Omega-3 Fatty Acids Inhibit NLRP3

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
Omega-3 fatty acids prevent inflammation and metabolic disorder through inhibition of NLRP3 inflammasome activation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23809162

NLRP3 activates the proinflammatory cytokine IL-1, and also activates caspase-1, this results in the progression of many (most?) diseases. Cholesterol crystals activate NLRP3 when they are oxidized (estrogen probably plays a role in this, as well as other forms of stress).

Example of NLRP3 in disease :
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va ... bal=remove

"Nlrp3−/− or Casp1−/− mice carrying mutations associated with familial Alzheimer’s disease were largely protected from loss of spatial memory and other sequelae associated with Alzheimer’s disease, and demonstrated reduced brain caspase-1 and interleukin-1β activation as well as enhanced amyloid-β clearance."

I think if you're gonna eat 4g of Pufas, it might as well be Omega-3's (and using Vit E/aspirin would probably prevent prostaglandin production).

The additional strategy is to increase the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10, which downregulates NLRP3. Pregnenolone/Dhea/Progesterone, adiponectin, testosterone, Hdac inhibitors, Butyrate, ethanol (also inhibit NLRP3), sun light, exercise, Cayenne pepper, Nad+, cAMP, increase IL-10.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,370
So you can end up with a time bomb instead of a brain?
 

natedawggh

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
649
Elephanto said:
Omega-3 fatty acids prevent inflammation and metabolic disorder through inhibition of NLRP3 inflammasome activation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23809162

NLRP3 activates the proinflammatory cytokine IL-1, and also activates caspase-1, this results in the progression of many (most?) diseases. Cholesterol crystals activate NLRP3 when they are oxidized (estrogen probably plays a role in this, as well as other forms of stress).

Example of NLRP3 in disease :
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va ... bal=remove

"Nlrp3−/− or Casp1−/− mice carrying mutations associated with familial Alzheimer’s disease were largely protected from loss of spatial memory and other sequelae associated with Alzheimer’s disease, and demonstrated reduced brain caspase-1 and interleukin-1β activation as well as enhanced amyloid-β clearance."

I think if you're gonna eat 4g of Pufas, it might as well be Omega-3's (and using Vit E/aspirin would probably prevent prostaglandin production).

The additional strategy is to increase the anti-inflammatory cytokine IL-10, which downregulates NLRP3. Pregnenolone/Dhea/Progesterone, adiponectin, testosterone, Hdac inhibitors, Butyrate, ethanol (also inhibit NLRP3), sun light, exercise, Cayenne pepper, Nad+, cAMP, increase IL-10.

"Omega-3 fatty acids (ω-3 FAs) have potential anti-inflammatory activity in a variety of inflammatory human diseases, but the mechanisms remain poorly understood"

That's the first line of this study. It is not an explorative study but a model of how they propose it may work. But it doesn't work, and it's toxic, and if it did prevent inflammation and metabolic disorder I would not have contracted metabolic disorder 3 years ago from taking a giant tub of fish oil as prescribed by my naturopath. I went from 235 lbs, with a full head of hair and a mild thyroid condition to 300 lbs, hair loss, thyroid disease, fatty liver disease and severe insomnia and depression.

They keep trying to make omega 3's work but they just don't. It's safer to not have them and not experience the "benefits" than to take them and experience the damaging effects.
 

jyb

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
2,783
Location
UK
natedawggh said:
That's the first line of this study. It is not an explorative study but a model of how they propose it may work. But it doesn't work, and it's toxic, and if it did prevent inflammation and metabolic disorder I would not have contracted metabolic disorder 3 years ago from taking a giant tub of fish oil as prescribed by my naturopath. I went from 235 lbs, with a full head of hair and a mild thyroid condition to 300 lbs, hair loss, thyroid disease, fatty liver disease and severe insomnia and depression.

A tub of fish oil would mean you were running your metabolism (for a short time) off PUFA oil. Just like many people do when they go eat fried food. This is a totally different situation than when you take at most a few grams of fish oil in a capsule. In the former you are using it as energy, in the latter you are using it for some special function a bit like a vitamin (in theory). Of course Ray says in all cases this is toxic. But to reject a study this nuance is important: studies about omega3 benefits do not necessarily claim it is a good thing to run your metabolism primarily off them as fuel.
 

jyb

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
2,783
Location
UK
Elephanto said:
I think if you're gonna eat 4g of Pufas, it might as well be Omega-3's (and using Vit E/aspirin would probably prevent prostaglandin production).

What about CLA though? If you drink quality dairy, a lot of the PUFA is in fact just CLA. If you want more omega3/6, drink the more commercial milk.

Ray:
Even the trans-isomers of the unsaturated fatty acids (found in butterfat, and convertible into conjugated linoleic acid) can be protective against cancer.
 

natedawggh

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
649
jyb said:
natedawggh said:
That's the first line of this study. It is not an explorative study but a model of how they propose it may work. But it doesn't work, and it's toxic, and if it did prevent inflammation and metabolic disorder I would not have contracted metabolic disorder 3 years ago from taking a giant tub of fish oil as prescribed by my naturopath. I went from 235 lbs, with a full head of hair and a mild thyroid condition to 300 lbs, hair loss, thyroid disease, fatty liver disease and severe insomnia and depression.

A tub of fish oil would mean you were running your metabolism (for a short time) off PUFA oil. Just like many people do when they go eat fried food. This is a totally different situation than when you take at most a few grams of fish oil in a capsule. In the former you are using it as energy, in the latter you are using it for some special function a bit like a vitamin (in theory). Of course Ray says in all cases this is toxic. But to reject a study this nuance is important: studies about omega3 benefits do not necessarily claim it is a good thing to run your metabolism primarily off them as fuel.

It sounds like you're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time that omega's are toxic? I'm not really sure what you're saying. I would just steer clear of omega 3s all together instead of trying to parse semantics.
 
OP
E

Elephanto

Member
Joined
May 21, 2015
Messages
820
Oxidized fish oil is pretty bad for your health but I think some unoxidized Omega 3's could have some benefits. It seems like Peat doesn't think as low as 4g is harmful? Omega 6's don't inhibit NLRP3 so if 4g is okay, eliminating them completely and taking some Krill oil (less oxidization because of astaxanthin) could be good if it does inhibit NLRP3 potently.

Also, you draw unnecessary conclusions on the nature of the study, most studies begin with a sentence like that. They found that it inhibits NLRP3.
 

jyb

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
2,783
Location
UK
natedawggh said:
It sounds like you're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time that omega's are toxic? I'm not really sure what you're saying. I would just steer clear of omega 3s all together instead of trying to parse semantics.

No, this was not the point of my post. I'm afraid I don't see how to make it clearer.
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Elephanto said:
Omega 6's don't inhibit NLRP3 so if 4g is okay, eliminating them completely and taking some Krill oil (less oxidization because of astaxanthin) could be good if it does inhibit NLRP3 potently.

I will echo nate's experience.
In my paleo days I was taking exactly that expensive Krill oil,
the freshest I could find.
A lot of it.
Of course, I was doing the whole Mercola. low-carb thing.

And my health suffered badly, like nate's.
This is not a very scientific way of rebutting anything in the study.
Just anecdotal, for what it's worth.

Peat has said--I think I have this right--
that when it comes to the harmfulness of the n-3's vs the n-6's,
probably advantage (danger) goes usually to the n-6's.
Peat's reasoning there is that he says the n-3's are usually so perishable
and, in fact, perished when consumed,
that that actually keeps them from being more harmful--
that is, they would be more harmful if they were fresher and less oxidized.

So those supposedly exquisitely fresh Krill Oil supps nate and I downed
might've been the most poisonous n-3's we could've taken.

Oh, I left out another part of what Peat said:
I think he's said that those already perished n-3's
would contain mostly what he called "breakdown products" of n-3.
And, while harmful in the long run,
those breakdown products might sortuv irritate the body's responses
in such a way as to provide a short-term anti-inflammatory effect--
similar, he said, to the way radiation provides a short-term anti-inflammatory response,
and was indeed used that way back in...what?...the '50's?....
 

Dutchie

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,413
narouz said:
Elephanto said:
Omega 6's don't inhibit NLRP3 so if 4g is okay, eliminating them completely and taking some Krill oil (less oxidization because of astaxanthin) could be good if it does inhibit NLRP3 potently.

I will echo nate's experience.
In my paleo days I was taking exactly that expensive Krill oil,
the freshest I could find.
A lot of it.
Of course, I was doing the whole Mercola. low-carb thing.

And my health suffered badly, like nate's.
This is not a very scientific way of rebutting anything in the study.
Just anecdotal, for what it's worth.

Peat has said--I think I have this right--
that when it comes to the harmfulness of the n-3's vs the n-6's,
probably advantage (danger) goes usually to the n-6's.
Peat's reasoning there is that he says the n-3's are usually so perishable
and, in fact, perished when consumed,
that that actually keeps them from being more harmful--
that is, they would be more harmful if they were fresher and less oxidized.

So those supposedly exquisitely fresh Krill Oil supps nate and I downed
might've been the most poisonous n-3's we could've taken.

Oh, I left out another part of what Peat said:
I think he's said that those already perished n-3's
would contain mostly what he called "breakdown products" of n-3.
And, while harmful in the long run,
those breakdown products might sortuv irritate the body's responses
in such a way as to provide a short-term anti-inflammatory effect--
similar, he said, to the way radiation provides a short-term anti-inflammatory response,
and was indeed used that way back in...what?...the '50's?....

I think the keyword here is Krill Oil Supplements.
It's always supplements they talk about.

What about eating some actual fatty fish,I can't imagine it migth have that same disastrous negative effect that supplements migth have.
 

dd99

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
434
Yes, I second Dutchie's question. What does this mean for fatty fish like salmon? (The wild salmon fillets I can find here in the UK are quite lean anyway...)
 

XPlus

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
556
I think I heard Ray in one of the interviews say something along the lines of that even if the PUFA in fish isn't oxidised at the time it's eaten, it would oxidise very quickly inside the body where oxygen concentration and temperature are high.

So it comes down to basic biochemistry no matter what form the PUFA comes in: nuts, seeds, fish, capsule, pressed oils, solvent-extracted oils, etc.

Farmed Norwagian salmon isn't of a quality I'd eat regardless of fat composition.
 

natedawggh

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
649
jyb said:
natedawggh said:
It sounds like you're agreeing and disagreeing at the same time that omega's are toxic? I'm not really sure what you're saying. I would just steer clear of omega 3s all together instead of trying to parse semantics.

No, this was not the point of my post. I'm afraid I don't see how to make it clearer.

It's okay. I appreciate your effort. It would be great if all studies aligned with our own experiences... would make it much easier!
 

Blinkyrocket

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
474
Age
27
This may be simplistic because I did t read the study and also don't know whatever it is omega-3s inhibit but I know that "whatever gives the most and takes away the least" is the best food, EFA deficiency causes symptoms of B6 deficiency, that is a BAD thing, but it is a bad thing that- when solved- will result in even better health than before. The way I see it, PUFA is a factor in death (maybe the only one, well iron too) so death is natural, sure, doesn't mean we can't try out lowering PUFA intake and seeing what happens. Because we're born into a harsh environment we have to slowly kill ourselves to survive...

Don't tell me I'm wrong if I am because I thought that was kinda poetic somehow.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Elephanto said:
Oxidized fish oil is pretty bad for your health but I think some unoxidized Omega 3's could have some benefits. It seems like Peat doesn't think as low as 4g is harmful? Omega 6's don't inhibit NLRP3 so if 4g is okay, eliminating them completely and taking some Krill oil (less oxidization because of astaxanthin) could be good if it does inhibit NLRP3 potently.

Also, you draw unnecessary conclusions on the nature of the study, most studies begin with a sentence like that. They found that it inhibits NLRP3.

How were you thinking of eliminating them completely? Not easy, if you are eating actual food. I read Peat as saying it would be beneficial to eat less PUFA than 4g - the lower the better - if it were practical to do so.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
XPlus said:
I think I heard Ray in one of the interviews say something along the lines of that even if the PUFA in fish isn't oxidised at the time it's eaten, it would oxidise very quickly inside the body where oxygen concentration and temperature are high.
That's my recollection too.
 

tyw

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2015
Messages
407
Location
Cairns, Australia
I think I heard Ray in one of the interviews say something along the lines of that even if the PUFA in fish isn't oxidised at the time it's eaten, it would oxidise very quickly inside the body where oxygen concentration and temperature are high.

So it comes down to basic biochemistry no matter what form the PUFA comes in: nuts, seeds, fish, capsule, pressed oils, solvent-extracted oils, etc.

Farmed Norwagian salmon isn't of a quality I'd eat regardless of fat composition.

That's my recollection too.

To resurrect an older thread, I did find a study a couple months ago attempting to measure DHA oxidation under physiologic conditions -- Alterations in the Intestinal Assimilation of Oxidized PUFAs Are Ameliorated by a Polyphenol-Rich Grape Seed Extract in an In Vitro Model and Caco-2 Cells

About 10% oxidised from fresh mullet meat (which is a pretty lean fish).

Is this bad? Definitely.

Is this enough to cause issues? Depends on how good your metabolism is ;)

Can we assume more oxidation with fatty fish? Probably.
What about interactions with different "pro-oxidative" foods? Unknown.

....
 

tyw

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2015
Messages
407
Location
Cairns, Australia
I actually agree with Peat's position that "Omega-3s suppress the immune system".

The acute elevation of Inflammatory markers is likely a signal to the rest of the body to "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS NONSENSE". ie: I feel the markers are mere signals, and not the cause of inflammatory themselves.

I really need to finish writing my DHA article some time :penguin: , but the sections:

- Isoprostanes and Neuroprostanes
- Neuroprostanes Mis-interpreted as Being "Good"
- NF-κB Considered Useful
- DHA and Immune Function in the Gut, with a discussion of generic mechanisms

Basically explain my perspective on why an acute inflammatory response is exactly what you need to respond to a stressor.

LINK -- Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)


In this sense, I am in agreement with Haidut's view of "autoimmunity as chronic inflammation", instead of blaming particular markers (like antibodies)

(Link to said Podcast -- #12: A Bioenergetic View of Autoimmunity)



....
 

lvysaur

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
2,286
So those supposedly exquisitely fresh Krill Oil supps nate and I downed
might've been the most poisonous n-3's we could've taken.
Old post but yes. I suffered extensively from Krill Oil (not fish) back in 2012. It gave me lipofuscin and rapid hairloss. I was 20.
I never noticed any such lipofuscin deposits from eating fish--and I used to eat salmon often as a teenager.

The Krill Oil I was using was VERY high quality, much more astaxanthin than the omega-red stuff you see on TV. The brand was "Red Whale Krill Oil".
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom