On The Back Of A Tiger - An Interview With The Filmmakers

[redred]

I’ve had a weird thought about this documentary that I’ve been thinking about for a while now.

Fred Kummerow spent nearly his entire professional life sounding the alarm about trans fats to no avail for 50 years.

Gilbert Ling spent his career defining and defending his position on the biology of the cell to a mainstream scientific community that wanted to hear none of it.

Dr. Persinger likewise was regularly called a quack by some peers and had his life’s work referred to as pseudoscience by critics and media.

My point being that everyone in this documentary seems to have in one way or another lived a life of ridicule or at the very least dismissal by the very community that should’ve been embracing their bold and creative approach to science.

Ray Peat’s work and it’s influences of course need no introduction. His ideas about health and the human organism have faced the same rejection by those claiming to seek scientific truth.

I am not a religious man, but I personally believe in an intentional universe, i believe each person is here for a reason. I also believe that you don’t leave this world until you’ve fulfilled that purpose, at least in some small way.

I think after a lifetime of rejection, finally having someone come to make a documentary about these ideas and to interview you and be willing to share your story alongside other great likeminded thinkers may have brought some peace to these men. Maybe that’s what they were waiting for, just to be heard. Not that they had never been heard before, but to have filmmakers come interview you, may have at least given them some comfort in knowing that their ideas would be further cemented for a new audience. Then maybe their “purpose” was somewhat fulfilled.

I know that all sounds kind of dramatic and morbid, but i thought it was worth sharing.

you are trying your best to rationalize this whole endevour, its was most likely just a scam or they will release it once they are all dead to ridicule their ideas

 

[Innergetic]

you are trying your best to rationalize this whole endevour, its was most likely just a scam or they will release it once they are all dead to ridicule their ideas

Not really, it was just a thought I had. I could definitely be wrong and I’m open to that.

Thank you for offering a kind and measured response in return.

 

[LUH 3417]

I’ve had a weird thought about this documentary that I’ve been thinking about for a while now.

Fred Kummerow spent nearly his entire professional life sounding the alarm about trans fats to no avail for 50 years.

Gilbert Ling spent his career defining and defending his position on the biology of the cell to a mainstream scientific community that wanted to hear none of it.

Dr. Persinger likewise was regularly called a quack by some peers and had his life’s work referred to as pseudoscience by critics and media.

My point being that everyone in this documentary seems to have in one way or another lived a life of ridicule or at the very least dismissal by the very community that should’ve been embracing their bold and creative approach to science.

Ray Peat’s work and it’s influences of course need no introduction. His ideas about health and the human organism have faced the same rejection by those claiming to seek scientific truth.

I am not a religious man, but I personally believe in an intentional universe, i believe each person is here for a reason. I also believe that you don’t leave this world until you’ve fulfilled that purpose, at least in some small way.

I think after a lifetime of rejection, finally having someone come to make a documentary about these ideas and to interview you and be willing to share your story alongside other great likeminded thinkers may have brought some peace to these men. Maybe that’s what they were waiting for, just to be heard. Not that they had never been heard before, but to have filmmakers come interview you, may have at least given them some comfort in knowing that their ideas would be further cemented for a new audience. Then maybe their “purpose” was somewhat fulfilled.

I know that all sounds kind of dramatic and morbid, but i thought it was worth sharing.

you are trying your best to rationalize this whole endevour, its was most likely just a scam or they will release it once they are all dead to ridicule their ideas

I don’t think that was rationalization. You hear lots of stories about people holding out until a loved one visits them or they can say their last words in a meaningful way. I always wondered about people who died near or around their birthdays.

 

[Lollipop2]

I’ve had a weird thought about this documentary that I’ve been thinking about for a while now.

Fred Kummerow spent nearly his entire professional life sounding the alarm about trans fats to no avail for 50 years.

Gilbert Ling spent his career defining and defending his position on the biology of the cell to a mainstream scientific community that wanted to hear none of it.

Dr. Persinger likewise was regularly called a quack by some peers and had his life’s work referred to as pseudoscience by critics and media.

My point being that everyone in this documentary seems to have in one way or another lived a life of ridicule or at the very least dismissal by the very community that should’ve been embracing their bold and creative approach to science.

Ray Peat’s work and it’s influences of course need no introduction. His ideas about health and the human organism have faced the same rejection by those claiming to seek scientific truth.

I am not a religious man, but I personally believe in an intentional universe, i believe each person is here for a reason. I also believe that you don’t leave this world until you’ve fulfilled that purpose, at least in some small way.

I think after a lifetime of rejection, finally having someone come to make a documentary about these ideas and to interview you and be willing to share your story alongside other great likeminded thinkers may have brought some peace to these men. Maybe that’s what they were waiting for, just to be heard. Not that they had never been heard before, but to have filmmakers come interview you, may have at least given them some comfort in knowing that their ideas would be further cemented for a new audience. Then maybe their “purpose” was somewhat fulfilled.

I know that all sounds kind of dramatic and morbid, but i thought it was worth sharing.

This sounds totally reasonable. Potential bias: It is in line with how I think

Thanks for being willing to bring this thought forward.

 

[redred]

Not really, it was just a thought I had. I could definitely be wrong and I’m open to that.

Thank you for offering a kind and measured response in return.

I just see excuses for their inexcusable behaviour

 

[Innergetic]

I just see excuses for their inexcusable behaviour

I’ve definitely been equally displeased with how they’ve handled this project and their backers. My comment wasn’t a defense of the filmmakers so much as it was just my philosophical opinions on the oddity of having so many of the interviewee’s pass away.

 

[boris]

I’ve had a weird thought about this documentary that I’ve been thinking about for a while now.

Fred Kummerow spent nearly his entire professional life sounding the alarm about trans fats to no avail for 50 years.

Gilbert Ling spent his career defining and defending his position on the biology of the cell to a mainstream scientific community that wanted to hear none of it.

Dr. Persinger likewise was regularly called a quack by some peers and had his life’s work referred to as pseudoscience by critics and media.

My point being that everyone in this documentary seems to have in one way or another lived a life of ridicule or at the very least dismissal by the very community that should’ve been embracing their bold and creative approach to science.

Ray Peat’s work and it’s influences of course need no introduction. His ideas about health and the human organism have faced the same rejection by those claiming to seek scientific truth.

I am not a religious man, but I personally believe in an intentional universe, i believe each person is here for a reason. I also believe that you don’t leave this world until you’ve fulfilled that purpose, at least in some small way.

I think after a lifetime of rejection, finally having someone come to make a documentary about these ideas and to interview you and be willing to share your story alongside other great likeminded thinkers may have brought some peace to these men. Maybe that’s what they were waiting for, just to be heard. Not that they had never been heard before, but to have filmmakers come interview you, may have at least given them some comfort in knowing that their ideas would be further cemented for a new audience. Then maybe their “purpose” was somewhat fulfilled.

I know that all sounds kind of dramatic and morbid, but i thought it was worth sharing.

@Nick Nieves Interesting thought.

I had a different one when I read it: Waiting for something while not being shure that it will arrive or take place, probably depending on how you handle this matter in your mind, can be quite a negatively stressful state. Taking into consideration that for many decades people didn't take them seriously and didn't pay much attention to them I can imagine it occupied a significant space of their subconscious and could have been a big enough stressor to accelerate aging.

Anyways, it was just a thought. Of course I know nothing about their personal lifes and thoughts.
I appreciate their life work and appreciate the filmmakers intent to bring these topics to more people.

 

[InChristAlone]

Someone in the FB group said they pledged $200 and haven't received anything. On kickstarter it says you get a skype conversation with them. There were multiple people who pledged over 1,oo0 bucks. It's crazy how much faith we had in them to make a film and now we're only getting a series that will be for free.. basically a side project.

 

[lampofred]

I’ve had a weird thought about this documentary that I’ve been thinking about for a while now.

Fred Kummerow spent nearly his entire professional life sounding the alarm about trans fats to no avail for 50 years.

Gilbert Ling spent his career defining and defending his position on the biology of the cell to a mainstream scientific community that wanted to hear none of it.

Dr. Persinger likewise was regularly called a quack by some peers and had his life’s work referred to as pseudoscience by critics and media.

My point being that everyone in this documentary seems to have in one way or another lived a life of ridicule or at the very least dismissal by the very community that should’ve been embracing their bold and creative approach to science.

Ray Peat’s work and it’s influences of course need no introduction. His ideas about health and the human organism have faced the same rejection by those claiming to seek scientific truth.

I am not a religious man, but I personally believe in an intentional universe, i believe each person is here for a reason. I also believe that you don’t leave this world until you’ve fulfilled that purpose, at least in some small way.

I think after a lifetime of rejection, finally having someone come to make a documentary about these ideas and to interview you and be willing to share your story alongside other great likeminded thinkers may have brought some peace to these men. Maybe that’s what they were waiting for, just to be heard. Not that they had never been heard before, but to have filmmakers come interview you, may have at least given them some comfort in knowing that their ideas would be further cemented for a new audience. Then maybe their “purpose” was somewhat fulfilled.

I know that all sounds kind of dramatic and morbid, but i thought it was worth sharing.

Not saying you're wrong but if these scientists really cared that much about validation and being accepted, wouldn't they have found a different line of work long ago? People like Ray Peat stand out to me because they care more about truth and doing what they think is right than about what others think of them.

I don't mean to imply there was any conspiracy. The most boring and rational explanation (coincidence) is usually the right one. But it is just natural to be a bit surprised when 5/7 interviewees suddenly die.

 

[Gone Peating]

Not really, it was just a thought I had. I could definitely be wrong and I’m open to that.

Thank you for offering a kind and measured response in return.

I don’t think anything you said was unreasonable.

And yes everything in the universe quite literally does have a purpose. The more we are able to study the universe at its smallest scale from the cellular to the atomic level the more purposeful it all seems.

It’s amazing how unchaotic the universe is

 

[mangoes]

It’s messed up that they’ve taken this long for them to just turn around and put it out in “episode format” after all this time, when over half of the subjects have died in the extremely long time elapsed and they’re just gonna cut it into short segments anyway lol

they need to hurry up and release it so the remaining people alive can get some exposure at least whilst they’re still able to discuss and defend their ideas to the naysayers

it’s bs that people get recognised for their contribution to knowledge years and years after they’ve died and never got to experience being acknowledged on a wide scale

 

[Kartoffel]

it’s bs that people get recognised for their contribution to knowledge years and years after they’ve died and never got to experience the feeling of being acknowledged on a wide scale

You can also see it another way: Without their project they would get no exposure, whatsoever. You can criticize how they handled the project, and that they didn't keep some of the promises they made, or that they stopped communicating with their supporters, for a long time. However, if it wasn't for their project and their efforts, these people wouldn't have gotten any chance to present their ideas on such a format.

 

[Tarmander]

These people are all in their 70s and 80s...or 90s....not that weird that they died.

 

[Innergetic]

These people are all in their 70s and 80s...or 90s....not that weird that they died.

I don't mean to imply there was any conspiracy. The most boring and rational explanation (coincidence) is usually the right one.

Agreed, simplest explanation is the correct one. I was just tossing out random philosophical musings.

 

[Waynish]

Dr Ling has passed according to them.

Oh! Have a link? I couldn't find the obituary.

EDIT: OK, I found the Dec 13th On the Back of a Tiger Facebook Post:
"... We must also share that Gilbert passed recently, just a few weeks shy of 100 years of age..."
Supporting info for Ling's death

Updated List:
Deceased interviewees:
Dr. Michael Persinger - Died: August 14, 2018 -- Interviewed in Sudbury on July 10th, 2014 (age: 74)
Harold Hillman - Died: August 5, 2016 -- Interviewed in London on April 15th, 2014 (age: 85)
Dr Mae-Wan Ho - Died: March 24, 2016 -- Interviewed in London on April 16th, 2014 (age: 74)
Dr. Fred A. Kummerow - Died: May 31, 2017 -- Interviewed in Urbana on August 20th, 2014 (age: 102)
Gilbert N. Ling - Died: ??? -- Interviewed in Philadelphia on June 19th, 2014 (age: 99)

Living interviewees:
Gerald Pollack - Interviewed in Seattle on May 21st, 2014 (age: ?)
Raymond Peat - Interviewed in Eugene on October 8th, 2014 (age: 83)

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Pollack got his BS in 1961. If he was the normative age of 22 when receiving a bachelor's degree, he would have been born 1939. That would make him 80 in 2019. Presumably.

According to Wikipedia, Ling died November 10th, 2019.

While we're collating information, let's list the "secondary cadre" of interviewees.

Bernardo Kastrup (Veldhoven, Netherlands)
Amanda Jane Wood (Stuttgart, Germany)
Matthias Nelke/Matthias Nägele (Stuttgart, Germany)
Gershom Zajicek (Stuttgart, Germany)
Denis Noble (London, England)
Benedicte Mai Lerche (Copenhagen, Denmark)
Kate Deering (San Diego, CA)
Alex Tsakaris (San Diego, CA)
George Slavich (Los Angeles, CA)

 

[jdherk]

The interviewees are being offed one by one ????
Is that what we are thinking.

 

[charlie]

The first episode is out! See link below:

On The Back Of A Tiger: Episode One, Gilbert Ling

 

[Peatogenic]

It's not unheard of for documentaries to take decades to make..

 

[Wagner83]

Danny Roddy #25: What Happened to The On The Back of a Tiger Documentary feeaturing Ray Peat, Gilbert Ling etc...