Oral Health And Hair

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Kenny

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"Most" and "99%"?

Going to disagree - especially after what I've read on sites like these, Hackstasis, HairlossTalk and others. I also don't see any published peer reviewed literature suggesting such success rates (if temporary) for either of those two 'scrips.

I think the goal in the short-term is still to figure out a topical, while working to solve the riddle of the rest of the systemic processes that caused it in the first place. I'm about to jump into the pool with topical progesterone, as well as a topical antifungal - many discussed on here not only prevent fungi which cause inflammation, but also inhibit Estrogen and/or Aromatase in tissue.

Misspoke i meant upwards of 90%.

You seriously don't think most guys on dut/fin see a reduction in hair loss? It seems like they treat the 5ar inhibitors on Hairlosstalk as the holy grail - there seem to be quite a bunch of people who have seen a lot of success on those drugs on HLT. I haven't been to hackstasis or many others.
In general I'm inclined to defer to your judgement as you probably have more experience than me, however, I think that claim is a bit too much. The drugs do have a high likelihood to mess you up, but there are so many success stories for them.

@Ableton

Ray is of the mind that the shortcomings we may have can be overcome if we work on them intensely. And I think you can do a lot to make your children healthier than you were, by maximizing your health and that of the mother's before during and after pregnancy. Children are resilient, and the right environmental support early on can set powerful positive hormonal trends which they will carry through life. So yes, absolutely have children if you want to. But get healthier before you do. At any rate, many guys with premature balding have fertility problems and are often the reason why their girlfriend can't get pregnant, and not the other way around.

Wow that is frightening. I had better sort this ***t out lol.
 
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Wasn't it mentioned that B6 (p5P) is the most beneficial form - especially to increase absorption of zinc in the intestines? That's the one I use anyway.

What about P-5-P Complex, a combination of vitamin B6 with cofactors zinc, magnesium and vitamin B2
 

JDreamer

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@mrchibbs

I know I shared with you my recent diet change in an attempt to improve thyroid function. Things had been going well for about a month - especially the elimination of my cold feet and lower ab fat. Within the past two weeks the diet has slipped a little and I started using Listorine mouthwash after brushing. I completely forgot it contains flouride, which is a known thyroid inhibitor.

Sure enough - my cold feet are back. I'm feeling bloated, and somewhat agitated again.
 
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mrchibbs

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@mrchibbs

I know I shared with you my recent diet change in an attempt to improve thyroid function. Things had been going well for about a month - especially the elimination of my cold feet and lower ab fat. Within the past two weeks the diet has slipped a little and I started using Listorine mouthwash after brushing. I completely forgot it contains flouride, which is a known thyroid inhibitor.

Sure enough - my cold feet are back. I'm feeling bloating, and somewhat agitated again.

I've experienced the same thing. Even small amounts of fluoride suppress thyroid function.

I think this is an overlooked thing that Ray has warned against. He said that when he was in SF, even small amounts of fluoride would suppress thyroid function. It probably doesn't affect certain people as much, but guys like us have to watch out for it. The ultimate solution is to invest in a filter system for your entire house, but that is expensive. I suspect tons gets absorbed through the skin as well.

Extra taurine can help protect against the anti-thyroid effect of at least some fluoride exposure.

Keep your foot on the gas man! It's gonna take every change you can make to really get results. There's no half-assing. it.
 

JDreamer

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I've experienced the same thing. Even small amounts of fluoride suppress thyroid function.

I think this is an overlooked thing that Ray has warned against. He said that when he was in SF, even small amounts of fluoride would suppress thyroid function. It probably doesn't affect certain people as much, but guys like us have to watch out for it. The ultimate solution is to invest in a filter system for your entire house, but that is expensive. I suspect tons gets absorbed through the skin as well.

Extra taurine can help protect against the anti-thyroid effect of at least some fluoride exposure.

Keep your foot on the gas man! It's gonna take every change you can make to really get results. There's no half-assing. it.

Man you're so right about the water filtration. It's been something I've given a lot of thought too. The place I've been renting for the last 8 years was built back in the late 80's early 90's. My landlord has barely touched/improved a thing and it's like turning the Titanic to get him to act when needed. He's never had anyone just periodically come check things either.

I've long suspected issues with the water (based on a variety of factors) and have been lazy about investigating it. I thinks it's time that I do.
 

mrchibbs

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Man you're so right about the water filtration. It's been something I've given a lot of thought too. The place I've been renting for the last 8 years was built back in the late 80's early 90's. My landlord has barely touched/improved a thing and it's like turning the Titanic to get him to act when needed.

I've long suspected issues with the water (based on a variety of factors) and have been lazy about investigating it. I thinks it's time that I do.

I think so too. These types of ''difficult'' lifestyle/environment changes are where you can get the most improvements from.
 

gaze

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@yerrag

I've been thinking about this a lot and the gut oral health connection. Do you think if someone has a colony in their gum line, and clears the gut with carrot/mushrooms/ etc, that the endotoxin from the gum line can simply merge back down or through the blood and repopulate the gut? So if you take care of only one, it will never fix the low grade chronic bacterial infection. I personally have had high wbc/high BUN, and although bowel movements tend to give immediate relief it doesn't ever seem fully fixed. I also have some sensitive spot between my teeth and the gum, maybe what I described is going on?
 

yerrag

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@yerrag

I've been thinking about this a lot and the gut oral health connection. Do you think if someone has a colony in their gum line, and clears the gut with carrot/mushrooms/ etc, that the endotoxin from the gum line can simply merge back down or through the blood and repopulate the gut? So if you take care of only one, it will never fix the low grade chronic bacterial infection. I personally have had high wbc/high BUN, and although bowel movements tend to give immediate relief it doesn't ever seem fully fixed. I also have some sensitive spot between my teeth and the gum, maybe what I described is going on?

Sorry late reply, but had to give it some thought.

Oral issues and gut issues and systemic issues (everything inside the body) vary from individual to individual. In my case, I've had periodontal issues lurking unnoticed yet everything with my gut appeared normal, as defined as having no observable issues, and I would have hypertension which I had no idea was coming from hidden periodontal problems. Why is this the case I can only guess. Maybe it's because my gut wasn't free from periodontal bacteria, but that there's just enough of other bacteria that keeps it under control. Maybe my gut linings are able to maintain its tight junctions, not allowing bacteria to penetrate through, such that my gut isn't leaky that these bacteria will penetrate and translocate into my blood.

The same however could not be said of my gums. I've wondered before why my teeth just accumulates plaque so quickly before. Everytime I get my nails to scrape my teeth, there would always be a good film scraped off, but I would just wonder and leave it at that. This plaque or film doesn't go away after I brush, and the only way to remove it is to manually scrape with my fingernails, which I never get to do thoroughly nor even attempt to, since it's a lot of work. Given that I wan't much of calcium eater (drinking milk, eating cheese, or eating lots of cooked leaves wasn't part of my early lifestyle), I guess having poor calcium status in the teeth would be a given condition. Combined with the dental plaque, which probably indicates how much waste in the form of endotoxins my gut bacteria makes, which I suppose would travel from the gut to my mouth, it would make for endotoxins easily allowing bacteria to carve into my weak teeth and create a pith that allows bacteria to breach the gum line.

Perhaps if I were eating carrots and cooked bamboo shoots, which would lower bacterial levels in the gut, and if I were eating less foods that contain less soluble fibers (I was eating brown rice and whole wheat bread and oatmeals specifically for such fibers), I wouldn't have a lot of endotoxin waste going to my mouth and creating a lot of plaque. And if I were having good calcium intake, I would have teeth that were more formidable against endotoxins and bacteria, I wouldn't be so susceptible to periodontal issues.

In answer to your first question, I don't think it's endotoxins and bacteria traveling from the mouth to the gut that we have to be concerned about, but rather the other way around. I think the mouth itself can by itself easily establish bacterial balance, given how hard it is for biofilm to get established, given how the buccal areas are made that the only place left for biofilm to get established are the teeth surfaces. If I were brushing my teeth and flossing daily, it would be hard for biofilm to establish except if there were tons of them coming from where my daily brushing would not affect - the gut. Even if I were using a water picking and I were doing daily oil pulling, in addition to brushing and flossing, I would still need to have a twice yearly oral cleaning by the dentist to keep my teeth from developing biofilm. As I am to find out my experience, skipping my oral cleaning (aka oral prophylaxis) was what I did. And that was when I developed periodontitis and for that I have four less teeths to show for it. That isn't a big deal when I compare to the systemic effect it had on me - hypertension, which was merely a manifestation of arterial plaques. The effects are obvious on my kidneys, but less obvious effects are on the heart (manifested as arrhythmia, or irregular heart beats, as well as lower liver function (as indicated by higher liver enzyme values).

Periodontal bacteria easily translocate from the gum into the blood, and allowed to exist, being that it's hidden underneath the gum and not displaying any symptoms for a long time, it would take years before the dentist can see it. The sensitive spot you mention - that could be an indication but it could be something else, so we're not sure - until years later the teeth would start to fall off, and had to be removed - and that's when your dentist would realize you have periodontal disease. By then, a lot of bacteria would have already entered your blood, and this would have produced a lot of arterial plaque as well as immune complexes that would would deposit in the kidneys to cause your kidneys to function less optimally - manifested in the excretion of albumin in the urine, lower serum albumin, and lower glomerular filtration rates (eGFR - the 'e' stands for 'estimated').

These days, if your dentist refers you to a lab that uses dental cone beam x-ray, you may be able to have your dentist detect a previously hidden periodontal issue. Still, it's not able to detect a budding infection. The infection had to be large enough to be detected by the x-ray.

If you have high wbc and high neutrophils, it may be because of the low grade infection of bacteria getting into your blood from the periodontal issue. Coupled with the sensitive spot, a stronger case can be made that you have a periodontal issue. Still, it may not be a periodontal issue and it's best for you and the dentist to decide what next steps are. It may sometimes come down to making a decision to keep your teeth or to keep your health when you are not sure if a periodontal infection exists and whether it warrants removal of a tooth. Sometimes the dentist can make it such that the teeth can still stay, if an infection exists, but it would entail you having to clean the part of your gum beneath the gum line, and that is very difficult to do, as the gum will try to build up, but do so imperfectly that a tight seal may not happen. And when that happens, it's easy for bacteria to develop another colony there, as it's very hard for you to clean. But it's still possible that you can get a perfect seal back, and that is something that with better nutrition and supplementation, you can make the gum build back up quickly enough and fully enough that your impenetrable gum line is restored.

It matters that you have a very good dentist guiding you through this though. And what you know from this forum will also help you heal that gum, something which your dentist may be limited in, in doing so.

Hope this helps.
 

gaze

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@yerrag

I have the exact same thing, for as long as I can remember whenever I scrape my teeth, there seems to be some plague. my main idea recently has been that because of lots of rounds of antibiotics, for whatever reason my intestinal bacteria produce 0 K2 (which ray says to supplement if taking antibiotics), however I haven’t tested it enough to confirm if it helps. anyway, that was a very thoughtful reply and lots of food for thought that I have to ponder about, I sincerely appreciate it:hattip
 

yerrag

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@yerrag

I have the exact same thing, for as long as I can remember whenever I scrape my teeth, there seems to be some plague. my main idea recently has been that because of lots of rounds of antibiotics, for whatever reason my intestinal bacteria produce 0 K2 (which ray says to supplement if taking antibiotics), however I haven’t tested it enough to confirm if it helps. anyway, that was a very thoughtful reply and lots of food for thought that I have to ponder about, I sincerely appreciate it:hattip
You're welcome!
 

Pdohlen

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Re-read this thread, This Is A Big Piece Of The Health Puzzle

investigate Dr Ellie Phillips' advice. In short, or my understanding:

Mouthwash in the morning - Closys (or any which contains Chlorine Dioxide)
Brush
Xylitol after every meal/drink or anything comes in your mouth which is acidic (PH below 7).
In the evening mouthwash - Listerine original.
Brush
Xylitol
Sleep
Repeat..

Have two toothbrushes - one for morning and one for evening. Bacterias die off if dried for 24hrs.
Brush after morning wash since then you push the desinfectants into every gap.
Careful of flossing, you might be pushing bacterias into the bloodstream.
Do not use any products containing Glycerin.
Xylitol gums or mints should be 100% sweetened with Xylitol. Some contains sorbitol and maltitol, which builds bad plaque.
 

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