Oral Testosterone Increases Total Testosterone

[Nigel Forester]

it puzzles me how people use 80mg or even 25mg of T per day. Seems nuts.

I used to go to a gym where guys would inject 100mg+ a day!

 

[schultz]

The liver excretes testosterone in a sulfate or glucuronidated form though.

Yah, but I assume it would show up as "total T". Ray implied this in one of his articles, but he was talking about progesterone from what I remember.

it puzzles me how people use 80mg or even 25mg of T per day. Seems nuts.

You have to take that much in order to get the physiological amount because the liver excretes most of the 80mg. Oral progesterone does the same thing, unless it is in vitamin E, in which case it doesn't go to the liver, but is instead taken up by chlyomicrons (I'm sure you know this, just clarifying for anyone reading).

 

[Fidelio]

You people shouldn’t really talk on things you have no idea about.
Free T is increasing because the oral T is crashing SHBG. With no SHBG to bind endogenous T, more is ‘free’. This isn’t optimal, as SHBG is a carrier of T. Low SHBG = less T going to tissue where it’s needed. More free T = more aromatisation = more estrogen.

 

[Quelsatron]

The testosterone industry (especially bodybuilding) is so big and old that it feels like oral T should be the standard if it was the best way. Is there something different with this method?

 

[Fidelio]

The testosterone industry (especially bodybuilding) is so big and old that it feels like oral T should be the standard if it was the best way. Is there something different with this method?

Oral steroids crash SHBG as I mentioned above.
If oral steroids were a viable option do you really think hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders would willingly inject themselves multiple times per week?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Oral steroids crash SHBG as I mentioned above.
If oral steroids were a viable option do you really think hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders would willingly inject themselves multiple times per week?

yes I do think they would.

 

[NoLifeUnSung]

I wonder if taking 10 mg orally with fat would mimic a microdose without the risk of shutdown. Also, a dosage like this could mimic what we would get from an ancestral diet. If anyone knows how many mg's of testosterone are in bull testicles lmk.

 

[brix]

Anyone tried oral test yet? I mixed some test base with MCT oil to make a 2mg/drop solution. A couple drops a day always makes my feet freeze up. Have tried stacking with 6-keto Prog, Pansterone, and just taken it by itself and it always ends up with a stress reaction.

 

[Nebula]

Anyone tried oral test yet? I mixed some test base with MCT oil to make a 2mg/drop solution. A couple drops a day always makes my feet freeze up. Have tried stacking with 6-keto Prog, Pansterone, and just taken it by itself and it always ends up with a stress reaction.

Have you ever tried belly button topical application or included a small amount of DHT base as well? I’m curious to see how absorption there changes anything as haidut has mentioned it’s very effective at raising vitamin D applied to the navel.

 

[brix]

Have you ever tried belly button topical application or included a small amount of DHT base as well? I’m curious to see how absorption there changes anything as haidut has mentioned it’s very effective at raising vitamin D applied to the navel.

I actually tried that yesterday and had the same reaction. I don’t have dht on hand. I skipped dosing any test today and my feet and hands feel fine

 

[SonOfEurope]

Thank you Hans

 

[NoLifeUnSung]

Anyone tried oral test yet? I mixed some test base with MCT oil to make a 2mg/drop solution. A couple drops a day always makes my feet freeze up. Have tried stacking with 6-keto Prog, Pansterone, and just taken it by itself and it always ends up with a stress reaction.

Have been doing 10mg of oral test for almost 3 months. It's working great for me. I also take progesterone with it and has helped with muscle building and mental focus. The stress reaction may be from lack of calories. I always take mine with raw milk.

 

[brix]

Have been doing 10mg of oral test for almost 3 months. It's working great for me. I also take progesterone with it and has helped with muscle building and mental focus. The stress reaction may be from lack of calories. I always take mine with raw milk.

Interesting. I'll try pairing it with a large meal and see how that goes. How much prog are you taking with it?

 

[NoLifeUnSung]

Interesting. I'll try pairing it with a large meal and see how that goes. How much prog are you taking with it?

1:1 so 10mg of test 10mg progesterone. I also throw in pregnenolone(around 10mg) and thyroid(1/4 grain) a couple of days of the week.

 

[johnwester130]

@haidut

peat discovered mixing progesterone in vitamin E prevented it from being excreted by the liver.

Do you think something similar happens with testosterone base dissolved in vitamin E too?

 

[LuMonty]

1. A method for treating arthritis and joint pain and disability, comprising administering to a patient in need of such treatment a pharmacologically effective dose of dehydroepiandrosterone.

2. A method for treating arthritis, comprising administering to a patient in need of such treatment a pharmacologically effective dose of at least one compound selected from the group of the anesthetic class of naturally occurring steroids of the formula: ##STR2## wherein R.sub.1 is O or OH and R.sub.2 is O, OH, or COCH.sub.3 ; and which may contain one double bond in ring A and/or ring B.

3. The method of claim 2 in which said steroid is selected from the group consisting of: dehydroepiandrosterone, iso-androsterone, etiocholanolone, pregnenolone, and progesterone.

4. The method of claim 2 wherein the compound is administered orally.

5. The method of claim 2 wherein the compound is administered topically.

6. The method of claim 2, wherein the arthritis to be treated is osteo-arthritis.

7. The method of claim 2, wherein the arthritis to be treated is rheumatoid arthritis.

8. The method of claim 2, wherein the arthritis to be treated is arthritis associated with auto-immune disease.

9. The method of claim 2, wherein the condition to be treated comprises non-specific joint pain or joint disability resulting from stress.

10. A pharmaceutical composition useful for the treatment of arthritis comprising an effective amount of at least one compound selected from the group consisting of the formula: ##STR3## wherein R.sub.1 is O or OH and R.sub.2 is O, or OH; and which may contain one double bond in ring A and/or ring B and tocopherol, in a suitable pharmaceutical carrier.

11. The composition of claim 10 in which said steroid is selected from the group consisting of dehydroepiandrosterone, iso-androsterone, and etiochlolanolone, in a suitable pharmaceutical carrier.

12. The composition of claim 11 comprising an effective amount of dehydroepiandrosterone and tocopherol.

13. The composition of claim 11 also comprising progesterone.

14. The composition of claim 11 also comprising testosterone.

15. The composition of claim 11 also comprising olive oil.

http://www.google.com/patents/US4628052 ... &q&f=false

@johnwester130 The patent in the quote post is from Ray so I think it's safe to assume that the answer is yes. Was surprised when I found the quoted post since the claim has always been that oral T is useless.

 

[rei]

You people shouldn’t really talk on things you have no idea about.
Free T is increasing because the oral T is crashing SHBG. With no SHBG to bind endogenous T, more is ‘free’. This isn’t optimal, as SHBG is a carrier of T. Low SHBG = less T going to tissue where it’s needed. More free T = more aromatisation = more estrogen.

Oral steroids crash SHBG as I mentioned above.
If oral steroids were a viable option do you really think hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders would willingly inject themselves multiple times per week?

You shouldn’t really talk on things you have no idea about. Bodybuilders don't use oral or transdermal T because it is a recent finding (or at least information being propagated) that T works using those routes. I'm pretty sure a decade ago everyone, including me, knew oral T is not possible, you need synthetic modified versions so it "survives first pass metabolism"

 

[johnwester130]

You shouldn’t really talk on things you have no idea about. Bodybuilders don't use oral or transdermal T because it is a recent finding (or at least information being propagated) that T works using those routes. I'm pretty sure a decade ago everyone, including me, knew oral T is not possible, you need synthetic modified versions so it "survives first pass metabolism"

so why is ray peat taking oral testosterone base?

the bodybuilders are trying to get massive amounts in their system and achieve a physique.

someone looking for simple health benefits can take oral testosterone dissolved in MCT oil/Vitamin e

 

[rei]

I should have written "thought" not "knew". Yes oral and transdermal are far superior to injecting. Most people sadly still live under the old lies pharma companies propagated that it won't work.

 

[golder]

Thanks. If my T is very low, I'd go the 120mg route, but if it was moderately low, I'd go with the 80mg route.
But if I had a choice, I'd go for topical instead, like 1-5mg in DMSO or vitamin E like Peat did/does.

Presumably you would do 1-5mg of Tbase in DMSO, but if you were doing it in vitamin E you would need a fair bit more to get that 5mg dose? Ray advocates 10x the dose if you're applying on the skin, but Georgi says if you leave it long enough you can probably get like 80% absorption on the skin with vitamin E? Ray's logic would mean a ~50mg topical dose to get the ~5mg dose. Georgi's logic would only require say ~7mg? What are your thoughts Hans (and others). Thanks :)