Occasional Boron Supplementation

[GenericName86]

In the new Danny Roddy podcast with Georgi, Georgi said boron is carcinogenic and wouldn’t touch it. I have a hard time accepting this but it made me rethink atleast.

I'll have to listen to the podcast, shame he think it's carcinogenic. I've been cycling 3mg every few days and had some nice results.

 

[Goobz]

I'll have to listen to the podcast, shame he think it's carcinogenic. I've been cycling 3mg every few days and had some nice results.

3mg every few days is lower than what many people get from food, I'm sure it's fine. I'm sure if the claim was "boron is carcinogenic" it was referring to higher doses than you get in diet / food.

As for the claim, I'd want to check out the sources pretty thoroughly. Boron is the opposite of carcinogenic for prostate cancer, at least. And more generally - people talk freely on internet podcasts, I doubt they want to be taken as gospel. Of all the claims given in those conditions, a pretty small number turn out to be true in the long term, IMO.

 

[Dave Clark]

3mg every few days is lower than what many people get from food, I'm sure it's fine. I'm sure if the claim was "boron is carcinogenic" it was referring to higher doses than you get in diet / food.

As for the claim, I'd want to check out the sources pretty thoroughly. Boron is the opposite of carcinogenic for prostate cancer, at least. And more generally - people talk freely on internet podcasts, I doubt they want to be taken as gospel. Of all the claims given in those conditions, a pretty small number turn out to be true in the long term, IMO.

Yes, people do talk freely on the podcasts, but people like Georgi and Ray should be certain of what they say because a lot of people look up to them as authorities on these health issues. What comes out of their mouth is not taken lightly, I think they know that, but also it is just their opinion and there is not always substantiation to their claims, however, if one of them says something is carcinogenic, people take that seriously.

 

[ReSTART]

Anybody get fatigue and tiredness from boron? Only was taking 3mg, I stopped taking it and I feel better.

 

[Titanium]

No not at all, even above 10mg/day no problem.

 

[reality]

In the new Danny Roddy podcast with Georgi, Georgi said boron is carcinogenic and wouldn’t touch it. I have a hard time accepting this but it made me rethink atleast.

How can an essential mineral be carcinogenic

 

[Mauritio]

@Blossom
How is your experience with boron and osteoporosis going?
I have a lot of patients with arthritis and osteoporosis, so I might recommend it to them .

 

[Blossom]

@Blossom
How is your experience with boron and osteoporosis going?
I have a lot of patients with arthritis and osteoporosis, so I might recommend it to them .

I think it’s going good but I haven’t had a chance to be retested. I feel strong and haven’t had any reasons to suspect it worsening. I found out about it one month prior to the covid situation..,
I honestly only remember to take boron a couple times a week. I’m looking into the option of getting my wrists scanned next time. I’m slightly suspicious of the results being inaccurate because I’m only 5’1 and I know scans are compared against women of average height. My mom had it pretty bad though so I wanted to keep an eye out in order to avoid the problems she had with disability and early death.

 

[Mauritio]

I think it’s going good but I haven’t had a chance to be retested. I feel strong and haven’t had any reasons to suspect it worsening. I found out about it one month prior to the covid situation..,
I honestly only remember to take boron a couple times a week. I’m looking into the option of getting my wrists scanned next time. I’m slightly suspicious of the results being inaccurate because I’m only 5’1 and I know scans are compared against women of average height. My mom had it pretty bad though so I wanted to keep an eye out in order to avoid the problems she had with disability and early death.

Okay, thanks for letting us know!
Keep us updated on your progress. It's crazy that you even developed osteoporosis in the first place, given your peaty lifestyle...
I'll try it out before recommending it anyway , especially because I'm always reacting strongly to anti-fungals .
And when I was hiking last year I had excruciating joint pain eventhough I'm still pretty young , so there might be some fungal activity in my joints .

 

[Blossom]

Okay, thanks for letting us know!
Keep us updated on your progress. It's crazy that you even developed osteoporosis in the first place, given your peaty lifestyle...
I'll try it out before recommending it anyway , especially because I'm always reacting strongly to anti-fungals .
And when I was hiking last year I had excruciating joint pain eventhough I'm still pretty young , so there might be some fungal activity in my joints .

Will do! I’m thinking it was the bad environment I lived in until 4 years ago and working nights.
Edit: and my history of prolactinoma.

 

[Dr. B]

How can an essential mineral be carcinogenic

Ray said he doesnt think theres good evidence showing boron, or chromium, are essential or beneficial. i think he said vanadium might be beneficial in small amounts. i dont think he likes nickel, tin, or silica either. these nutrients are added to some multivitamins but apparently evidence for them is lacking...

 

[Lumalux]

I remember coming across this study a while back and I'm sure it's been posted several times across the forum...

Nothing Boring About Boron

But I've definitely gotten some significant libido boosts from about a week or so of supplementing 9-12mg before bed. I use the "Tetra-Boron" supplement by Solaray.

Any one else get these effects? Seems to work very well after about 5 days as things slowly build up. Even by the second or third day I will notice more sexual urges. I typically will do like Mon-Fri, and I'm pretty amped up for the weekend. I only use it occasionally in one week cycles.

What are your thoughts/experiences?

I have dabbled with boron supplementation off and on over the years. The past week or so I have been more resolved in taking it. I have been taking 10 mg of citrate boron and 50 mg of zinc piccolinate once with breakfast and again sometime before bed. I am also taking butea superba and orchic (bull testicle extract). Every night the past week or so I have woken up during the night with a raging erection (I am 55 and this is quite pleasurable). During those times I have also been very sexually aroused and I felt like I came very close to having a wet dream on a couple of occasions, where I actually held back rather than given in and letting it go off. I am greeted mornings by a diamond hard erection. Also, minimal stimulation results in an immediate erection and secretion of copious amounts of pre-ejaculate. So I think the boron, perhaps in conjunction with the other supplements, is doing something good. I have noticed that my arms, hands, shoulders and legs are getting hairier which I am thrilled about. Perhaps estrogen is going up?

 

[Sumbody]

I have dabbled with boron supplementation off and on over the years. The past week or so I have been more resolved in taking it. I have been taking 10 mg of citrate boron and 50 mg of zinc piccolinate once with breakfast and again sometime before bed. I am also taking butea superba and orchic (bull testicle extract). Every night the past week or so I have woken up during the night with a raging erection (I am 55 and this is quite pleasurable). During those times I have also been very sexually aroused and I felt like I came very close to having a wet dream on a couple of occasions, where I actually held back rather than given in and letting it go off. I am greeted mornings by a diamond hard erection. Also, minimal stimulation results in an immediate erection and secretion of copious amounts of pre-ejaculate. So I think the boron, perhaps in conjunction with the other supplements, is doing something good. I have noticed that my arms, hands, shoulders and legs are getting hairier which I am thrilled about. Perhaps estrogen is going up?

This is great!

Be careful taking the Zinc however, long term high dose supplementation can have an affect on copper levels as they both compete for absorption.

IMO, boron has a balancing effect on the hormones, while estrogen may rise, it likely won't rise to unhealthy levels, but just enough for good sexual function and libido.

Wouldn't hurt to have some hormone panels done, and then re-test at various intervals just to see.

 

[Lumalux]

This is great!

Be careful taking the Zinc however, long term high dose supplementation can have an affect on copper levels as they both compete for absorption.

IMO, boron has a balancing effect on the hormones, while estrogen may rise, it likely won't rise to unhealthy levels, but just enough for good sexual function and libido.

Wouldn't hurt to have some hormone panels done, and then re-test at various intervals just to see.

Yes, I really should get labs done. I had them done a few years ago. Test was low normal, I think, and prolactin was elevated.
Thanks for the advice on the copper. I have supplemented in the past with zinc-copper combinations, but my current bottle is just 50 mg zinc piccolinate. I may pick up some copper. If I am taking 50-100 mg zinc daily, how much copper should I take daily?

 

[Sumbody]

Yes, I really should get labs done. I had them done a few years ago. Test was low normal, I think, and prolactin was elevated.
Thanks for the advice on the copper. I have supplemented in the past with zinc-copper combinations, but my current bottle is just 50 mg zinc piccolinate. I may pick up some copper. If I am taking 50-100 mg zinc daily, how much copper should I take daily?

I really can't say.

I know generally Peat advises against Zinc supplementation as opposed to getting those nutrients from say something like oysters.

 

[Dave Clark]

I really can't say.

I know generally Peat advises against Zinc supplementation as opposed to getting those nutrients from say something like oysters.

Some interesting news about oysters. I always wondered about shellfish and what other things besides nutrients they absorb from the waters:

New Plastic Trojan Horse – Accumulation of Bacteria-Tainted Plastics in Food Underestimated - Tango Advanced Nutrition

A new study reports that the accumulation of plastics in foods may be underestimated. There is also concern these microplastics can carry potentially harmful bacteria such as E. coli, which

www.tangoherbs.com

 

[Dr. B]

Some interesting news about oysters. I always wondered about shellfish and what other things besides nutrients they absorb from the waters:

New Plastic Trojan Horse – Accumulation of Bacteria-Tainted Plastics in Food Underestimated - Tango Advanced Nutrition

A new study reports that the accumulation of plastics in foods may be underestimated. There is also concern these microplastics can carry potentially harmful bacteria such as E. coli, which

www.tangoherbs.com

interesting
same applies to shrimp, krill, everything else then?

 

[Dave Clark]

interesting
same applies to shrimp, krill, everything else then?

I think clams, oysters, scallops, etc. are often referred to as 'filters', and unless farmed, are bottom dwellers, where toxic stuff can settle. I don't have much scientific info on all this, but it is not out of the realm of logic, seeing the pollution that could be around these food sources.
I know these types of foods are high in nutrients, but I would like to see more random testing of pollutants, heavy metals, etc. I limit my intake, I don't trust the purity of shellfish, I would sooner get the nutrients from organic, grass-fed dairy, eggs, meat, etc. Anyway, this is a boron thread, and proper fruits and vegetables will supply that, but zinc is more abundant in meats, so I think we have to be particular as to the 'cleanness' of the meat we eat, whether it be seafood or landfood.

 

[Dr. B]

I think clams, oysters, scallops, etc. are often referred to as 'filters', and unless farmed, are bottom dwellers, where toxic stuff can settle. I don't have much scientific info on all this, but it is not out of the realm of logic, seeing the pollution that could be around these food sources.
I know these types of foods are high in nutrients, but I would like to see more random testing of pollutants, heavy metals, etc. I limit my intake, I don't trust the purity of shellfish, I would sooner get the nutrients from organic, grass-fed dairy, eggs, meat, etc. Anyway, this is a boron thread, and proper fruits and vegetables will supply that, but zinc is more abundant in meats, so I think we have to be particular as to the 'cleanness' of the meat we eat, whether it be seafood or landfood.

even milk has it,
i think standard 1% milk has 1mg zinc per cup.
so half gallon a day youre at 8mg
i suspect, 100% grass fed milk, from guernsey or jersey cows with the golden yellow color, and in whole milk, could have even more zinc. so maybe 10mg or more for a half gallon.
then add in an ounce liver a day, i think would have 2mg zinc and 3mg copper. so youre already at a good amount without needing ground beef which has too much phosphate and usually people eating beef will eat at least a quarter pound, not a single ounce of the stuff...
what do you think about krill though? the oil has some interesting things like astaxanthin, choline... phospholipids
i think milk has boron btw, but around 0.1mg or 0.3mg per cup or something... with a half gallon youll have a decent amount

 

[Dave Clark]

even milk has it,
i think standard 1% milk has 1mg zinc per cup.
so half gallon a day youre at 8mg
i suspect, 100% grass fed milk, from guernsey or jersey cows with the golden yellow color, and in whole milk, could have even more zinc. so maybe 10mg or more for a half gallon.
then add in an ounce liver a day, i think would have 2mg zinc and 3mg copper. so youre already at a good amount without needing ground beef which has too much phosphate and usually people eating beef will eat at least a quarter pound, not a single ounce of the stuff...
what do you think about krill though? the oil has some interesting things like astaxanthin, choline... phospholipids
i think milk has boron btw, but around 0.1mg or 0.3mg per cup or something... with a half gallon youll have a decent amount

I think this is why Ray likes dairy so much. Liver has to be fresh, or you risk oxidized iron, same with hamburger, iron and copper in the blood mixes with the meat and catalyzes oxidation. Shellfish can have contaminants. Astaxanthin is a carotenoid, so I suppose it is not Peaty, however, it is a good antioxidant. I don't think krill is a big bang for the buck, considering that you are loading up on omega-3 oil, and the amount of astaxanthin isn't enough, a good supplement would provide much more.. Choline can be had from good pastured eggs, but they too have some PUFA. One of the best plant sources of copper is kale, which I think properly cooked is fine to eat. When I sifted through my options, the best and most accessible for me is organic grass-fed dairy, meat, cheese, and eggs. Shellfish in my area is expensive and hard to find fresh with any quality. Liver should be fresh {even Peat has said that}, and not easy to come by also in my area, plus, I do not prefer the taste. So, to some it up for me" boron from fruits, iron and copper from meat and kale, zinc from meat, etc., vitamin A and choline from eggs and dairy, calcium from dairy, etc. I live in Amish country, so I have access to high quality, clean land-based foods, and seafood is more of a challenge, so I eat that on occasion.