One Year Of "Peating"

[iPeat]

Hello, everyone. I'm new to the forum but have been "Peating" for one year this month. I only say, "Peating" as a short hand. I understand Dr. Peat would not approve of some of the things I'm doing.

Firstly, right off the bat, as this is my first post, I would like to thank everybody on this forum that have shared their experiences and experiments. That information has been invaluable to me and has given me the wonderful experience of improving the health of myself and that of my immediate family. I honestly can't thank you guys enough.

I'm writing this mainly because I've had some interesting results that I don't see written about much here and like most people here, I loves the data, so I'm sharing it (some of it may sound unbelievable). My health improvements seem to come in a staircase fashion. I feel/see an improvement, which comes with some sort of "healing crisis." I'm not going to explain any of it so the post stays short.


Positives:

Acne gone
General skin health greatly improved
Hair loss completely stopped (Norwood 2)
Foamy urine is now a rare occurrence
Asthma is now nonexistent
Initial extreme improvement in energy and mental well-being
Improved visual awareness (this one actually causes me anxiety)
Social anxiety is very low
Rarely get sick, and when I do, it's very brief and light
Heavily cracked toenails have drastically improved
My 5 year-old son, who dropped from >90th% on the growth chart to <10th% (I blame myself for this), has shot up repeatedly month after month, eating constantly, and is now starting to resemble other boys his age

The "unbelievable" stuff (to me at least):
Surgically repaired inguinal hernia pain is gone (almost 20 years of daily pain)
Tibial anteversion (right foot only) has decreased from a 40 degree angle to 10 degrees
Several teeth with cavities at the gum line have filled in approx. 60%
Umbilical hernia (not repaired) vanished


Negatives (just to clarify, I am not attributing any of the following to Ray Peat in any way):

First month I had "lightning bolts" in my vision
A lot of large eye-floaters
Initial energy improvement seems to have turned into an utter lack of motivation
Constant low-grade anxiety
Gained 40 lbs. (can't seem to lose it either)
Adrenalin rushes (rare)
Palpatations (also rare)
Dissociation/derealization (this really freaks me out and happens almost daily, yet brief)
Twice now I have experienced Anorgasmia (I have never had a problem in this area before)
Slight ED
Libido is very low (again, never had this problem before)


Neutral-ish:

About 2 weeks ago I felt something different about the way I was using energy. Sounds weird but I just knew something was different. I decided to bag-breath. I stopped my timer 10:30, and I only stopped because I was getting nervous about the length of time. I normally get the panic signals at 1:30 and push through to 2:00.


That's all I can think of at the moment. I feel like I'm forgetting some things. I'm a 36 year-old male. Quick background is a history of horrible panic attacks and general anxiety disorder in my early 20's, followed by a few years of SSRIs, then 2 years of Paleo, then 3 years of Keto. Heavy exerciser the whole time (mostly cardio-type activities). This time last year I was in the best physical shape of my life (by appearances only), but like Haidut, I got a horrible sinus infection that just wouldn't go away even with several rounds of antibiotics. I just happened to be listening to that podcast at that time and the light bulb went off. I am doing quite a bit of the Peat-y things and taking a number of supplements talked about a lot here. Eating fruits, drinking OJ, milk, eating cheese, liver, oysters, etc. One thing I seem to do that is not talked about that often here, as far as I can see (correct me if I'm wrong), is make and eat my own marmalade.

Thanks again guys. Hopefully, someone will find this information helpful in their own health journey.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Hello, everyone. I'm new to the forum but have been "Peating" for one year this month. I only say, "Peating" as a short hand. I understand Dr. Peat would not approve of some of the things I'm doing.

Firstly, right off the bat, as this is my first post, I would like to thank everybody on this forum that have shared their experiences and experiments. That information has been invaluable to me and has given me the wonderful experience of improving the health of myself and that of my immediate family. I honestly can't thank you guys enough.

I'm writing this mainly because I've had some interesting results that I don't see written about much here and like most people here, I loves the data, so I'm sharing it (some of it may sound unbelievable). My health improvements seem to come in a staircase fashion. I feel/see an improvement, which comes with some sort of "healing crisis." I'm not going to explain any of it so the post stays short.


Positives:

Acne gone
General skin health greatly improved
Hair loss completely stopped (Norwood 2)
Foamy urine is now a rare occurrence
Asthma is now nonexistent
Initial extreme improvement in energy and mental well-being
Improved visual awareness (this one actually causes me anxiety)
Social anxiety is very low
Rarely get sick, and when I do, it's very brief and light
Heavily cracked toenails have drastically improved
My 5 year-old son, who dropped from >90th% on the growth chart to <10th% (I blame myself for this), has shot up repeatedly month after month, eating constantly, and is now starting to resemble other boys his age

The "unbelievable" stuff (to me at least):
Surgically repaired inguinal hernia pain is gone (almost 20 years of daily pain)
Tibial anteversion (right foot only) has decreased from a 40 degree angle to 10 degrees
Several teeth with cavities at the gum line have filled in approx. 60%
Umbilical hernia (not repaired) vanished


Negatives (just to clarify, I am not attributing any of the following to Ray Peat in any way):

First month I had "lightning bolts" in my vision
A lot of large eye-floaters
Initial energy improvement seems to have turned into an utter lack of motivation
Constant low-grade anxiety
Gained 40 lbs. (can't seem to lose it either)
Adrenalin rushes (rare)
Palpatations (also rare)
Dissociation/derealization (this really freaks me out and happens almost daily, yet brief)
Twice now I have experienced Anorgasmia (I have never had a problem in this area before)
Slight ED
Libido is very low (again, never had this problem before)


Neutral-ish:

About 2 weeks ago I felt something different about the way I was using energy. Sounds weird but I just knew something was different. I decided to bag-breath. I stopped my timer 10:30, and I only stopped because I was getting nervous about the length of time. I normally get the panic signals at 1:30 and push through to 2:00.


That's all I can think of at the moment. I feel like I'm forgetting some things. I'm a 36 year-old male. Quick background is a history of horrible panic attacks and general anxiety disorder in my early 20's, followed by a few years of SSRIs, then 2 years of Paleo, then 3 years of Keto. Heavy exerciser the whole time (mostly cardio-type activities). This time last year I was in the best physical shape of my life (by appearances only), but like Haidut, I got a horrible sinus infection that just wouldn't go away even with several rounds of antibiotics. I just happened to be listening to that podcast at that time and the light bulb went off. I am doing quite a bit of the Peat-y things and taking a number of supplements talked about a lot here. Eating fruits, drinking OJ, milk, eating cheese, liver, oysters, etc. One thing I seem to do that is not talked about that often here, as far as I can see (correct me if I'm wrong), is make and eat my own marmalade.

Thanks again guys. Hopefully, someone will find this information helpful in their own health journey.

Really awesome improvements. It sounds like the worst problems are some energy and weight problems (which are common here), and some Libido issues. Overall, if you are experiencing better health, these issues are somewhat minor in the grand scheme of things (especially if temporary), but no doubt, they suck. If you were coming from low carb or keto, 5-10 pounds of that gain could be due to glycogen replenishment, but that still means 30 other pounds of fat/edema/inflammation (I'm getting less and less convinced over time it's just "fat').

You may be interested in this thread - Gut Inflammation As The Driver Of Visceral Fat And Fatty Liver

Also, it seems the people who have had "effortless" weight loss here do so by either going very low starch or very low fat, or by fixing liver issues (which could relate back to the first point.) I don't know if you saw Haidut's post on how he lost his original weight gain, but here it is (from the thread https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/weight-loss-strategies.17223/)-

"Aspirin and caffeine are additive in their effect on mitochondrial uncoupling. Hence the reason the (in)famous stack ECA had ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin in it. If you can handle the high dosages of caffeine combined with aspirin then by all means go for it. I think the effects of aspirin would depend on the dose. In smaller doses it likely blocks lipolysis and in higher doses it increases fat oxidation. All I know is that when I was taking 500mg a day and 500mg-1,000mg niacinamide a day (without caffeine) I was not losing weight but felt like gaining instead. But this could be due to me being hypothyroid at the time.
For people trying to lose weight, I'd still focus on caffeine and K2 until their liver function normalizes (as measured by both enzymes and tolerance to caffeine). If I had to reproduce my experiment, I'd still go the caffeine route and add niacinamide only after losing excess fat.

"I have not written on Peatarian.com as I find the site to be highly argumentative. I supposed there is some value in arguing about this, but my goal is not to argue - it is to find the truth for myself. I trust what read and experiment with more than anybody's argument, even Peat's. I will look at studies posted by other people but I find it very often that the person with a strong argument has some sort of vested interest to convince others that he/she is right. All studies I have seen say, and I have confirmed through my own blood tests, that lipogenesis from carbs is not a practical issue for most people. That seems to be true for me. However, carbs can and do become an issue for people with fatty livers. I have not answered for myself if it is best to just force through the fat burning period to get the liver lean and then refeed on proper carbs and moderate saturated fat, or if it is better to keep loading up on carbs (and block lipolysis) and hope the liver with get rid of the PUFA and excess fat through glucoronidation after several years like Peat suggests. Each method has its pros and cons and it will likely be a unique experience for each person. I think moderate fat burning is probably fine for most people. Even babies burn fat when they are born, but it is indeed saturated fat. I am not sure I agree fully with Peat that it takes 4 years to get rid of PUFA. The study on monkey I posted says all PUFA can be depleted with just 30 days of fat free meals. So, in the more realistic scenario of a person on this forum eating mostly saturated fat and some PUFA, it will probably take several months to a year but nowhere close to the 4 years Peat is quoting. If you have decent vitamin E stores, I don't see a need to block lipolysis completely by aspirin and niacinamide since the free fatty acids in the blood will get saturated and should pose less danger. There are tons of studies showing vitamin E fully prevents harmful lipid peroxidation due to exercise. Taurine has been shown to do the same.

"I have lost most of my extra weight I gained on Peat by stopping niacinamide and aspirin, avoiding PUFA whenever possible, keeping vitamin E levels close to the upper normal range in labs, keeping protein normal (80g-100g), and not really restricting sugar except making sure I consume no starch like bread, rice, potatoes, etc. It actually worked quite easily and it took about 3 months to drop the 30 extra pounds I had, and the only exercise I do is walk several miles a day at a slow pace and do pushups 3 times a week. Not exactly a hardcore exercise schedule."

If you are wondering, the bolding is my emphasis, and my key takeaways.

 

[Tarmander]

If I could go back and start Peat again, I would not do liver or as much dairy. I think I ran into the most problems from those.

 

[tankasnowgod]

If I could go back and start Peat again, I would not do liver or as much dairy. I think I ran into the most problems from those.

No liver at all? Or just a lower frequency?

 

[Tarmander]

No liver at all? Or just a lower frequency?

None. The vitamin A man...

 

[tankasnowgod]

None. The vitamin A man...

So you're having success with Grant Generaux's idea?

 

[Arnold Grape]

Hello, everyone. I'm new to the forum but have been "Peating" for one year this month. I only say, "Peating" as a short hand. I understand Dr. Peat would not approve of some of the things I'm doing.

Firstly, right off the bat, as this is my first post, I would like to thank everybody on this forum that have shared their experiences and experiments. That information has been invaluable to me and has given me the wonderful experience of improving the health of myself and that of my immediate family. I honestly can't thank you guys enough.

I'm writing this mainly because I've had some interesting results that I don't see written about much here and like most people here, I loves the data, so I'm sharing it (some of it may sound unbelievable). My health improvements seem to come in a staircase fashion. I feel/see an improvement, which comes with some sort of "healing crisis." I'm not going to explain any of it so the post stays short.


Positives:

Acne gone
General skin health greatly improved
Hair loss completely stopped (Norwood 2)
Foamy urine is now a rare occurrence
Asthma is now nonexistent
Initial extreme improvement in energy and mental well-being
Improved visual awareness (this one actually causes me anxiety)
Social anxiety is very low
Rarely get sick, and when I do, it's very brief and light
Heavily cracked toenails have drastically improved
My 5 year-old son, who dropped from >90th% on the growth chart to <10th% (I blame myself for this), has shot up repeatedly month after month, eating constantly, and is now starting to resemble other boys his age

The "unbelievable" stuff (to me at least):
Surgically repaired inguinal hernia pain is gone (almost 20 years of daily pain)
Tibial anteversion (right foot only) has decreased from a 40 degree angle to 10 degrees
Several teeth with cavities at the gum line have filled in approx. 60%
Umbilical hernia (not repaired) vanished


Negatives (just to clarify, I am not attributing any of the following to Ray Peat in any way):

First month I had "lightning bolts" in my vision
A lot of large eye-floaters
Initial energy improvement seems to have turned into an utter lack of motivation
Constant low-grade anxiety
Gained 40 lbs. (can't seem to lose it either)
Adrenalin rushes (rare)
Palpatations (also rare)
Dissociation/derealization (this really freaks me out and happens almost daily, yet brief)
Twice now I have experienced Anorgasmia (I have never had a problem in this area before)
Slight ED
Libido is very low (again, never had this problem before)


Neutral-ish:

About 2 weeks ago I felt something different about the way I was using energy. Sounds weird but I just knew something was different. I decided to bag-breath. I stopped my timer 10:30, and I only stopped because I was getting nervous about the length of time. I normally get the panic signals at 1:30 and push through to 2:00.


That's all I can think of at the moment. I feel like I'm forgetting some things. I'm a 36 year-old male. Quick background is a history of horrible panic attacks and general anxiety disorder in my early 20's, followed by a few years of SSRIs, then 2 years of Paleo, then 3 years of Keto. Heavy exerciser the whole time (mostly cardio-type activities). This time last year I was in the best physical shape of my life (by appearances only), but like Haidut, I got a horrible sinus infection that just wouldn't go away even with several rounds of antibiotics. I just happened to be listening to that podcast at that time and the light bulb went off. I am doing quite a bit of the Peat-y things and taking a number of supplements talked about a lot here. Eating fruits, drinking OJ, milk, eating cheese, liver, oysters, etc. One thing I seem to do that is not talked about that often here, as far as I can see (correct me if I'm wrong), is make and eat my own marmalade.

Thanks again guys. Hopefully, someone will find this information helpful in their own health journey.

It would be cool to see some details on your diet. (General.) Congrats on feeling good.

 

[iPeat]

Thanks, Tank. I appreciate the advice. So, basically eating slightly less carbs, no starch, more saturated fat, and maybe less calories in general, accompanied by adequate Vitamin E might be a route to try and lose some excess weight? Honestly, I'm at my wit's end with the belly fat. I almost want to jump back on Keto and IF in as healthy a way as possible just to lose the gut. I've been in good shape my whole life and now I look pregnant (seriously). The only reason I was comfortable gaining so much, is because I was seeing such obvious improvements elsewhere and was willing to just go with it. I feel like as I heal, the more my body is revealing its weak links, so I'm willing to suffer through to get to the next hurdle (hopefully not too many more).

I thought for the last few months it was my liver (it still may be), so I recently put my coffee intake into Cronometer and it's telling me I'm having around 800mg (I drink around 80oz. per day. Maybe this is a problem). I feel absolutely nothing from coffee. Up until I found Peat, I only drank it out of habit. I may switch to caffeine tablets for some of my intake to take out any variables. Can I have a fatty liver while being able to handle large amounts of caffeine? I also take 15mg K2 daily (some topical, some oral). I'm thinking of doubling the dose. Initially even small amounts of K2 made me feel like crap.

Tarmander, a few days ago I stopped drinking milk and my gut already feels a little better. I've been drinking 1Q up to a half gallon (with sugar) per day for this entire year. Initially, strangely enough, I had absolutely no problems with it. It seems as I gain more weight, the more milk is bothering me.

Arnold, my diet has shifted a lot over the last year as I learn more (halfway through listening to all the KMUDs for a second time) and how I find things affect me. Up until my decision to drop the milk, my diet has generally been:
Coffee
Sugar
Eggs
Marmalade
Milk
OJ
Raw carrot
A lot of cheese (various kinds)
Mexican coke
Gummy bears,
Followed by a Peatish dinner. I have a family so generally the only guideline for dinner is no PUFA. Usually some form of meat with rice, potatoes, or GF pasta (my wife has Celiac and I haven't eaten it in years).
Liver or Liverwurst sporadically
Oysters also sporadically
(Writing this list has made me realize that when I started I was eating quite a bit more vegetables and have slowly removed them from my diet. Maybe something I should look into)

Supplements:
Thyroid (this has been an adventure trying to nail down)
Aspirin
Eggshell calcium
A,D,E,K, and some Bs
Gelatin sporadically
Some random minerals and amino acids (this varies a lot)

I was taking massive amounts of supplements per day before I started "Peating." Like an entire cabinet-full. I feel like one of the biggest improvements in my health came from stopping those and improving the quality of the ones I take now.

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks, Tank. I appreciate the advice. So, basically eating slightly less carbs, no starch, more saturated fat, and maybe less calories in general, accompanied by adequate Vitamin E might be a route to try and lose some excess weight? Honestly, I'm at my wit's end with the belly fat. I almost want to jump back on Keto and IF in as healthy a way as possible just to lose the gut. I've been in good shape my whole life and now I look pregnant (seriously). The only reason I was comfortable gaining so much, is because I was seeing such obvious improvements elsewhere and was willing to just go with it. I feel like as I heal, the more my body is revealing its weak links, so I'm willing to suffer through to get to the next hurdle (hopefully not too many more).

I thought for the last few months it was my liver (it still may be), so I recently put my coffee intake into Cronometer and it's telling me I'm having around 800mg (I drink around 80oz. per day. Maybe this is a problem). I feel absolutely nothing from coffee. Up until I found Peat, I only drank it out of habit. I may switch to caffeine tablets for some of my intake to take out any variables. Can I have a fatty liver while being able to handle large amounts of caffeine? I also take 15mg K2 daily (some topical, some oral). I'm thinking of doubling the dose. Initially even small amounts of K2 made me feel like crap.

Tarmander, a few days ago I stopped drinking milk and my gut already feels a little better. I've been drinking 1Q up to a half gallon (with sugar) per day for this entire year. Initially, strangely enough, I had absolutely no problems with it. It seems as I gain more weight, the more milk is bothering me.

Arnold, my diet has shifted a lot over the last year as I learn more (halfway through listening to all the KMUDs for a second time) and how I find things affect me. Up until my decision to drop the milk, my diet has generally been:
Coffee
Sugar
Eggs
Marmalade
Milk
OJ
Raw carrot
A lot of cheese (various kinds)
Mexican coke
Gummy bears,
Followed by a Peatish dinner. I have a family so generally the only guideline for dinner is no PUFA. Usually some form of meat with rice, potatoes, or GF pasta (my wife has Celiac and I haven't eaten it in years).
Liver or Liverwurst sporadically
Oysters also sporadically
(Writing this list has made me realize that when I started I was eating quite a bit more vegetables and have slowly removed them from my diet. Maybe something I should look into)

Supplements:
Thyroid (this has been an adventure trying to nail down)
Aspirin
Eggshell calcium
A,D,E,K, and some Bs
Gelatin sporadically
Some random minerals and amino acids (this varies a lot)

I was taking massive amounts of supplements per day before I started "Peating." Like an entire cabinet-full. I feel like one of the biggest improvements in my health came from stopping those and improving the quality of the ones I take now.

Yeah, that was me. As I gained more weight, I justified it because I was getting other improvements. But as time went on, the weight kept slowly creeping on. It never stopped and reversed like I assumed it would after my metabolism became better. My metabolism was actually getting worse overtime, and my body gaining weight was its way of telling me I was pushing it too much, and it was slowing it down in an effort to fight me.

I think now that the weight gain was from vitamin A, and if I had not had so much A in my diet, I would not have had the problems. Maybe I am wrong, but it looks that way. Ask me in a year and I will have a better answer. So from your list, the large sources of A are carrot, eggs, liver, OJ, cheese, and supplement A.

I would listen to the weight gain, because it really sucks in our society to be overweight. It will start to be a stress all on its own.

So you're having success with Grant Generaux's idea?

Yeah man, check out my log. Search Tarmander's autoimmune log

 

[alywest]

Thanks, Tank. I appreciate the advice. So, basically eating slightly less carbs, no starch, more saturated fat, and maybe less calories in general, accompanied by adequate Vitamin E might be a route to try and lose some excess weight? Honestly, I'm at my wit's end with the belly fat. I almost want to jump back on Keto and IF in as healthy a way as possible just to lose the gut. I've been in good shape my whole life and now I look pregnant (seriously). The only reason I was comfortable gaining so much, is because I was seeing such obvious improvements elsewhere and was willing to just go with it. I feel like as I heal, the more my body is revealing its weak links, so I'm willing to suffer through to get to the next hurdle (hopefully not too many more).

I thought for the last few months it was my liver (it still may be), so I recently put my coffee intake into Cronometer and it's telling me I'm having around 800mg (I drink around 80oz. per day. Maybe this is a problem). I feel absolutely nothing from coffee. Up until I found Peat, I only drank it out of habit. I may switch to caffeine tablets for some of my intake to take out any variables. Can I have a fatty liver while being able to handle large amounts of caffeine? I also take 15mg K2 daily (some topical, some oral). I'm thinking of doubling the dose. Initially even small amounts of K2 made me feel like crap.

Tarmander, a few days ago I stopped drinking milk and my gut already feels a little better. I've been drinking 1Q up to a half gallon (with sugar) per day for this entire year. Initially, strangely enough, I had absolutely no problems with it. It seems as I gain more weight, the more milk is bothering me.

Arnold, my diet has shifted a lot over the last year as I learn more (halfway through listening to all the KMUDs for a second time) and how I find things affect me. Up until my decision to drop the milk, my diet has generally been:
Coffee
Sugar
Eggs
Marmalade
Milk
OJ
Raw carrot
A lot of cheese (various kinds)
Mexican coke
Gummy bears,
Followed by a Peatish dinner. I have a family so generally the only guideline for dinner is no PUFA. Usually some form of meat with rice, potatoes, or GF pasta (my wife has Celiac and I haven't eaten it in years).
Liver or Liverwurst sporadically
Oysters also sporadically
(Writing this list has made me realize that when I started I was eating quite a bit more vegetables and have slowly removed them from my diet. Maybe something I should look into)

Supplements:
Thyroid (this has been an adventure trying to nail down)
Aspirin
Eggshell calcium
A,D,E,K, and some Bs
Gelatin sporadically
Some random minerals and amino acids (this varies a lot)

I was taking massive amounts of supplements per day before I started "Peating." Like an entire cabinet-full. I feel like one of the biggest improvements in my health came from stopping those and improving the quality of the ones I take now.

Have you ever considered cypro? Of the heptadine kind.

 

[iPeat]

Tarmander, I'm in the process of lowering my A at the moment. I stopped all supplementing besides the small-ish amount in Estroban. If it still doesn't help, I may lower my sources elsewhere too. I don't feel good after eating liver like quite a few people on here report. Quite the opposite: I get a lethargic and spacey feeling.

Alywest, thank you. Yes, I have tried up to 2mg. I haven't looked into increasing the dose beyond that, and no obvious reaction to it. I still use a few times a week before bed, just because of the data behind it. Something is definitely wrong with my gut. I just don't know what to try next. I've done the sulfur protocol twice and I'm still in the same boat. Just going to keep trying different things, I guess, until something gives.

 

[alywest]

Tarmander, I'm in the process of lowering my A at the moment. I stopped all supplementing besides the small-ish amount in Estroban. If it still doesn't help, I may lower my sources elsewhere too. I don't feel good after eating liver like quite a few people on here report. Quite the opposite: I get a lethargic and spacey feeling.

Alywest, thank you. Yes, I have tried up to 2mg. I haven't looked into increasing the dose beyond that, and no obvious reaction to it. I still use a few times a week before bed, just because of the data behind it. Something is definitely wrong with my gut. I just don't know what to try next. I've done the sulfur protocol twice and I'm still in the same boat. Just going to keep trying different things, I guess, until something gives.

Are you using the topical cypro or a pill? I found that the pills were much more noticeable in their effect for me. After a few days noticing that my learned helplessness wasn't as bad. I tend to think that all things like eye floaters, dissociative feelings, anxiety, sense of imbalance, are all related to serotonin. It was interesting to read recently Peat's observations about the connection between FFA's and serotonin, which higher doses of niacinamide are helpful for. Perhaps if vitamin A is giving you issues it would be worthwhile to supplement E, D and K2 as individual supplements so you don't have to increase your dose of A if you want more of any of those. I just posted a link on another thread about vitamin D deficiency and cavities. If your cavities have been healing then you're probably making progress with vitamin D status, but may need to continue with highish doses. Check this out :
Inflammation and vitamin D: the infection connection

 

[iPeat]

"This hypothesis proposes that low vitamin D is the consequence of a chronic inflammatory process caused by persistent infection. The bacterial pathogenesis theorizes that intracellular (cell wall deficient) bacteria invade nucleated cells, use strategies to avoid destruction and cause abnormal vitamin D endocrine function, resulting in low vitamin D."

This quote stuck out to me, Alywest. It might explain why I've been supplementing D for years but still showing signs of a healthy D level now that I'm healing my body from FFA real ease during Keto and IF. Thanks for this.

Regarding cypro; I use it in liquid form, drop it down the back of my throat, then chase it with OJ. I may start taking it daily for a bit and see how I feel.

 

[alywest]

"This hypothesis proposes that low vitamin D is the consequence of a chronic inflammatory process caused by persistent infection. The bacterial pathogenesis theorizes that intracellular (cell wall deficient) bacteria invade nucleated cells, use strategies to avoid destruction and cause abnormal vitamin D endocrine function, resulting in low vitamin D."

This quote stuck out to me, Alywest. It might explain why I've been supplementing D for years but still showing signs of a healthy D level now that I'm healing my body from FFA real ease during Keto and IF. Thanks for this.

Regarding cypro; I use it in liquid form, drop it down the back of my throat, then chase it with OJ. I may start taking it daily for a bit and see how I feel.

I noticed when I started taking cypro daily that one day I felt really "centered" in my body and could really feel the gravity of myself and my car when I was driving. It was a cool feeling, not uncomfortable or anxiety inducing. If anything it was the opposite, I think sometimes serotonin makes me feel outside of my body and even dizzy sort of. I don't really know how to describe it. More like the world is swaying under my feet or spinning around me. It's weird and that makes me anxious. But this Vitamin D article is so interesting, too, cuz it talks about how raising Vitamin D can actually backfire resulting in higher 1,25(OH)2D, and I looked back at some labs I had in May and the doctor actually measured both things (gasp!). Sure enough my 1,25 (OH)2D was high according to the article and my D status was about 31. But further down it says that maintaining that vitamin D level is a way to target the intracellular pathogenic bacteria. That, and taking an angiotensin II receptor antagonist like olmasartan which increases VDR and helps bring the bacteria out of the cells. Interestingly I was placed on Losartan a few months ago for hypertension and I have been avoiding taking it because of the bias against bp medications on this forum and elsewhere, but I'm going to try it again. It made me feel weird before but it said that it might make the bloodstream bacteria levels higher in the short run before they are eliminated from the body.

In patients with autoimmune disorders and inflammatory symptoms, olmesartan is noted to provoke an increase in inflammatory symptoms indicative of a Jarisch–Herxheimer reaction (JHR). JHR is a cascade of reactions including inflammation, cytokine release, and endotoxin release as part of the immune response to the disintegration of infected cells [172]. This immunopathology suggests transcription of AMPs by an activated VDR, points to the presence of occult infection and provides additional evidence that olmesartan is a VDR agonist [167, 173, 174]. Theoretically, olmesartan restores VDR competence and, thus, phagocytosis leads to bacterial death; consequently, inflammation is temporarily increased by cytokine reaction to microbial endotoxins and cellular debris from dead host cells and bacteria [175].

 

[iPeat]

You take cypro in the morning? I've always taken it about an hour before bed. Maybe I'll try taking it in the morning. It doesn't make me drowsy. Do you know the half-life off-hand (thinking of the safety of daily use long term)?

So, in your opinion, would supplementing larger than normal doses of D achieve a greater oppositional force to these intracelluar bacteria? Say, I don't know, 20,000 IU daily or something like that.

How long were you on the Losartan? Does it have any risks involved in its use?

 

[alywest]

You take cypro in the morning? I've always taken it about an hour before bed. Maybe I'll try taking it in the morning. It doesn't make me drowsy. Do you know the half-life off-hand (thinking of the safety of daily use long term)?

So, in your opinion, would supplementing larger than normal doses of D achieve a greater oppositional force to these intracelluar bacteria? Say, I don't know, 20,000 IU daily or something like that.

How long were you on the Losartan? Does it have any risks involved in its use?

I don't know about the D supplementing. I gathered that it really doesn't matter how much you supplement if you aren't processing the D correctly due to the bacterial pathogens. I have often wondered that because I live in a very sunny climate and would be spending hours a day outside in a bathing suit and still have really low D levels. I brought them up to slightly over 30 taking about 5,000IU a day. But I think it's really interesting about the 1,25 (OH)2D being high, and although mine was in the "normal" range, this article points out that 29 +/- 9.5 or something like that is really a normal value. So the combination of those two levels makes me think I am having low D readings not because of a lack of sunshine or supplementation. This reminds me of when I started taking T3 and suddenly my vitamin A levels increased without much supplementation. I had been eating lots of vitamin A rich foods for a long time and still had a deficiency, and then within two months of T3 my A levels were much better.

Losartan is a blood pressure med so if you don't have high blood pressure it could be a problem. But I'm actually not sure what the dose is to get the bacteria out of the cells. It's done by "restoring VDR competence" as the bacteria seem to be influencing the VDR to help with their survival. I took it for a couple of months and it did actually lower my blood pressure considerably.

 

[iPeat]

So I've really been sinking my teeth into vitamin D now, thanks to you. It sure seems like could be what's going on with me and it could be a serious stumbling block for a lot of people here.

The study you posted mentioned curcumin, so I think I'm going to start taking that along with 20,000 IU daily. Dr. Hollack mentions in one of his lectures that 20,000 is still within the upper ranges of safety. I'll post any results.

 

[Tarmander]

So I've really been sinking my teeth into vitamin D now, thanks to you. It sure seems like could be what's going on with me and it could be a serious stumbling block for a lot of people here.

The study you posted mentioned curcumin, so I think I'm going to start taking that along with 20,000 IU daily. Dr. Hollack mentions in one of his lectures that 20,000 is still within the upper ranges of safety. I'll post any results.

Hey I did the high vitamin D thing...20K Iu for a month or so. Basically gave me asthma that is slowly ever so slowly going away. The higher doses are no joke.

 

[iPeat]

Hey I did the high vitamin D thing...20K Iu for a month or so. Basically gave me asthma that is slowly ever so slowly going away. The higher doses are no joke.

Funny you mention asthma. I've had it since childhood and its gotten progressively better over time. One of my healing crises about 6 months after starting with a Peat-inspired diet was horrific asthma for about 2 weeks. I needed my inhaler 4 or 5 times a day (and I wait until I really need it). Before that I used it maybe once every 2 months, if that. I thought I read somewhere (maybe here) that the lungs are used in detoxification. Maybe that's what's going on. Another poor symptom as a result of improved bodily function?

 

[Tarmander]

Funny you mention asthma. I've had it since childhood and its gotten progressively better over time. One of my healing crises about 6 months after starting with a Peat-inspired diet was horrific asthma for about 2 weeks. I needed my inhaler 4 or 5 times a day (and I wait until I really need it). Before that I used it maybe once every 2 months, if that. I thought I read somewhere (maybe here) that the lungs are used in detoxification. Maybe that's what's going on. Another poor symptom as a result of improved bodily function?

A good heuristic I live by with this stuff: If you have a bad symptom and you think long term it may be something good happening to you, 98% of the time it is not. Long term 'feeling shitty' detoxing to get to the better toxin free heaven is a myth. Anytime there is a healing crisis, they are short lived and mildly uncomfortable. You are feeling better and better.

I never had asthma and vitamin D gave me a type of asthma that is hopefully short lived. Maybe it'll be the opposite for you. Some people have their asthma go away from vitamin D.