fenugreek, ginger, goji, safflower, etc). In my reading, I have noticed that while some of these supposed aromatase inhibitors mostly do what they say on the box, they also cause steep rises in the production of nitric oxide, which Ray strongly warns against. You can read interesting commentary on studies into these compounds here: http://www.ergo-log.com/antiestrogenic.html

Although grape seed extract is implicated in raising the levels of nitric oxide, its effect on the body contradicts the very types of symptoms that excess nitric-oxide causes - ie. varicose veins, cell death, etc. More info evidencing this here: http://www.ergo-log.com/gse.html

In further reading about the relationship between aromatase inhibition and nitric oxide via pubmed, I found some studies that demonstrated the effectiveness of various nitric oxide-inhibitors. Some of these are: NAC and l-ornithine, among others. I am interested in experimenting with grape fruit extract for its aromatase inhibition factor, but was wondering if l-ornithine would prevent the expected rise in nitric-oxide.

This study says l-ornithine irreversibly prevents nitric oxide production, but I'm not sure what this really means: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15656623 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1710525

Anyway, until I know more I'm not taking grape seed extract. I know Ray says caffeine and niacinamide also antagonist nitric oxide production, but I'm not sure how effective or safe this is.

Maybe a question for haidut?

Cheers for the ever-enjoyable forum of chemistry and health discussion.

 

[yomama]

Ornithine and Grape Seed extract (which is the same molecule of Pycnogenol) are supposed to increase the eNOS, which stands for endothelial Nitric Oxide Synthase, required to raise the serum NO (Nitric Oxide), Ornithine with detox effects too and Grape Seed extract promoting micro-circulation.

What you cited is the N-iminoethyl-L-ornithine, which is not Ornithine but a different compound, able to inhibit the Nitric Oxide Synthase and raise blood pressure: http://www.scbt.com/es/datasheet-200343 ... l-nio.html

 

[chispas]

Right, thanks for the reply. So, if I understand correctly, they are both contributing to a rise in nitric oxide and not mitigating it?

It is very strange then that many of the claims of grape seed extract refer to it doing the opposite of what nitric oxide seems to do. For instance, my supp. bottle says that it will strengthen the cells of blood vessels, while nitric oxide is known to make them more unstable. Nitric oxide is also been seen as a contributor of varicose veins, while GSE is demonstrated to protect against this (supposedly).

GSE has been claimed to have a strong aromatase inhibition factor. What's worse - excess estrogen or increased nitric oxide?

Thanks for your response.

 

[Ami]

Has GSE shown to be an effective AI in vivo? I looked into it briefly and remember only being able to find in vitro studies.
You may want to look at white button mushrooms as a natural AI.

 

[yomama]

Basically GSE is a strong antioxidant with a large spectrum of therapeutic effects, for example to improve the fatty liver condition:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003214/
An introductory article can be found here:
http://examine.com/supplements/grape-seed-extract/
Related anti-aromatase properties are also documented in vivo:
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/63/23/8516
Looks to me this forum is plenty of threads about anti-aromatase and anti-estrogen substances, drugs, suggestions, etc., just have a search. Now if you want my personal opinion I can tell you that what better works for me is Curcuma (as whole Turmeric) and Indole-3-Carbinol but you know it also depends on each one metabolism, health condition, drugs and supps your taking, etc.

 

[ddjd]

Right, thanks for the reply. So, if I understand correctly, they are both contributing to a rise in nitric oxide and not mitigating it?

It is very strange then that many of the claims of grape seed extract refer to it doing the opposite of what nitric oxide seems to do. For instance, my supp. bottle says that it will strengthen the cells of blood vessels, while nitric oxide is known to make them more unstable. Nitric oxide is also been seen as a contributor of varicose veins, while GSE is demonstrated to protect against this (supposedly).

GSE has been claimed to have a strong aromatase inhibition factor. What's worse - excess estrogen or increased nitric oxide?

Thanks for your response.

As estrogen decreases does nitric oxide increase then?

 

[ddjd]

Hi,

I was reading about the effectiveness of various 'aromatase inhibitors' - particularly those 'natural' compounds found in supplements derived from extracts of plants (ie. grape fruit extract, curcumin, blueberries, celery, fenugreek, ginger, goji, safflower, etc). In my reading, I have noticed that while some of these supposed aromatase inhibitors mostly do what they say on the box, they also cause steep rises in the production of nitric oxide, which Ray strongly warns against. You can read interesting commentary on studies into these compounds here: Anti-Oestrogenic Compounds

Although grape seed extract is implicated in raising the levels of nitric oxide, its effect on the body contradicts the very types of symptoms that excess nitric-oxide causes - ie. varicose veins, cell death, etc. More info evidencing this here: Grape Seed Extract

In further reading about the relationship between aromatase inhibition and nitric oxide via pubmed, I found some studies that demonstrated the effectiveness of various nitric oxide-inhibitors. Some of these are: NAC and l-ornithine, among others. I am interested in experimenting with grape fruit extract for its aromatase inhibition factor, but was wondering if l-ornithine would prevent the expected rise in nitric-oxide.

This study says l-ornithine irreversibly prevents nitric oxide production, but I'm not sure what this really means: Mechanism of inactivation of inducible nitric oxide synthase by amidines. Irreversible enzyme inactivation without inactivator modification. - PubMed - NCBI and Identification of N-iminoethyl-L-ornithine as an irreversible inhibitor of nitric oxide synthase in phagocytic cells. - PubMed - NCBI

Anyway, until I know more I'm not taking grape seed extract. I know Ray says caffeine and niacinamide also antagonist nitric oxide production, but I'm not sure how effective or safe this is.

Maybe a question for haidut?

Cheers for the ever-enjoyable forum of chemistry and health discussion.

what did you conclude in the end? does l-ornithine or grapefruit exert an AI effect?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I'm interested in this as well. Pycnongenol is quite expensive too, compared to grape seed extract which looks about the same physiologically.

 

[Broken man]

This is very interesting... @chispas did you try ornithine? Thank you.