Oral Thrush Getting Worse On This Diet

crusader

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Look, I really want this diet to work, but its really not.


Every time I drink orange juice, my oral thrush gets immediately worse, the white coating gets significantly worse. The orange juice is the only variable in causing this issue.



Should I just go on a low sugar diet for awhile ? Because I really do not want to keep up with this and let this continue, the oral thrush causes very bad breath and it is embarrassing.


As soon as I go on a lower sugar diet (still eat roots such as carrots and beets), the oral thrush goes away, as soon as I start drinking orange juice, it comes back.
 
J

j.

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Can you tolerate milk? Having more milk to not feel hungry when you're not drinking OJ is a possibility.
 

crusader

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Worlpt said:
Sugar on candida is like gasoline on a fire.



Isn't the whole premise of the peat diet is to eat a good amount of sugar? And I know for a fact that ray peat has said to eat sugar when you have candida issues so the candida doesn't dig In the tissues and look for other sources of food?
 

charlie

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How long have you been Peating?

Whats your diet like? Are you on any thyroid?
 

crusader

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Charlie said:
How long have you been Peating?

Whats your diet like? Are you on any thyroid?




I appreciate your desire to ask the cliche, over asked type questions, but the extra variables you mentioned are superfluous, given my previous mentioning that the orange juice is the only determining causality of my oral thrush.


Also, asking me if I'm on thyroid is also unnecessary, more often that not people have contracted and eliminated oral thrush with "thyroid" never being a determining variable.
 

HDD

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Have you done a search on this forum? Candida has been discussed more than once. I remember oral thrush being discussed before. I'll see if I can find the one I am thinking of.
 

HDD

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Ray Peat -
Local bacteria are usually involved in the white tongue, but typically the problem is mainly in the intestine. I have experimented with the old-fashioned "intestinal disinfectant" camphoric acid (it used to be a common pharmaceutical, 80 to 100 years ago), and when I would swallow about 100 to 200 mg of it in the evening, I would wake up with a perfectly clean tongue, not a bit of the white. Bamboo shoots, raw carrot, and flowers of sulfur are other antiseptics that can reduce the white tongue.

Ray Peat wrote:
They aren't necessary [FIBER], for example milk supports abundant bacterial growth that creates bulk, but when there are digestive and hormonal problems because of bad intestinal flora, the fibers of carrot and bamboo shoots have a disinfecting action. The carrots must be raw for that effect.
 

4peatssake

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crusader said:
Charlie said:
How long have you been Peating?

Whats your diet like? Are you on any thyroid?
I appreciate your desire to ask the cliche, over asked type questions, but the extra variables you mentioned are superfluous, given my previous mentioning that the orange juice is the only determining causality of my oral thrush.

Also, asking me if I'm on thyroid is also unnecessary, more often that not people have contracted and eliminated oral thrush with "thyroid" never being a determining variable.
There is no need to be rude, especially when someone is generous with their time and tries to help you.

Orange juice doesn't cause thrush and Charlie's questions are perfectly valid for this forum where we discuss Ray Peat.

Ray Peat said:
Poor digestion does affect the membranes of the mouth, but a fungal infection of the mouth usually happens when the immune system is weak, from hormonal imbalance or poor nutrition, for example, or when there isn't enough saliva, or when the membranes are affected by a specific vitamin deficiency, such as vitamin A. Yeasts are attracted to estrogen and glucose, and when the thyroid hormone is deficient the antibodies that normally protect membranes tend to be deficient. It's important to know for sure exactly what the problem is, since leukoplakia is sometimes mistaken for thrush. A rinse with a little powdered sulfur usually eliminates yeast, vitamin A, along with other adequate nutrition, can often correct leukoplakia.

Source
 

Worlpt

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crusader said:
Worlpt said:
Sugar on candida is like gasoline on a fire.



Isn't the whole premise of the peat diet is to eat a good amount of sugar? And I know for a fact that ray peat has said to eat sugar when you have candida issues so the candida doesn't dig In the tissues and look for other sources of food?
Your own experience demonstrates that's wrong, in you and I'd guess also in at least >90% of the population.

I'm not a follower of Peat, or of anybody for that matter, btw. I think he has some good ideas.

You foam yeast for bread by adding sugar. You make alcohol best with sugar, though starch will suffice. Yeast loves sugar, and oral thrush probably means that you have a bad overgrowth in the GI tract. Do you get lots of intestinal gas after consuming sugar?

When yeast in the gut gets sugar to feed on, it thrives and multiplies and transforms into the invasive fungal rhizome form, also called hypha. Yeast is spherical or almost egg shaped, like buds. The fungal hyphae develop fine structures like rootlets that can invade through the intestinal barrier, just like plant roots can eventually get through a sidewalk. There are microscope photos out there somewhere.

Were you on antibiotic or did something depress your immunity before you got the thrush?

[edit: I'm assuming you're male and so I didn't mention birth control pills (estrogen) ]
 

HDD

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I used to be in that 90%. Sugar is bad. Milk is bad. Salmon is good. Nuts are good. Raw veggies are good. Probiotics, yogurt, cultured veggies, kombucha, kefir for gut health.

How wrong the 90% can be. :(



"....... It takes time and strength to change things and Ray Peat is one single voice that is not singing along - sometimes nearly drowned out by the choir that sticks to its old lyrics. It takes time to hear him, to understand him and to integrate his thoughts into your life. But every little thing you change for the better will make a big difference; you don't need to do it all at ones. Sometimes it's these little things we tend to forget that turn everything around. For me it was salt, too - and sugar.  ----Peatarian
 

juanitacarlos

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crusader said:
Look, I really want this diet to work, but its really not.

Every time I drink orange juice, my oral thrush gets immediately worse, the white coating gets significantly worse. The orange juice is the only variable in causing this issue.

Should I just go on a low sugar diet for awhile ? Because I really do not want to keep up with this and let this continue, the oral thrush causes very bad breath and it is embarrassing.

As soon as I go on a lower sugar diet (still eat roots such as carrots and beets), the oral thrush goes away, as soon as I start drinking orange juice, it comes back.

hi crusader. If something is not working for you, then drop it. I think OJ is great and works for me, but if have negative reactions to it, then drop it for a while. You have clearly stated quite bluntly to Charlie that OJ is the cause of your oral thrush, there is no other variable, so your next step seems quite obvious - don't drink it. Maybe you could try it again in 3-4 months and see how you go?

As for going on a low sugar diet, again, that's your choice. You are allowed to do whatever you like! But I don't think you are going to get too many people agreeing with that tactic on this particular forum. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it or you won't feel better if you do that, it's just that most people here have a different philosophy on how to deal with health on this forum. But why don't you go on a low-sugar diet and see how it works for you? Are you concerned about going on a low-sugar diet? Have you tried it before?
 

Gabriel

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Maybe try eating whole fruits instead of juices? Tissue-bound sugar should cause less troubles in the mouth as it is mostly released in the gut.
 

Dan Wich

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crusader said:
As soon as I go on a lower sugar diet (still eat roots such as carrots and beets), the oral thrush goes away, as soon as I start drinking orange juice, it comes back.

Interesting, have you tried any other juices or sugars to make sure it's not something unique to the OJ? I'm convinced the "oral ecosystem" is way more complex than we give it credit for, so maybe it's something about OJ's acidity, citrus, etc.

I'm not sure this would change your course of action, but are you sure it's thrush, rather than just bacterial plaque?
 

Swandattur

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For about three years, I've had this whitish/yellowish discoloration on the back of the roof of my mouth and around the throat. Nothing I've tried has gotten rid of it. A doctor I went to indicated it was from allergies, since she said it was mucous discoloration. My dentist and hygienist said it wasn't anything, but I know it didn't used to be there. The inside of the mouth does seem like a complicated place. The plaque that builds on the teeth seems like a coral reef for bacteria, for instance.
 

Gabriel

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I also have a white/yellowish tongue but it doesn't cause any symptoms or problems, so I came to the conclusion that a colored tongue is just a normal thing.

"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
 

Swandattur

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Same notion as my dentist. I just thought it might be a sign of something like allergy. On the tongue it might be the leukoplakia that Peat mentions.
 

natedawggh

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We're you diagnosed with oral thrush? A white coating is not oral thrush. Oral thrush is an infection of the mouth tissues by Candida albicans. A painless white or yellowish coating on the tongue is a normal condition that is definitely not oral thrush. If you do have an infection or pain in your mouth you should see a doctor right away for medical treatment.
 

Shesjay

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Mmm I have this problem as well. Big problem. About a month ago my tongue started getting bad, I took flowers of sulfur (1tsp over 3 days) in hopes that it would clear up. It did. A week later, though, it came back - worse. Very sore roof of mouth/throat. I took nilstat oral drops for a couple of weeks and it went again. Now it is back, even worse. Very sore mouth, constant metallic taste (all food tastes gross and burns), thick tongue with ulcers, stomach discomfort and feel like throwing up. Ugh. I think I'm getting a UTI, too (candida?). Pretty much my whole body has crashed. I don't want to go back on the nystatin as I read it is toxic, but apparently okay because it doesn't cross the gut/mouth membranes. I don't trust that - what if I have leaky gut. Seems like all antifungal meds have some kind of bad side effect. I don't know what to do. I don't feel like eating anything right now. I'm having plenty of carrots, as well as coconut oil. No starch for a long time until today (I felt like a masa muffin - bad idea- BURNED). Has anyone had success in ridding of oral thrush/candida? Or have any recommendations? I'm taking thyroid...
 
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