Okay Now This Is Depressing (my Varicocele Shrunk After Taking A Supplement)

[TreasureVibe]

Hey all. So this is very depressing. A week ago I decided to take IP6 Gold which contains IP6 and Inositol, to see if it could make me feel better. I overall felt like sh*t. So I took it, and the same day I started feeling very good and even my mood was improving too. I felt all sorts of tinglings in my body, and even my varicocele shrunk to a normal size! I took it for 3 days. An infectious/inflammatory feeling in the lung also cleared and I was able to breathe better. My immune system got a big boost. I could also smell things better again and discern smells from eachother. My urine also came out in a good volume again after 3 years. I just felt so awesome bodily wise, but then I decided I would quit because I was afraid it could cause anemia because IP6 is an iron chelator. I waited for about 7 days and the varicocele slowly but steady creeped back to a thicker size, and the congestion in my lung came back along with that infectious/inflammatory feeling.

Now today I started the IP6 Gold capsules again, but I don't feel the same benefits I had yet and I am afraid that for some reason they won't come back. This just makes me depressed as hell! I don't recall exactly on which day of the 3 days I started noticing the varicocele shrinking, so it might still happen as this is day 1 of me taking it to put a nuance to my story.

Yet still I am afraid I should've kept taking it, and now the benefits won't come back anymore.. Could anyone give me some sanity and talk some sense into me?

 

[Blossom]

It's great that IP6 gold worked so well for you. I wouldn't get discouraged.

I understand your worry but in my experience it only makes things worse. I should have an honorary doctorate in health anxiety by now I've worried myself so much and needlessly in the past.

Have you had significant problems with anemia before? Peat wrote a good article and if you haven't read it I think it might be helpful.
Iron's Dangers

 

[TreasureVibe]

It's great that IP6 gold worked so well for you. I wouldn't get discouraged.

I understand your worry but in my experience it only makes things worse. I should have an honorary doctorate in health anxiety by now I've worried myself so much and needlessly in the past.

Have you had significant problems with anemia before? Peat wrote a good article and if you haven't read it I think it might be helpful.
Iron's Dangers

I never have perceived any problems with anemia before. It is that IP6 is known as an iron chelator why I worry. Also according to @Travis a by-product by IP6 and Inositol called IP3 can strongly chelate calcium, which is also a possible reason for me to worry about its use. I myself doubt however if it truly chelates calcium.. Theoretically if IP6 + Inositol caused problems due to calcium chelation you would've heard about it, although I am unsure and doubtful. Actual calcium chelation can be deadly, as seen with an incident with the use of EDTA where a child sadly died due to hypocalcemia. I worry alot about things like these.

 

[Blossom]

I know it's hard when you've had numerous health challenges and difficulty finding solutions. I felt a bit that way when I first came to this forum and Peat's work but now I can say I feel confident in my ability to heal and figure out my own issues that crop up with minimal mental distress. Each success builds your trust and confidence in yourself and the healing process.

If there is one thing I think is important it's to Try not to discard the good in search of the perfect when it comes to your health. No treatment period is ever without risk imo (even diet change) and there are so many variables to each person and situation that it's hard to control everything 100%. Just stay mindful of what's happening while you try things out but still enjoy your life and expand your experience beyond health stuff if you can manage it.
Best to you @TreasureVibe.

 

[SOMO]

Did you masturbate after your varicocele shrunk?

Pretty sure masturbation can make it worse.

 

[TreasureVibe]

I know it's hard when you've had numerous health challenges and difficulty finding solutions. I felt a bit that way when I first came to this forum and Peat's work but now I can say I feel confident in my ability to heal and figure out my own issues that crop up with minimal mental distress. Each success builds your trust and confidence in yourself and the healing process.

If there is one thing I think is important it's to Try not to discard the good in search of the perfect when it comes to your health. No treatment period is ever without risk imo (even diet change) and there are so many variables to each person and situation that it's hard to control everything 100%. Just stay mindful of what's happening while you try things out but still enjoy your life and expand your experience beyond health stuff if you can manage it.
Best to you @TreasureVibe.

Thanks for your support! I have actually e-mailed IP-6 Research and received a comforting reply that everything is okay when it comes to safety of higher doses. So I will continue using it for now to see if its effects are positive, with higher doses. It is just that the incentives that drive you to try a supplement are so valuable to you, that if you don't follow up on them, you find yourself dissapointed and perhaps even in distress as you feel as if ''the one time opportunity'' has ceased. Biochemically, this could be possible as well. And that gives alot of doubt and anxiety. Especially when it makes you feel so good for a while, as if you have temporarily found your old life back.

Did you masturbate after your varicocele shrunk?

Pretty sure masturbation can make it worse.

Nope! I am actually theorizing that prostate size is related to pressure output of the vein, as there is a study that could suggest this somewhat:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1439-0272.2008.00883.x

Picture from that study.

The hypothesis behind BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia, simply prostate enlargement in layman's terms) being caused by a varicocele and corresponding fluid dynamics of the veins down there are the work of Dr. Gat and Dr. Goren who have made a special non conventional surgical technique to fix a varicocele called the Gat Goren Method. Dr. Gat is also an engineer and has used his experiences as an engineer to study varicoceles.

Here you can read some information on him:

https://www.rbmojournal.com/article/S1472-6483(10)60638-4/pdf

And this is his clinic's website for patients:

Gat Goren Method for treatment of enlarged prostate gland (BPH)

The fact that my urinary output flow improved while having used the IP6+inositol suggests that the prostate was decreasing in size. This could technically mean that a varicocele in my case in part is caused by an enlarged prostate. The vice versa theory has been proven in numerous studies already, that varicocele can cause an enlarged prostate, due to blood rich in hormones, namely testosterone, flowing back to the prostate.

Although Dr. Gat and Dr. Goren show an interesting new angle of approach in the varicocele, it is only a limited approach but does give the condition a whole new dimension of perspective. They lay emphasis on cases of veinous valves being damaged, which happens primarily in older men. Although this also is known to cause varicocele, it is not believed to be the cause of all varicoceles, especially in young men where such vascular complications are rare.

What's more interesting, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu had the Gat Goren procedure done for his BPH:

How Israel's Prime Minister treated his prostate problem without surgery

 

[Blossom]

Thanks for your support! I have actually e-mailed IP-6 Research and received a comforting reply that everything is okay when it comes to safety of higher doses. So I will continue using it for now to see if its effects are positive, with higher doses. It is just that the incentives that drive you to try a supplement are so valuable to you, that if you don't follow up on them, you find yourself dissapointed and perhaps even in distress as you feel as if ''the one time opportunity'' has ceased. Biochemically, this could be possible as well. And that gives alot of doubt and anxiety. Especially when it makes you feel so good for a while, as if you have temporarily found your old life back.

That's wonderful. If the email exchange was with Peat would you mind putting it in the email depository?

 

[TreasureVibe]

That's wonderful. If the email exchange was with Peat would you mind putting it in the email depository?

It was with the people behind IP-6.net! But I have other e-mail exchanges with Ray Peat which I will put into the email depository now that I've come to think of it.

 

[Blossom]

It was with the people behind IP-6.net! But I have other e-mail exchanges with Ray Peat which I will put into the email depository now that I've come to think of it.

Thanks! You're very dedicated and thorough in your research. I feel like you will overcome these challenges. You definitely do not have learned helplessness either so that's another advantage.

 

[SOMO]

The fact that my urinary output flow improved while having used the IP6+inositol suggests that the prostate was decreasing in size. This could technically mean that a varicocele in my case in part is caused by an enlarged prostate. The vice versa theory has been proven in numerous studies already, that varicocele can cause an enlarged prostate, due to blood rich in hormones, namely testosterone, flowing back to the prostate.

Why do you think it was the IP6 that shrunk your varicocele?

You weren't taking ANY other supplements at the time or doing any other targeted therapy towards your prostate/varicocele? In other words, how were you able to separate the many factors that could contribute to BPH or a varicocele and conclude that it was the IP6 that was helping?

 

[TreasureVibe]

Why do you think it was the IP6 that shrunk your varicocele?

You weren't taking ANY other supplements at the time or doing any other targeted therapy towards your prostate/varicocele? In other words, how were you able to separate the many factors that could contribute to BPH or a varicocele and conclude that it was the IP6 that was helping?

I wasn't taking anything else. Not one supplement I have taken so far produced the effects IP6+inositol had on my varicocele, and in such a direct fashion. The vein felt drained and there was a sense of relief in the area. The vein literally just felt drained. Vitamin E in high doses is also able to decrease the size of my varicocele, albeit for short periods, but it doesn't produce this sense of draining, the vein along with the area would still feel bloated, like blood was still stagnant. I'm talking about physical draining, like a pump pumped out the excessive blood. It could be my imagination but only vitamin E in high doses so far came close to such an effect and yet IP6's effect was greater than that of vitamin E in my opinion.

 

[SOMO]

I wasn't taking anything else. Not one supplement I have taken so far produced the effects IP6+inositol had on my varicocele, and in such a direct fashion. The vein felt drained and there was a sense of relief in the area. The vein literally just felt drained. Vitamin E in high doses is also able to decrease the size of my varicocele, albeit for short periods, but it doesn't produce this sense of draining, the vein along with the area would still feel bloated, like blood was still stagnant. I'm talking about physical draining, like a pump pumped out the excessive blood. It could be my imagination but only vitamin E in high doses so far came close to such an effect and yet IP6's effect was greater than that of vitamin E in my opinion.

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. Do you also experience pressure in the groin area during erections? I read that often times a varicocele is accompanied by groin pressure.

A close friend of mine is actually struggling with a varicocele/spermatocele for many months and he feels noticeable pressure when erect, but not when flaccid. I'll definitely pass this info along to him, since TRT/testosterone or progesterone had no benefit in this regard.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. Do you also experience pressure in the groin area during erections? I read that often times a varicocele is accompanied by groin pressure.

A close friend of mine is actually struggling with a varicocele/spermatocele for many months and he feels noticeable pressure when erect, but not when flaccid. I'll definitely pass this info along to him, since TRT/testosterone or progesterone had no benefit in this regard.

Hey yeah no problem, this is just my experience though, and please be sure to inform your friend to research IP6 thoroughly first and also tell him it is an iron chelator and potentially (not disclosed) a calcium chelator, perhaps also according to various sources a potassium chelator, perhaps also a magnesium chelator with all risks associated with that, hypocalcemia (deadly), hypokalemia (deadly too), hypomagnesemia (also deadly) anemia, depletion of other key minerals like phosphorous, etc! Phytate is the right form, not phytic acid, the latter binding minerals, according to the FAQ webpage of the manufacturer of the product that I used, IP6 Gold, at IP6 Inositol Immune Support IP6Gold. The phytate that they speak of is naturally bound already to minerals, namely calcium, magnesium and phosphorous. I must admit that it is kind of scary, as there is a distinguishment between phytate and phytic acid which is so strong in difference according to this FAQ page. Do your own research first before making a decision! If the manufacturer says phytate is safe, I would think that that is indeed the safe form. And phytic acid therefore is not, as the manufacturer says it! Also, the product that I used contains a combination of IP6 and inositol. Do/let your friend do thorough research first for safety!

I feel no pressure in the groin area during erections but I do feel a pressure/pangs in the belly and stomach area where under the gonadal vein runs. And this overall sense of bloating and pain in the pampiniform plexus, which can intensify during erections.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Also see my latest post in this topic where I doubt the safety of IP6+Inositol:

What Do You Know About IP6/IP-6/inositol Hexaphosphate/phytate/phytic Acid?

And corresponding topic as to why it is possibly dangerous:

Potassium Ascorbate With Ribose For Cancer (With Cell Level Explanation Inside) Possible Treatment

 

[TreasureVibe]

Finally I've found a good anatomical picture which shows all the relevant veins in a clear matter. and my gut feeling has been confirmed, if my theory is correct.

An enlarged prostate can indeed easily push against the pampiniform plexus, atleast if this picture is correct:

Source: Neurologic Complications of Prostate Cancer

The prostate lies just above it, there is tissue in between which could possibly prevent the pampiniform from being squeezed, but seriously, do y'all think this is a believable cause after seeing this picture?

 

[churchmouth]

Great diagram

Interestingly my varicocele is greatly reduced now, following a few extreme episodes of blueballs. I was aroused for hours, and the resuilting pain lingered for a day and I could barely move for periods.

 

[bond]

Sometimes(as I believe is in my case) varicoceles may be caused by something called "Pelvic Congestion Syndrome" which, if you search the internet, is observed primarily in women but sometimes in males too. Causes are unknown but hormonal(incl thyroid) imbalances may play a role.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/sono.12005

I've also noticed that my varicocele is heavily affected by bowel movement's size/consistency... I took some psyllium husk the other day which really made my varicocele less painful...
I wonder if the IP6 may have a simillar effect.

 

[Daft]

Hey all. So this is very depressing. A week ago I decided to take IP6 Gold which contains IP6 and Inositol, to see if it could make me feel better. I overall felt like sh*t. So I took it, and the same day I started feeling very good and even my mood was improving too. I felt all sorts of tinglings in my body, and even my varicocele shrunk to a normal size! I took it for 3 days. An infectious/inflammatory feeling in the lung also cleared and I was able to breathe better. My immune system got a big boost. I could also smell things better again and discern smells from eachother. My urine also came out in a good volume again after 3 years. I just felt so awesome bodily wise, but then I decided I would quit because I was afraid it could cause anemia because IP6 is an iron chelator. I waited for about 7 days and the varicocele slowly but steady creeped back to a thicker size, and the congestion in my lung came back along with that infectious/inflammatory feeling.

Now today I started the IP6 Gold capsules again, but I don't feel the same benefits I had yet and I am afraid that for some reason they won't come back. This just makes me depressed as hell! I don't recall exactly on which day of the 3 days I started noticing the varicocele shrinking, so it might still happen as this is day 1 of me taking it to put a nuance to my story.

Yet still I am afraid I should've kept taking it, and now the benefits won't come back anymore.. Could anyone give me some sanity and talk some sense into me?

I believe it only chelates within a time span of taking it, such as 4 hours post, so it wont reduce absorbtion of minerals at other periods than that. It is naturally found in food you know if youve ever read paleo diet material. Studies show it reduces absorbtion, not cancel, so it would be like a 15-30% reduction for example, not the end of the world

 

[Elephanto]

IP6 is estrogenic (also chelates Zinc btw). I have used it in the past to lower Iron but now favor 2 teaspoons of grounded coriander seeds daily, which resulted in an important Iron reduction after a few months on the lab results of a user here. Cranberry juice also chelates Iron and has anti-biofilm properties, can cure urinary tract infections by preventing adherance of bacterias to the bladder wall. So there's a couple of alternatives you can use. I think the benefits you got from IP6 were from a reduction in Iron (thus reducing Endotoxins, which are promoters of estrogen) but that its own estrogenic effect might have given you the bad side effects and reduced its efficacy regarding varicocele on later uses.

 

[Cooper]

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