Oral Testosterone Coming To America

[Cameron]

It is Doctor Prescribed... Ok let the discussion and critique begin as I am sure this is promote the PROs and the CONs... I will be happy to answer any question about my labs. This was an April Lab and that was 6 months on Trans-crotal. My DHT is up in the high 300s RR 16-79 ng/dL. I use Pansterone daily to scrotum as I cannot tolerate any oral DHEA (I get some acne and oily skin), but the Pansterone really gives me a nice bump on sexdrive. I will run a 1 month HCG round every 3-4 months as it make me feel good as in better sense of well-being. I have no added bloat, no acne and no hairloss (although I am 55 and a tad thinner up-top). Overall I MUCH prefer this delivery overy any injection or other site cream application. I also take 1/2 grain armor.

Does your doctor see similar results in other men in his practice with this delivery method? I’m surprised topical scrotum testosterone isn’t talked about more because absorbability is much better. In thought I like the idea of this more than esters and injections but much fewer cases of scrotum applications exist especially with that impressive of results. I wonder how much hcg has to do with that total testosterone level

 

[skycop00]

Does your doctor see similar results in other men in his practice with this delivery method? I’m surprised topical scrotum testosterone isn’t talked about more because absorbability is much better. In thought I like the idea of this more than esters and injections but much fewer cases of scrotum applications exist especially with that impressive of results. I wonder how much hcg has to do with that total testosterone level

Yes my provider has been using transcrotal for about 10 years now with his clients. He also uses transvaginal T and DHEA with his female clients. Of course he is concierge as NO provider I know is going too far outside the lab high range. Most also insist on controlling E2 to lab specs for men. After being at the game for many years and trying all deliveries (to include home brew when not a sole would treat me), I have settled in a fine place. The 2 main questions seem to be;

1) Is HCG needed for Pregnenolone synthesis and any functions we may be missing shutting down (or lowering gonadal) synthesis
2) DHT: Is it an issue. The Docs tell me that there is a intra-prostatic control mechanism that monitors DHT inside the gland. I have not looked too deeply into how it actually works at this point.

I do use HCG about every 4 months and I use Pansterone on my testes 3-4x a week with excellent results. I feel well and I hope I have all my bases covered.

 

[Cameron]

Yes my provider has been using transcrotal for about 10 years now with his clients. He also uses transvaginal T and DHEA with his female clients. Of course he is concierge as NO provider I know is going too far outside the lab high range. Most also insist on controlling E2 to lab specs for men. After being at the game for many years and trying all deliveries (to include home brew when not a sole would treat me), I have settled in a fine place. The 2 main questions seem to be;

1) Is HCG needed for Pregnenolone synthesis and any functions we may be missing shutting down (or lowering gonadal) synthesis
2) DHT: Is it an issue. The Docs tell me that there is a intra-prostatic control mechanism that monitors DHT inside the gland. I have not looked too deeply into how it actually works at this point.

I do use HCG about every 4 months and I use Pansterone on my testes 3-4x a week with excellent results. I feel well and I hope I have all my bases covered.

I’m looking into titan medical to see there topical protocols. Every study shows better absorbability with steroids on scrotum. Most doctors just want you in range and to leave the office and get back to work.

 

[LukeL]

I took it for about 10 says and then started noticing the shutdown (scrotum/gonads size, erection changes, etc). After stopping, it took about a week to recover which is not surprising considering the relatively low dose (by bodybuilding standards) I used. I was also taking about 100mg pregnenolone and 5mg DHEA daily at the advice of Peat and that probably accelerated the recovery. I don't use T any more and since that experiment 5+ years ago have relied only on pregnenolone/DHEA and lately on progesterone/DHEA for hormonal support. I think progesterone/DHEA in the right ratio can fully replace T if the goal is simply help and preventing catabolism. If the goal is to get hulky then T or other AAS are probably needed but since that is not my goal I stick to progesterone/DHEA for now.

How do you take the 5mg of DHEA? Orally or topically? I take about 15mg topically to make sure I’m actually getting 5mg in my bloodstream - is this too much?

 

[ecstatichamster]

How do you take the 5mg of DHEA? Orally or topically? I take about 15mg topically to make sure I’m actually getting 5mg in my bloodstream - is this too much?

Probably. I take 5mg or so and it works great with progesterone and pregnenolone. My T is high and if I take 15mg I start getting chest acne.

 

[Mauritio]

A Combination to consider:

- 6-keto-progesterone + DHT
Much safer than trying raw T imo ,since 6keto doesn't aromatize and as it has been shown to really raise T (and lower Cortisol) , I dont think 6keto has much else of an effect ,thats why pairing it with DHT might be good to get some androgenicity to 6keto's anabolism, havent tried that combo yet, though.

 

[Peater]

@haidut what are the implications of this? If the liver increases clearance of oral testosterone in only 3 weeks

Six normal male volunteers ingested a dose of 400 mg free testosterone daily as tablets over 21 days. By the end of treatment intravenous antipyrine half-life had decreased significantly from 8.0 +/- 2.7 to 5.7 +/- 2.6 hr. The subjects eliminated testosterone from serum more rapidly on the twenty-first day of testosterone ingestion than on the first day. Serum albumin, bilirubin, prothrombin, alanine-amino-transferase, and alkaline phosphatases were unchanged during the experiment. It is concluded that oral testosterone treatment induces the hepatic drug-metabolizing system including that of testosterone.”

 

[TheBeard]

It is still an ester - the undecanoate one - despite evidence that pure, unesterified T is absorbed better than any ester, including the undecanoate one. I guess, still better than not having any option at all. It is beyound baffling why FDA would accept that steroids like pregnenolone, DHEA, progesterone, etc are highly bioavailable when administered orally yet somehow steroids like T, DHT, and various other synthetic derivatives are not. The only conclusion I can draw is that FDA purposefully tries to poison the field and steer the public away from oral route, which is easy and accessible for most people. In contrast, when it comes to injections most people depend on doctors to both prescribe and administer them.
Bioavailability of oral testosterone in males. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Twenty-six male volunteers received a single oral dose of testosterone as free crystals or as the undecanoate ester. The latter was given either in crystalline form or in arachis oil. All preparations were tested three times in the same individual, whilst fasting on 2 days and on one day together with a breakfast rich in fat. Serum testosterone concentration was measured at intervals for up to 6--24 h after the dose. A significant and reproducible rise in serum testosterone level was found after ingestion of free testosterone. Testosterone esterified with undecylenic acid was only effective when administered in arachis oil. The meal increased the bioavailability of the ester, but had hardly any effect on that of the free hormone. It is concluded that bioavailability of oral testosterone can be improved by pharmaceutical means to an extent sufficient to produce adequate blood levels in substitution therapy."

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(74)90216-5/fulltext
"...200 mg. of free testosterone (2-5 µ particles compressed into conventional tablets) produced normal male serum-testosterone levels for 5-7 hours in four subjects without testicular function. Serum-testosterone levels were still at least five times higher than initial values 6-8 hours after tablet ingestion. The clinical effectiveness of oral free testosterone 100 mg. 4 times a day was established in a double-blind trial in five eunuchs. It is concluded that artificial testosterone derivatives have no advantages, either in effect or cost, over oral androgen therapy. Adequate oral doses of natural free testosterone are fully effective in replacing hormonal testicular function."

I am going to try and ingest testosterone base mixed in pure DMSO to enhance absorption further

I will obviously dilute the DMSO with a bit of water as it burns through the mucous of the mouth and the esophagus in its pure form.

I wonder what the conversion rate to E2 and DHT will be orally compared to transcrotally

 

[Cameron]

Oral free/base (unesterified) testosterone is more effective and safer than synthetic AAS – To Extract Knowledge from Matter Great post Georgi glad this thread sparked some interesting discussion.

 

[Cameron]

I am going to try and ingest testosterone base mixed in pure DMSO to enhance absorption further

I will obviously dilute the DMSO with a bit of water as it burns through the mucous of the mouth and the esophagus in its pure form.

I wonder what the conversion rate to E2 and DHT will be orally compared to transcrotally

Transdermal or scrotum will activate more 5 ar via higher 5ar enzymes in skin tissue much like dhea will do.

 

[bdawg]

Oral free/base (unesterified) testosterone is more effective and safer than synthetic AAS – To Extract Knowledge from Matter Great post Georgi glad this thread sparked some interesting discussion.

@haidut this is great reading. Could you set up an email subscription feature? Would be very handy

 

[TheBeard]

Transdermal or scrotum will activate more 5 ar via higher 5ar enzymes in skin tissue much like dhea will do.

That’s what we would tend to think given the current experiences of people doing transcrotal vs other transdermal places or current oral solutions, but no one experimented yet with oral base testosterone. Only esterified forms are currently available

 

[brix]

That’s what we would tend to think given the current experiences of people doing transcrotal vs other transdermal places or current oral solutions, but no one experimented yet with oral base testosterone. Only esterified forms are currently available

I have tried oral test base in dmso and mct. As well as topical.

 

[TheBeard]

I have tried oral test base in dmso and mct. As well as topical.

Yes, and did you measure your consequent DHT in each case?

 

[Cameron]

That’s what we would tend to think given the current experiences of people doing transcrotal vs other transdermal places or current oral solutions, but no one experimented yet with oral base testosterone. Only esterified forms are currently available

Right and I do believe oral testosterone like any androgen will be absorbed orally and this is shown well in studies. The devil is in the details with dosing this is a bit of uncharted territory as millions of men inject testosterone only a hand full use pure base solutions. We need a good human study with oral “pure base” (no estrogenic additives)testosterone taken with saturated fat in a dose ranging from a few mgs to maybe up to 15mgs and calculate a full hormone panel as well as suppression effects at any particular dosages.

 

[Peater]

Right and I do believe oral testosterone like any androgen will be absorbed orally and this is shown well in studies. The devil is in the details with dosing this is a bit of uncharted territory as millions of men inject testosterone only a hand full use pure base solutions. We need a good human study with oral “pure base” (no estrogenic additives)testosterone taken with saturated fat in a dose ranging from a few mgs to maybe up to 15mgs and calculate a full hormone panel as well as suppression effects at any particular dosages.

But after 3 weeks the liver up-regulates itself anyway as I questioned above

 

[japanesedude]

@haidut, in a oral testosterone Undeconoate 40mg capsule, how much do think get absorbs orally?

according to wiki,it has 3-7 percent oral bioavailability.

 

[tallglass13]

according to wiki,it has 3-7 percent oral bioavailability.

thanks. I don't think I will use it. now that I know that esters are unhealthy.

 

[stevrd]

I'm not sure about the rules for posting sources on here. If any moderator has an issue with this, I will surely delete my post. I will not post any links at least. If you google "purple panda labs" you can get a hold of pure unesterified testosterone and DHT powder for pretty cheap. Purple Panda is a company owned by a white guy who moved to China to sell gear where it is legal there. Bitcoin is needed to purchase products. I've had bloods done and can confirm that the powder is of high purity. I can personally vouch for the purity of the products. I am currently working on my own endogenous T production with good success. As haidut said, pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA are wonderful for restoring T production. But, in the future I may consider experimenting with low dose T like Ray.

It would be interesting to make a raw testosterone and DHT gel combined in something like a 10:1 ratio, so as to mitigate aromatization and improve body composition.

@haidut or anyone else, what do you think about using Hcg for improving test levels? I'm thinking of experimenting with relatively low doses a few times a week. In one of Ray's articles he talks about it in a positive light, especially with it's ability to increase progesterone synthesis. To me it seems wise to try to increase testicle volume as much as possible. To me I've always a higher libido when my testicles felt "full," which is why I stopped using synthetic test years ago. Shutdown actually made libido/erections worse. I think we should all be studying ways to increase testicle size. So far only a few things (gonadin, T3, and Hcg) come to mind for me, but I'm sure there are other things we can think of.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm not sure about the rules for posting sources on here. If any moderator has an issue with this, I will surely delete my post. I will not post any links at least. If you google "purple panda labs" you can get a hold of pure unesterified testosterone and DHT powder for pretty cheap. Purple Panda is a company owned by a white guy who moved to China to sell gear where it is legal there. Bitcoin is needed to purchase products. I've had bloods done and can confirm that the powder is of high purity. I can personally vouch for the purity of the products. I am currently working on my own endogenous T production with good success. As haidut said, pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA are wonderful for restoring T production. But, in the future I may consider experimenting with low dose T like Ray.

It would be interesting to make a raw testosterone and DHT gel combined in something like a 10:1 ratio, so as to mitigate aromatization and improve body composition.

@haidut or anyone else, what do you think about using Hcg for improving test levels? I'm thinking of experimenting with relatively low doses a few times a week. In one of Ray's articles he talks about it in a positive light, especially with it's ability to increase progesterone synthesis. To me it seems wise to try to increase testicle volume as much as possible. To me I've always a higher libido when my testicles felt "full," which is why I stopped using synthetic test years ago. Shutdown actually made libido/erections worse. I think we should all be studying ways to increase testicle size. So far only a few things (gonadin, T3, and Hcg) come to mind for me, but I'm sure there are other things we can think of.

PPL doesn’t carry stanolone anymore.

Full testicles? Well, test + HCG. Why do you sound like it’s one or the other?