Oral Testosterone Increases Total Testosterone

[TheBeard]

I should have written "thought" not "knew". Yes oral and transdermal are far superior to injecting. Most people sadly still live under the old lies pharma companies propagated that it won't work.

Yes, and when you dare say on a steroid forum or on reddit that you use transdermals instead of injectables, you are either a p.u.s.s.y, scared of needles, or a complete ignorant.

Let alone my 2500ng/dl testosterone levels achieved with the transdermal route "not comparing" to their 2500ng/dl achieved through injection.
It "doesn't build as much muscle", although it's the same level.

They are probably right, the inflammation caused by injecting PUFA probably makes them look bulkier.

 

[TheBeard]

Presumably you would do 1-5mg of Tbase in DMSO, but if you were doing it in vitamin E you would need a fair bit more to get that 5mg dose? Ray advocates 10x the dose if you're applying on the skin, but Georgi says if you leave it long enough you can probably get like 80% absorption on the skin with vitamin E? Ray's logic would mean a ~50mg topical dose to get the ~5mg dose. Georgi's logic would only require say ~7mg? What are your thoughts Hans (and others). Thanks :)

DMSO = 99% absorption in 2 min, done.

 

[Hans]

Presumably you would do 1-5mg of Tbase in DMSO, but if you were doing it in vitamin E you would need a fair bit more to get that 5mg dose? Ray advocates 10x the dose if you're applying on the skin, but Georgi says if you leave it long enough you can probably get like 80% absorption on the skin with vitamin E? Ray's logic would mean a ~50mg topical dose to get the ~5mg dose. Georgi's logic would only require say ~7mg? What are your thoughts Hans (and others). Thanks :)

I'd go with Haiduts suggestion if you're able to leave it on for that long, for example on your lips as Peat do/did.
But it's worth experimenting and see how those different doses affect your own levels.

 

[golder]

DMSO = 99% absorption in 2 min, done.

This would be ideal, I just really don't 100% trust the Chinese vendors. As you've rightfully and instructively said in your previous advice, don't use anything DMSO that you would wouldn't inject. The vitamin E transdermal seems slightly safer (although frustratingly less efficient). If I categorically knew I could get a 100% T base, I'd be mixing it in DMSO tonight and write off all of these concerns.

 

[golder]

I should have written "thought" not "knew". Yes oral and transdermal are far superior to injecting. Most people sadly still live under the old lies pharma companies propagated that it won't work.

If you had to choose one, oral/transdermal/transcortal which would you choose and why? Cheers for your input :)

 

[johnwester130]

DMSO = 99% absorption in 2 min, done.

You don't want dmso, you don't actually want 100% absorption.

dmso also takes it too far into the body, so it's more complicated than just the absorption percentage

 

[TheBeard]

You don't want dmso, you don't actually want 100% absorption.

dmso also takes it too far into the body, so it's more complicated than just the absorption percentage

You don't want 100% absorption?

 

[Jsaute21]

Thanks. If my T is very low, I'd go the 120mg route, but if it was moderately low, I'd go with the 80mg route.
But if I had a choice, I'd go for topical instead, like 1-5mg in DMSO or vitamin E like Peat did/does.

Don’t you think testosterone can be favorably manipulated through environment nutrition and thyroid if necessary?

find it hard to believe t is ever necessary unless very old or in an extremely beaten down environment.

 

[5a-DHP]

find it hard to believe t is ever necessary unless very old or in an extremely beaten down environment.

Define 'necessary'.
I can get my endogenous testosterone a little above range if I take thyroid, certain b-vits, DHEA and live a near perfect life stress wise - it's an absolute drain to adhere to, and I don't actually 'feel' a difference. In addition, the second a large, unavoidable stressor comes along (which it always will if you want to live a fulfilling life) cortisol goes up and there's nothing you can do to avoid the drop in androgens.
Conversely, I can achieve the same thing via exogenous testosterone without worrying too much about the above. Improves health markedly, makes me extrodindarly stress-proof, somewhat circumvents the effect of EDC's, etc, etc.
High endogenous testosterone cannot be compared to high serum levels from exogenous use - they're very different, for good and for bad.

 

[johnwester130]

You don't want 100% absorption?

DMSO pushes the absorption too high, which isn't a good thing.

Enhanced Bioavailability And Tissue Effects Of Steroids Dissolved In Dmso

As discussed in another thread related to DHEA, subcutaneous administration of steroids is considered the golden standard for bioavailability and systemic effects. That same study showed that topical application of DHEA dissolved in popylene glycol is only 33% as bioavailable as through...

raypeatforum.com

For example, someone put dmso on their finger and then put their finger into jam. they could taste the strawberry in their mouth and smelled of strawberries.

 

[Murtaza]

For example, someone put dmso on their finger and then put their finger into jam. they could taste the strawberry in their mouth and smelled of strawberries.

thats a funny anecdote

 

[TheBeard]

DMSO pushes the absorption too high, which isn't a good thing.

Enhanced Bioavailability And Tissue Effects Of Steroids Dissolved In Dmso

As discussed in another thread related to DHEA, subcutaneous administration of steroids is considered the golden standard for bioavailability and systemic effects. That same study showed that topical application of DHEA dissolved in popylene glycol is only 33% as bioavailable as through...

raypeatforum.com

For example, someone put dmso on their finger and then put their finger into jam. they could taste the strawberry in their mouth and smelled of strawberries.

Well that means you can use less raw powder to make your solution.

 

[Andman]

Define 'necessary'.
I can get my endogenous testosterone a little above range if I take thyroid, certain b-vits, DHEA and live a near perfect life stress wise - it's an absolute drain to adhere to, and I don't actually 'feel' a difference. In addition, the second a large, unavoidable stressor comes along (which it always will if you want to live a fulfilling life) cortisol goes up and there's nothing you can do to avoid the drop in androgens.
Conversely, I can achieve the same thing via exogenous testosterone without worrying too much about the above. Improves health markedly, makes me extrodindarly stress-proof, somewhat circumvents the effect of EDC's, etc, etc.
High endogenous testosterone cannot be compared to high serum levels from exogenous use - they're very different, for good and for bad.

agree 100%
theres just no comparison really

 

[rei]

If you had to choose one, oral/transdermal/transcortal which would you choose and why? Cheers for your input :)

transdermal as i had so excellent experience with progesterone using that route

 

[Hans]

Don’t you think testosterone can be favorably manipulated through environment nutrition and thyroid if necessary?

find it hard to believe t is ever necessary unless very old or in an extremely beaten down environment.

Yes ofc. I personally won't use it, but rather use compounds and use certain tactics that make me stress resilient.

 

[golder]

Don’t you think testosterone can be favorably manipulated through environment nutrition and thyroid if necessary?

find it hard to believe t is ever necessary unless very old or in an extremely beaten down environment.

We live in an extremely beaten down environment.

 

[trend]

Oral Test (undecanoate) remains a favorite amongst endurance cyclists

 

[Jsaute21]

Not shaming anyone for using T BTW. Good for anyone that chooses to do so. I just was simply asking the question based on studies and experience.

I'm in an 11 hour a day grind myself right now so certainly understand the stress component.

 

[TheBeard]

Define 'necessary'.
I can get my endogenous testosterone a little above range if I take thyroid, certain b-vits, DHEA and live a near perfect life stress wise - it's an absolute drain to adhere to, and I don't actually 'feel' a difference. In addition, the second a large, unavoidable stressor comes along (which it always will if you want to live a fulfilling life) cortisol goes up and there's nothing you can do to avoid the drop in androgens.
Conversely, I can achieve the same thing via exogenous testosterone without worrying too much about the above. Improves health markedly, makes me extrodindarly stress-proof, somewhat circumvents the effect of EDC's, etc, etc.
High endogenous testosterone cannot be compared to high serum levels from exogenous use - they're very different, for good and for bad.

Indeed, I've achieved free T levels 50% above top range naturally, didn't feel the same at all as when I was reaching those levels with cream.
That being said, my DHT is through the roof with cream, and around average naturally.

 

[johnwester130]

Well that means you can use less raw powder to make your solution.

I don't think it's that simple

DMSO changes how the body uses it