Onion And Garlic Combo Is Effective Against MRSA

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,431
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    I saw this news today and immediately thought of the "thebigpeatowski" garlic treatment for stomach ailments. It looks like despite what most doctor's consider as a very mild bactericidal activity of either garlic or onion on their own, together the combination was very potent and destroyed MRSA that even gentamicin has trouble handling. They even have a recipe at the end: equal amounts of garlic and onion finely chopped and mixed with 25ml of wine and some bile salts. In the absence of bile salts, you can use taurine as it does pretty much the same thing. I just don't know how much taurine would be needed but 1g-2g to match Ray's recommendations would probably be fine.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nott ... e-32117815
     
  2. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    6,377
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Uganda
    Haidut,

    Your post made me remember that excess dietary sugar - as much as lack of - is detrimental to gut microbes.
    I always thought that simpler life forms thrive on sugars, and they do, but there's a limiting factor. Too much of it becomes toxic and it's the reason why fruit jelly don't spoil and can be preserved for a long.
    *Edit: forgot to write that bacterial growth is really fast, and their own by-products seem to limit their ability to grow. Just like the graphs that we see from bacterial populations over time - they seem to grow a lot at first, then there's a decay until reach stability. An environment full of sugar and as a consequence its by-products becomes toxic in some way.
    It is also one more reason why we should eat a balanced diet instead of extreme ones.
     
  3. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    6,377
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Uganda
    Check the Osmophiles article on Wikipedia..

    It supports the idea that excess sugar creates an environment for some specific yeasts and bacterias, possible pathogenic, and as a consequence a dysbiotic gut.
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,431
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Thanks, that's an interesting read.
     
  5. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    826
    The effect of the allicin component of garlic on MRSA infection has been investigated for over a decade. However, there are only half a dozen references on PubMed, compared to hundreds investigating pharmaceutical treatments. The thought about taurine is intriguing, as was the inclusion of bile salts in the old recipe. AFAIK there is scant literature about direct taurine effects on bacterial infections.

    Since treating resistant bacteria is an important, it appears that limited commercial opportunity with garlic relates to limited clinical study so far. The Nottingham AncientBiotics team work has the allure of mixing history and health care.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25153873
    Molecules. 2014 Aug 19;19(8):12591-618. doi: 10.3390/molecules190812591.
    Allicin: chemistry and biological properties.
    Borlinghaus J1, Albrecht F1, Gruhlke MC1, Nwachukwu ID2, Slusarenko AJ3.

    "In a dose-dependent manner allicin can inhibit the proliferation of both bacteria and fungi or kill cells outright, including antibiotic-resistant strains like methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). Furthermore, in mammalian cell lines, including cancer cells, allicin induces cell-death and inhibits cell proliferation."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15250668
    Br J Biomed Sci. 2004;61(2):71-4.
    Antibacterial activity of a new, stable, aqueous extract of allicin against methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus.
    Cutler RR1, Wilson P.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21921868
    Molecules. 2011 Sep 15;16(9):7958-68. doi: 10.3390/molecules16097958.
    Allicin reduces the production of α-toxin by Staphylococcus aureus.
    Leng BF1, Qiu JZ, Dai XH, Dong J, Wang JF, Luo MJ, Li HE, Niu XD, Zhang Y, Ai YX, Deng XM.

    http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressr ... rbugs.aspx
    "Dr Harrison concludes: 'The rise of antibiotic resistance in pathogenic bacteria and the lack of new antimicrobials in the developmental pipeline are key challenges for human health. There is a pressing need to develop new strategies against pathogens because the cost of developing new antibiotics is high and eventual resistance is likely. This truly cross-disciplinary project explores a new approach to modern health care problems by testing whether medieval remedies contain ingredients which kill bacteria or interfere with their ability to cause infection'.

    The AncientBiotics team at Nottingham is seeking more funding to extend this fascinating research which combines the arts and sciences, past and present."
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,431
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Thanks. I saw a study long time ago comparing taurine to taurocholate (a bile salt) as an emulsifier and antioxidant found them to be identical. So, knowing that some people will rush to make their own remedy with this, I wanted to suggest something practical. It does not mean however that I have tried it myself and know it works.
     
  7. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,745
    Gender:
    Female
    I have to chime in here because I have been thinking a LOT about this whole area....My opinion is that folks like myself, who come to a Peatish way of eating from a very low carb background, are in for a real shock when they suddenly add more carbs to their diet.

    I agree with Amazoniac that the excess of carbs can and will over feed certain gut microbes. These bugs then flourish and irritate the intestines, hence bloating and diarrhea. I also think these microbes are somehow contributing to obesity. One would think that fat gain in the face of chronic diarrhea would be mutually exclusive, not so.

    Is this the mechanism for WHY low carb diets are so successful for weight loss, via simply starving out the obesegenic microbes? It works great for a little while initially, at least until your metabolism completely tanks. A high fat low-carb diet certainly is NOT a cure, nor is it viable for long term optimal health.

    My experience has been that every single time I have taken an antibiotic/antifungal, whether herbal/natural or pharmaceutical, I get not only a major shift in mood, but also metabolism.

    Gut bacterial imbalance and the resulting endotoxin seems to contribute to all kinds of mayhem: excess serotonin, histamine, estrogen etc. all of which mess with metabolism. I guess this is why Peat is so fond of antibiotics....but some people, like me, cannot tolerate taking them.


    Eating onions and garlic a couple times a week, along with the raw carrot, keeps things in perfect balance for me and allows me to eat all the carbs I need for a healthy metabolism without the chronic gut issues. :2cents

    Perhaps there should be a HUGE warning posted somewhere for newbies...something like: Add carbs back SLOWLY and taking antibiotics (herbal or pharmaceutical) while doing so....perhaps this could prevent a whole lot of needless suffering?
     
  8. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    6,377
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Uganda
    Eating raw onion with no problems is already a good sign of gut health.
    I would also add to the warning: Just because you lost your fear of carbs, doesn't mean that they will solve all of your problems; and it doesn't mean that the more you increase, the better you will be.
     
  9. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,745
    Gender:
    Female
    Agreed...I'm merely pointing out that I went from one extreme to the other, from NO carbs to too many carbs (and it was a helluva ride), a nice balance in the middle suits me just fine :cool:

    Onions and garlic, even though they're stinky, are definitely helping me to maintain homeostasis.
     
  10. Zachs

    Zachs Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    593
    Won't onions actually feed bacteria because of their prebiotic nature?
     
  11. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,745
    Gender:
    Female
    YES Zachs they do feed bacteria.... I am practicing a Weed & Feed approach, like combie mentioned somewhere in another thread. I have found through much food elimination and experimentation that certain fibers feed certain microbes that keep my guts happy by keeping other microbes at bay, if that makes any sense.

    Don't ask which group I'm feeding and which ones I'm weeding out cuz I have NO idea and I'm sure there are many strains....I can tell you that too much Candida gives me diarrhea. I've learned that I must micromanage my gut flora to keep the Candida in check as I have no appendix, plus I'm an old woman and I think estrogen promotes endotoxin....so this is something that I personally must do to keep digestion good and metabolism up.

    I don't accomplish this through carb restriction or eating fermented foods (tried both and they don't work for me). I manage it through a wide variety of foods that I eat feeding some bacteria that keep the yeast and other microbes in check.
     
  12. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,745
    Gender:
    Female
    Here's a quote from RP that I copied from the Functional PS site that I think applies to my own situation:

    "The continuing efficient production of energy is a basic aspect of metabolic defense, and this is interrupted by carrageenan and endotoxin. The energy failure becomes part of a vicious circle, in which permeability of the intestine is increased by the very factors that it should exclude.”



    I got trapped in this vicious circle and HAD to use the extreme measure of Raw Garlic plus total starch elimination for several months to pull out of the tail spin, the carrot salad was not strong enough for me at that time. I'm not recommending this to anyone, it's just what I had to do to correct a major imbalance as I don't tolerate regular antibiotics.
     
  13. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    6,377
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Uganda
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum_sensing#Bacteria
     
  14. InterrogaOmnia

    InterrogaOmnia Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    129
    Do cooked onions and garlic still have a similar effect, perhaps much weaker? I've been eating a combination of mushrooms, fresh garlic, and onions fried in coconut oil the past week and a half. Almost every day actually. Initially i saw a huge increase in gas which was pretty potent, and a change in my bowel movements. But it's been steadily reducing and I swear that my energy levels are improving rapidly. This could also be due to the better weather lately but it's hard to tell.
     
  15. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,745
    Gender:
    Female
    Cooking does reduce some of their potency, but it's a great way to ease them into your diet. Going full on raw when you aren't used to eating them can be brutal ;)
     
  16. mt_dreams

    mt_dreams Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    619
    If you plan on cooking garlic, a good habit to get into the habit of doing is dicing & crushing the garlic 10 min before you plan on cooking it. The dice & crushing of the garlic will release more allicin so when you cook it you will still have some left over after some has degraded due to the heat.
     
  17. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,751
    Location:
    UK
    For me cooked onions (part of a soup or stew) seems to cause noisy digestion - the sound of digestive juice churning. Nothing painful, no bloating, just noise.
     
  18. Peata

    Peata Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,400
    Gender:
    Female
    I'm trying a variation of this because my diarrhea has been back for a couple weeks and I wonder if I have SIBO despite testing negative for it. I tried the garlic before but couldn't stick with it long enough. This time I am going to see it through. It might help not only the diarrhea but the sensitivity I'm still experiencing to things like orange juice (bloat, diarrhea, gas), and could end up helping me in other ways (reflux, cough, weight?). This is a good time to try it because the rest of my diet is pretty stable and I just had a bad incident last night after trying to drink 2 c. orange juice (might have been the excess liquid or the acidity though I added sugar). I had diarrhea, gas, swelling, and periods of chill. I am still retaining water from it this a.m. So evidently not all my bloat probls were due to estrogen but digestion/microbes...

    Here is what I'm doing:

    1 large garlic clove, minced
    equal amount minced red onion
    1 t. ACV
    salt
    1/2 t. sugar or fructose

    Let sit at least 5 min. I chew it but not thoroughly and hold my breath sometimes if it gets to be too much. It really wasn't too awful because I'm used to eating pickled veg or salad with vinagrette in the past.

    I also take Taurine anyway, but I'll start timing it around this.
     
  19. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,431
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Just wanted to say that now we can add aspirin to the list of substances that can kill MRSA. And it was a pretty low dose aspirin at that.
    Aspirin As A "novel" Potent Anti-bacterial Agent | Ray Peat Forum
     
  20. X3CyO

    X3CyO Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    390
    Gender:
    Male
    Redbull aspirin. Garlic onion. Sounds delicious. :grin
     
Loading...