Optimal Sodium Intake Is At Least 230% Higher Than RDA

[Such_Saturation]

see this is where 'better' is subjective. Such high sodium is a sedative and mind quieter, but it really reduces higher mind functioning and awareness...ability to sense things, quite profoundly. You have to eat low salt long enough to realize this. Its like saying a pain killer or cough medicine makes you 'feel better'. I guess what im going for is different, I suppose this is why the recommendation is salt to taste so we can adjust to our preferences depending on the outcome we each want

I'm not sure you should be getting less than a half dozen grams of salt. All those studies claiming three to six grams as optimal used sodium excretion. Sodium is less than half the weight of salt.

 

[gretchen]

see this is where 'better' is subjective. Such high sodium is a sedative and mind quieter, but it really reduces higher mind functioning and awareness...ability to sense things, quite profoundly. You have to eat low salt long enough to realize this. Its like saying a pain killer or cough medicine makes you 'feel better'. I guess what im going for is different, I suppose this is why the recommendation is salt to taste so we can adjust to our preferences depending on the outcome we each want

I can see how this could be true. Otoh, if you are worn down, the extra salt helps. How do you know it reduces higher mind functioning? I actually really dislike the whole several tablespoons of salt a day thing-- so gaggy and not normal.

 

[pboy]

I guess im sensitive, I prefer my environment near silent most of the time, outside the sounds of nature...and I think a lot, and keep a regular rythmn. So I notice when anything is a bit off, and with a lot of salt I am more like...erratic of heart, and less calm and letting insight come in. I think it actually interferes with digestion of food in high amounts too, cause ill get different gastric patterns

yea heavily salting food isn't really normal, you have to let your taste buds regrow for a few days without salt to notice. The first time I did this for maybe a week then added a few shakes of salt, it felt like I was drinking ocean water and I kind of made a nasty face spontaneously. I really thing it deadens taste buds to every other taste, the sublte ones. A few pinches doesn't do that much, but more than that...I think its no good. Others claim different experience but that's actually what happens with me

 

[Parsifal]

If I remember well RP wrote that salt can be addictive and the more you get the more you need especially if you lack balance with other minerals?

 

[tara]

post 101171 If I remember well RP wrote that salt can be addictive and the more you get the more you need especially if you lack balance with other minerals?

I don't remember this - if you find it again, a link would be interesting.
I would guess that increased salt intake would result in decrease aldosterone, because it is not needed so much to retain sodium. If you then suddenly reduce salt intake, the lowered aldosterone might take a while to increase again, and in the interim, you might get a low sodium problem?

 

[Parsifal]

I don't remember this - if you find it again, a link would be interesting.
I would guess that increased salt intake would result in decrease aldosterone, because it is not needed so much to retain sodium. If you then suddenly reduce salt intake, the lowered aldosterone might take a while to increase again, and in the interim, you might get a low sodium problem?

From "Nutrition for women" page 74:

A craving for "salt" is normally satisfied with sodium chloride (in bacon, cheese, crackers, olives, etc.), which doesn't meet the body's needs. Taking sodium as an additive suppresses the hormone which enables the body to retain sodium, and so it is physiologically addictive. In addition, the precursor hormone may accumulate, and this hormone produces inflammation (in joints, especially, as shown by the work of Hans Selye and his associates). If we could satisfy the salt craving with a balanced salt, including potassium and magnesium and calcium, we would probably be more comfortable and would avoid the salt (sodium) addiction.

 

[Parsifal]

I never craved salt even when my blood aldosterone was really high after not eating salt for a very long period of time...

I wonder what is the precursor. Does he say that the precursor is inflammatory of just aldosterone?

 

[Giraffe]

post 57473 I take about at least 12-15 g/day of salt and 3g bicarbonate to offset the chloride.

Can you explain this about offsetting the chloride or direct me to a source where I can read more?

 

[Barry Obummer]

see this is where 'better' is subjective. Such high sodium is a sedative and mind quieter, but it really reduces higher mind functioning and awareness...ability to sense things, quite profoundly. You have to eat low salt long enough to realize this. Its like saying a pain killer or cough medicine makes you 'feel better'. I guess what im going for is different, I suppose this is why the recommendation is salt to taste so we can adjust to our preferences depending on the outcome we each want

There is this one rogue study that says that sodium increases adrenaline. I couldn't find any other studies. Salt Boosts Blood Pressure, but via Adrenalin

 

[Barry Obummer]

Finally, some sanity is coming out of popular science. This latest study shows that some people can lose up to 30g of sodium a day and this can wreak havoc on their calcium and magnesium levels, just like Ray said. What is interesting is that the borderline (i.e. minimally acceptable) levels of sodium intake for keeping calcium and magnesium level are much higher than the FDA published RDA. Basically, you need at least 63mg/kg of body weight daily sodium intake to prevent the chronic loss of calcium and magnesium. I attached one of the images from the study for reference.
Also, anything below that intake will increase (not decrease) water retention, again, just like Ray said. Finally, one of the main factors in determining sodium retention are carbon dioxide levels. So, Ray's quote that hypothyroidism can be simply defined as the chronic loss of sodium and carbon dioxide appears to be on solid grounds.
For those looking or specific recommendations, since salt is about 40% sodium, you need 10g-15g of salt daily to meet the requirements of the study. If you use sodium bicarbonate, it is about 27% sodium so that equates to 20g-22g daily intake of baking soda to meet the requirements. Interestingly enough, ingesting 20g-22g of sodium bicarbonate a day is what is typically used in studies showing ergogenic (performance) benefit for athletes.
Keep in mind this assumes that you get your sodium only from those sources. Since most people ingest sodium through the various foods they eat during the day, in reality you can lower the above listed intakes, but even if you ingest 61mg/kg of supplemental sodium in top of what you already eat, it should not be a problem as Ray has said that higher sodium intake can only do good.
A very interesting read that I recommend everyone should familiarize themselves with if they ever had any fear of salt/sodium.

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/10 ... d-for.html

That article says "As previously discussed, studies by Luther et al. (2011) even suggest that reducing sodium too much will not just increase water retention, the consequent increase in aldosterone may even impair your glucose sensitivity"

Could you explain this in a not so technical manner? I am learning but a lot of stuff on this forum goes over my head.

 

[Peater Piper]

Higher levels of aldosterone seem to decrease insulin sensitivity, meaning excessively low sodium could lead to a degree of insulin resistance. Also, dumping magnesium probably isn't great for insulin sensitivity either. That said, I hardly ever crave salty foods, and only add a bit of salt to food for taste. I probably only average about 2k milligrams of sodium a day. I tried adding in an additional teaspoon of salt per day (basically doubling my sodium intake) for several weeks. All it did was make me thirsty and increase my blood pressure a bit. No improvement in postprandial glucose levels.

Low-salt diet increases insulin resistance in healthy subjects. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Giraffe]

That article says "As previously discussed, studies by Luther et al. (2011) even suggest that reducing sodium too much will not just increase water retention, the consequent increase in aldosterone may even impair your glucose sensitivity"

Could you explain this in a not so technical manner? I am learning but a lot of stuff on this forum goes over my head.

If you are low in sodium the albumin can't hold the water in the blood, so it leaks into the surrounding tissue causing edema. One of aldosterone's chief functions is to cause the kidneys to retain sodium, so aldosterone is increased when sodium is low.

 

[superhuman]

@Giraffe why is it then if i increase regular salt intake it increases my edema/water retention?

if i do alot of sodium bicarb it reduces water retention, probably because of increased co2?

 

[Barry Obummer]

Contrary Studies, though I am not pretending that I understand them.

Effect of sodium intake on insulin sensitivity | Endocrinology and Metabolism
"These data suggest that 1) high sodium intake may exacerbate insulin resistance by increasing circulating free fatty acids, and 2) differences in sodium intake may influence measures of insulin sensitivity in other disease states."

High sodium intake is associated with increased glucocorticoid production, insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome - Baudrand - 2013 - Clinical Endocrinology - Wiley Online Library
"High sodium diet was associated with increased urinary cortisol and its metabolites. Also, HS diet was associated with HT, insulin resistance, dyslipidaemia and hypoadiponectinaemia, even when adjusting by confounding variables"

 

[Barry Obummer]

@Giraffe why is it then if i increase regular salt intake it increases my edema/water retention?

if i do alot of sodium bicarb it reduces water retention, probably because of increased co2?

I'm confused about this too.

 

[blackkzeus]

Any rebuttals to the studies posted by Barry Obummer?

 

[paymanz]

Of curse too much salt makes problem.

But low salt diet also decrease insulin sensitivity.


Salt to taste is answer I think.as ray recommends.

 

[thyrulian]

Of curse too much salt makes problem.

But low salt diet also decrease insulin sensitivity.


Salt to taste is answer I think.as ray recommends.

Hmm, maybe as with calcium it's a matter of what excitotoxic thing drives sodium into the cell?

Just speculating.

 

[thyrulian]

A significant increase in [Na+]i is a characteristic event associated with tissue injury 6–9,42,87,92. Application of voltage-gated Na+ channel blockers reduce both Na+ entry and apoptotic neuronal death 7whereas increases of Na+ entry by application of the voltage-gated Na+ channel activator, veratridine, induce neuronal apoptosis and caspase-3 activation 7,8. There is a report showing that during anoxia Na+entry can occur through either Gd3+-sensitive channels or via Na+/K+/2Cl− co-transporters in cultured hippocampal neurons 88, implying that multiple pathways for Na+ entry may be activated during tissue injury.

It is known that Na+ influx into the cell is accompanied by chloride ions (Cl−) and water, which can lead to acute neuronal swelling and damage 25,26. Previous studies have shown that Na+ entry may cause an increase in cytosolic Ca2+ through either Na+/Ca2+ exchangers or activation of voltage-gated Ca2+channels 17,53, thereby activating Ca2+-dependent signaling mechanisms. Moreover, Na+ entry via Na+/H+exchange may cause changes in intracellular pH, and thereby regulate many cellular functions including enzyme activity, neuronal growth and death 10,18,70,71,88,89.
THE ROLE OF INTRACELLULAR SODIUM (Na+) IN THE REGULATION OF CALCIUM (Ca2+)-MEDIATED SIGNALING AND TOXICITY

Under acid-load conditions trimetazide [sic] acts in a dose- and time-dependent manner, in limiting the accumulation of Na+ and Ca2+ inside cardiac cells and depressing intracellular cell acidosis. It is proposed that trimetazidine plays a key role in limiting the intracellular accumulation of protons that is responsible for cell acidosis during ischemia. Trimetazidine, in protecting cardiac cells against accumulation of protons, limits accumulation of Na+ and Ca2+.
Internal pH, Na+, and Ca2+ regulation by trimetazidine during cardiac cell acidosis.

Trimetazidine enhances glucose oxidation and so would increase CO2, which I remember has the same effect. I'm sure a terrible diet outside of sodium consumption is majorly to blame for the conflicting evidence.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I've read ray say salt to taste.

There are numerous studies to me that suggest we have a salt appetite that is quite reliable. I wouldn't add more salt than I feel like eating.