Oral Testosterone Coming To America

T

TheBeard

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It is Doctor Prescribed... Ok let the discussion and critique begin as I am sure this is promote the PROs and the CONs... I will be happy to answer any question about my labs. This was an April Lab and that was 6 months on Trans-crotal. My DHT is up in the high 300s RR 16-79 ng/dL. I use Pansterone daily to scrotum as I cannot tolerate any oral DHEA (I get some acne and oily skin), but the Pansterone really gives me a nice bump on sexdrive. I will run a 1 month HCG round every 3-4 months as it make me feel good as in better sense of well-being. I have no added bloat, no acne and no hairloss (although I am 55 and a tad thinner up-top). Overall I MUCH prefer this delivery overy any injection or other site cream application. I also take 1/2 grain armor.

Your bloods are perfect.
Although it’s true you don’t convert much to DHT or E2.
Do you take an AI?
 

Momado965

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And anything that keeps stress down and lots of calories and sugar and vitamin a to make preg and prog and cholesterol. I think many old school bodybuilders would eat 3 dozen eggs a day especially off season coming off steroids to restore androgen production

Good point.
 

cyclops

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It would be hard to see via blood tests and to tell how much is absorbed. It’s also hard to tell weather 2 mgs is fine but 3 mgs shuts you down(also via how much is being built up/stored in tissues at a given point). Between absorbability and your own biology and health it’s probably a cat chase with no end. At least high doses you can obtain high blood androgens and if you need to stop using testosterone your body will start producing it again. Most problems with trt are too high doses so too much estrogen or too low doses and just being at a bottom androgen range(from enough of a dose to shutdown but not enough to be beneficially anabolic and androgenic). Also the toxic esters. Symptoms are the only way I would know. Fatigue, anxiety, mood. Symptoms many people in general have.

Makes sense. So basically you should be feeling better when on, but try to take the minimum dose. Or if you wanna go real low maybe just do 1mg, I think I read Ray say that amount was safe. That would probably be safe to add to what u already got without shutting u down.
 
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Cameron

Cameron

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Makes sense. So basically you should be feeling better when on, but try to take the minimum dose. Or if you wanna go real low maybe just do 1mg, I think I read Ray say that amount was safe. That would probably be safe to add to what u already got without shutting u down.
In theory yes as long as you feel good and notice benefit but it really depends on how much you absorb. You may not absorb all the 1 mg. 1 mg of testosterone equals about 100ng/dL of blood testosterone. It’s all about absorbability vs suppression and if there is suppression you might as well use enough for great benefit
 

skycop00

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Do you weight train? In all honesty how is the physical and mental effects that is some high testosterone that cream is certainly working
Yes I have been an avid weight trainer and exerciser since 13 years old (now 55). I play ice hockey as well.
 

skycop00

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Also the estrogen, although high, is not as high as I have seen with other trt users using weekly injections. You don’t seem to convert much to estrogens or dht.
I have to tell you coming from the ERA of E2 control, I was very skeptical about allowing the E2 to raise in tandem with the Free and Total T. Initially it went up to about 78 and then settled where you see it in April. This really led me to believe that the RATIO is much more important than simply a lab number.
 
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Cameron

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I have to tell you coming from the ERA of E2 control, I was very skeptical about allowing the E2 to raise in tandem with the Free and Total T. Initially it went up to about 78 and then settled where you see it in April. This really led me to believe that the RATIO is much more important than simply a lab number.
For sure and overall I see more issues with very low estrogen then slightly “higher” estrogen with good blood levels of androgens. How you feel is everything and knowing that you have plenty of androgens to fuel athletic hobbies and stress of life is very beneficial. Do you put on muscle just as well as when you were using injectable testosterone protocols? Is diet good?
 

skycop00

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For sure and overall I see more issues with very low estrogen then slightly “higher” estrogen with good blood levels of androgens. How you feel is everything and knowing that you have plenty of androgens to fuel athletic hobbies and stress of life is very beneficial. Do you put on muscle just as well as when you were using injectable testosterone protocols? Is diet good?
Oh yes I am 5'9" and pretty athletic muscular build at 218lbs. All in all I feel fabulous at 55 and play with the younger men in my adult hockey leagues. Of course I'm not 25 anymore, but feel like I'm thriving at this age.
 

haidut

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How did you restore endogenous T production after you were shut down? I know for a fact that more than 10-15mg will shut me down. What I am after is increase in muscle mass and speeded fat loss. The shut down right now in my understanding seems easy to recover some b3, pamsterome or pregnenolone, t3 and vitamin A I think thats how you restored it.

When the dose you use is not high then simply stopping it for about a week restore endogenous production. Actually, there is evidence that there will be a "rebound" or sorts and the gonads will produce even more T than they were producing before the T supplementation.
Long-term suppression of Leydig cell steroidogenesis prevents Leydig cell aging. - PubMed - NCBI
Also, I was taking pregnenolon/DHEA at the time so I am sure that helped as well. That was 5 years ago. Nowadays a progesterone/DHEA combination is all I need and in fact in many aspects (especially mental/mood/cognition) it surpasses the effects of T.
 

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Pretty reliable that it had good absorbability then. You were at least getting a replacement dose from 15mgs if you noticed shutdown. How long was this usage did you recover levels pretty quickly? I injected 200mgs of cyp once last summer and noticed some negative mood effects for a day a week later but ended up with higher testosterone a month later lol.

I took it for about 10 says and then started noticing the shutdown (scrotum/gonads size, erection changes, etc). After stopping, it took about a week to recover which is not surprising considering the relatively low dose (by bodybuilding standards) I used. I was also taking about 100mg pregnenolone and 5mg DHEA daily at the advice of Peat and that probably accelerated the recovery. I don't use T any more and since that experiment 5+ years ago have relied only on pregnenolone/DHEA and lately on progesterone/DHEA for hormonal support. I think progesterone/DHEA in the right ratio can fully replace T if the goal is simply help and preventing catabolism. If the goal is to get hulky then T or other AAS are probably needed but since that is not my goal I stick to progesterone/DHEA for now.
 

haidut

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What did you take to restart your HPTA axis?

Stopping it for a week and using pregnenolone/DHEA. That dose is considered very mild by bodybuilding standards so I guess it was easier to recover than people injecting 600mg+ weekly.
 

brix

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Stopping it for a week and using pregnenolone/DHEA. That dose is considered very mild by bodybuilding standards so I guess it was easier to recover than people injecting 600mg+ weekly.

Right on. I feel like the 2mg I’m taking is suppressing me somewhat. Going to see if just dhea/preg can bring back some libido.
 
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Cameron

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I took it for about 10 says and then started noticing the shutdown (scrotum/gonads size, erection changes, etc). After stopping, it took about a week to recover which is not surprising considering the relatively low dose (by bodybuilding standards) I used. I was also taking about 100mg pregnenolone and 5mg DHEA daily at the advice of Peat and that probably accelerated the recovery. I don't use T any more and since that experiment 5+ years ago have relied only on pregnenolone/DHEA and lately on progesterone/DHEA for hormonal support. I think progesterone/DHEA in the right ratio can fully replace T if the goal is simply help and preventing catabolism. If the goal is to get hulky then T or other AAS are probably needed but since that is not my goal I stick to progesterone/DHEA for now.
Have you tried pure DHT? I’m always wondering if dht will become a form of hrt without suppressing testosterone or dhea and preg too much. Especially with recent studies on DHT helping treat colon cancer and mood disorders.
 
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Cameron

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I asked Danny Roddy and Ray there source for pure powders but no response. I would love to try these and I have the means to do extensive blood work. If anyone has purity tested raw testosterone or dht powder.
 

Nebula

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I think progesterone/DHEA in the right ratio can fully replace T if the goal is simply help and preventing catabolism.
Do you think DHT + a higher dose of pregnenolone and/or dhea would stimulate testosterone conversion from precursors without suppressing natural T production?
 

tallglass13

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Have you tried pure DHT? I’m always wondering if dht will become a form of hrt without suppressing testosterone or dhea and preg too much. Especially with recent studies on DHT helping treat colon cancer and mood disorders.
I actually do really well on DHT plus Progesterone. I get good mood with good libido. Mostly with testosterone I don't get the libido boost. I think test needs to paired with something too. Today Im doing Vit E with Test. so far so good.
 

Momado965

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When the dose you use is not high then simply stopping it for about a week restore endogenous production. Actually, there is evidence that there will be a "rebound" or sorts and the gonads will produce even more T than they were producing before the T supplementation.
Long-term suppression of Leydig cell steroidogenesis prevents Leydig cell aging. - PubMed - NCBI
Also, I was taking pregnenolon/DHEA at the time so I am sure that helped as well. That was 5 years ago. Nowadays a progesterone/DHEA combination is all I need and in fact in many aspects (especially mental/mood/cognition) it surpasses the effects of T.

Im gonna try the 50mg T for a few months probably less than that. It comes to my mind the ratio of aromatisable and non aromatisable steroid combination. In you androsterone thread you mentioned andro + dhea in 1:1 ration had unlimited androgenic and anabolic effects and the study deemed that an anomaly. How about 10mg T and 10mg dht + about 10mg pregnenolone INSTEAD of pansterone + andro/keto dht? And if you tried that before it would be way better than your always lovely educated speculation ;).
 
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Cameron

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would you recommend test Enanthate over test cyp? If the only option was ester based as test e from what I read is more pure. Some test e is used with mct oil as carrier


Stopping it for a week and using pregnenolone/DHEA. That dose is considered very mild by bodybuilding standards so I guess it was easier to recover than people injecting 600mg+ weekly.[/QUOTE
Stopping it for a week and using pregnenolone/DHEA. That dose is considered very mild by bodybuilding standards so I guess it was easier to recover than people injecting 600mg+ weekly.
@haidut would you recommend test Enanthate over test cywould you recommend test Enanthate over test cyp? If the only option was ester based as test e from what I read is more pure. Some test e is used with mct oil as carrierp? If the only option was ester based as test e from what I read is more pure. Some test e is used with mct oil as carrier
 
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Cameron

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Testosterone Enanthate does appear to be less toxic. The only reason we have cyp is to trade mark something to have in the US. Europe already had Enanthate. Test cyp has more of a known toxin and actually makes per mg less usable when injected.
 

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