Occasional Boron Supplementation

[Dr. B]

I think this is why Ray likes dairy so much. Liver has to be fresh, or you risk oxidized iron, same with hamburger, iron and copper in the blood mixes with the meat and catalyzes oxidation. Shellfish can have contaminants. Astaxanthin is a carotenoid, so I suppose it is not Peaty, however, it is a good antioxidant. I don't think krill is a big bang for the buck, considering that you are loading up on omega-3 oil, and the amount of astaxanthin isn't enough, a good supplement would provide much more.. Choline can be had from good pastured eggs, but they too have some PUFA. One of the best plant sources of copper is kale, which I think properly cooked is fine to eat. When I sifted through my options, the best and most accessible for me is organic grass-fed dairy, meat, cheese, and eggs. Shellfish in my area is expensive and hard to find fresh with any quality. Liver should be fresh {even Peat has said that}, and not easy to come by also in my area, plus, I do not prefer the taste. So, to some it up for me" boron from fruits, iron and copper from meat and kale, zinc from meat, etc., vitamin A and choline from eggs and dairy, calcium from dairy, etc. I live in Amish country, so I have access to high quality, clean land-based foods, and seafood is more of a challenge, so I eat that on occasion.

oi mate is astaxanthin good because it stops lipid peroxidation? is it a vitamin E like effect? its interesting why do krill need it considering theyre in super freezing waters, why would krill need an antioxidant substance since apparently the coldness and being in the water should be enough to stop lipid peroxidation?
astaxanthin supplements have sourcing issues, plus the problem is also the supplement form at least is a 5AR inhibitor, has side effects...

but look at this krill oil supplement...
if you look at the label its 500mg of krill oil, yet it says 120mg omega 3, and 200mg phospholipids per 500mg capsule. What type of fat are the phospholipids? what's the rest of the fat made of? is there some saturated fat in there or something?
choline is in liver and milk right.
i dont like cheese nor eggs, i think nobody is feeding the chickens just grass, even the pastured ones are supplemented with nonsense and kelp. cheese has issues with what they use to make it these days.
I am doing grass fed organic milk, and thinking of implementing the great lakes orange gelatin can for 100g+ protein. can you eat that gelatin straight out the jar? as a protein source, or does it need to be cooked or have water added.

interesting, Amish country meaning like lancaster county, Pennsylvania? there's a lot of raw milk farms there that ship nationwide, raw milk anywhere. dutch meadows is one of them. very expensive to get theirs shipped.
some fruits have some good iron like even mangoes have some, dates, figs. dried pineapples, and coconut water contain a ton of manganese.

Omega-3 Antarctic Krill Oil Softgels

Don't let their small size fool you, krill are a powerhouse of benefits for both the brain and body.

sportsresearch.com

 

[GreenTrails]

I take 1/8th tsp of borax, which weighs 530 mg, daily. Since borax is 11% boron, that means I'm getting 58 mg of boron daily. Dr. Jorge Flechas recommends 30 mg/day, or 75 mg/day for joint pain, or up to 150 mg/day for osteoporosis. Some people recommend putting the dose in a bottle of water and consuming it throughout the day but I do well just taking it all at once in a little water.

And it starts working pretty quickly. I started noticing benefits within just a few days, but initially felt like that can't be real, probably placebo. But it just kept getting better. So my feeling is that it is truly an essential mineral nutrient, one that has maybe become depleted from our soils through factory farming. Peat says nothing about boron that I've found, but you can get a small dose by eating tons of fruit, which apparently he does, so he may have never suffered from arthritis. (You can also get it from nuts, but that's very anti-Peat.)

I haven't noticed any skin benefits.

Thanks for this information. May I ask what kind of borax do you take?

 

[Sumbody]

Thanks for this information. May I ask what kind of borax do you take?

I'm not the person you replied to, but this is typically what everyone uses when referring to Borax.

I use 1/4 tsp in about 16 ounces water when I do use it.

Don't be off put by the fact it says 'Detergent booster' on the box. Boron will raise the pH of water plus it has the ability to bind to hard water minerals in a laundry type situation. So it increases the efficiency of the detergent used.

It is also dirt cheap at about 5 bucks a box from your local Walmart.

Boron has many uses, as well as being a nutrient essential to several functions of the body.

 

[Dr. B]

I'm not the person you replied to, but this is typically what everyone uses when referring to Borax.

I use 1/4 tsp in about 16 ounces water when I do use it.

Don't be off put by the fact it says 'Detergent booster' on the box. Boron will raise the pH of water plus it has the ability to bind to hard water minerals in a laundry type situation. So it increases the efficiency of the detergent used.

It is also dirt cheap at about 5 bucks a box from your local Walmart.

Boron has many uses, as well as being a nutrient essential to several functions of the body.


View attachment 26289

Ray doesnt think its essential friend...

 

[Sumbody]

Ray doesnt think its essential friend...

He may not, but I do believe it serves a purpose in the body.

Essential or not, perhaps my statement was rather large.

But there are locations on the planet where the boron content of the soil is much higher than others.

Folks from those locales have less incidence of arthritis and other ailments than those from areas where either boron soil content is depleted or said mineral is less consumed.

There is a ton of information about this above in this very thread as well as others on the forum. Also difficult to dismiss the vast amount of anecdotal experiences people have when consumption is increased.

 

[Nokoni]

Thanks for this information. May I ask what kind of borax do you take?

Same stuff @Peopleface does. And I'm taking more like 1/16th of a teaspoon these days.

 

[GreenTrails]

I'm not the person you replied to, but this is typically what everyone uses when referring to Borax.

I use 1/4 tsp in about 16 ounces water when I do use it.

Don't be off put by the fact it says 'Detergent booster' on the box. Boron will raise the pH of water plus it has the ability to bind to hard water minerals in a laundry type situation. So it increases the efficiency of the detergent used.

It is also dirt cheap at about 5 bucks a box from your local Walmart.

Boron has many uses, as well as being a nutrient essential to several functions of the body.


View attachment 26289

Thank you!

 

[Dr. B]

He may not, but I do believe it serves a purpose in the body.

Essential or not, perhaps my statement was rather large.

But there are locations on the planet where the boron content of the soil is much higher than others.

Folks from those locales have less incidence of arthritis and other ailments than those from areas where either boron soil content is depleted or said mineral is less consumed.

There is a ton of information about this above in this very thread as well as others on the forum. Also difficult to dismiss the vast amount of anecdotal experiences people have when consumption is increased.

isnt borax used as laundry detergent or something
maybe its some anti bacterial effects from it causing its help?
maybe side effects also are due to that?
the supplements always have different effects mate...
but interesting...
i heard turkey and israel have the highest boron levels right? you can actually get dried organic turkish figs... they're smyrna figs... the taste isn't as good as mission figs imo...

 

[Sospian]

Anyone taking boron NEEDS to be supplementing vitamin B2 unless they want to develop gynecomastia

 

[Dr. B]

Anyone taking boron NEEDS to be supplementing vitamin B2 unless they want to develop gynecomastia

interesting, hows that work, is the B2 to excrete estrogen? why specifically B2 needed alongside boron?
thats the thing with supplementing vitamins/minerals, each one has so many interactions... take a look at copper. its depleted by zinc, and iron, and manganese. and zinc, depleted by both copper/iron. manganese, depleted by both iron/copper. there's basically no way to properly supplement a mineral, and even if you are able to replicate the exact ratios in something like liver, there's probably a bunch of unknown/undiscovered nutrients/minerals present in liver which balance it, which you probably cant even buy as a supplement. so even if you replicate the ratios it probably wont work...

 

[Dr. B]

Turkish and Israeli soil are boron heavy. The dried apricots you can find at your local grocer probably come from those two regions - check the packaging for the origin. Eat a few for breakfast each day, they go well with coffee in my opinion. Avoid the yellow ones, they’ve been treated with sulphur to preserve the colour.

Not really. As @olive said, Israel and especially Turkey have very high levels of boron in their soil, so many that live there get a higher daily dose, just from food, than I do. They have very low levels of arthritis and no bad effects have been noticed. Also, I've read that the LD50 for boron is twice as high as it is for salt. Keep in mind that I don't know anything about other forms of boron supplements. It's possible that they might have some problems. I don't know enough chemistry to keep up, but in online discussions I've seen warnings about taking this or that particular form, but others arguing exactly the opposite. Borax seems safe to me.

listen mate the sunny fruit company, they have dried figs at costco, organic, unsulfured, product of turkey. theyre smyrna figs so taste is just okay, not as good as mission figs.
the smart juice brand sells a bunch of things, like pomegranate juice, mulberry and other juices, all sourced from turkey, organic not from concentrate

 

[serling78]

I'm very confused about boron. It's tough when you see rave reviews about how great it is. I've been using it for a week and a half after reading about it elsewhere. 3mg once a day through a now supplement. The reason I started is because I've been slowly trying to incorporate d3 into my routine. D3 always causes constipation for me and I read boron should help with that. I'm only using tiny amounts of d3 (200-400 IU. That's right, 200. Not 2000 or 20,000)but still the side effects are legit. I do take plenty of magnesium and get about 900mg of calcium through milk.

So anyway...after a week or so on boron I feel no benefits yet and anecdotally my libido has been down. So this is one of those classic situations where others say it actually increases libido among other things so do I increase the dosage of something that may be doing the opposite for me or even keep taking the same dose of something that once again may be giving me negative side effects?

 

[LLight]

I'm very confused about boron. It's tough when you see rave reviews about how great it is. I've been using it for a week and a half after reading about it elsewhere. 3mg once a day through a now supplement. The reason I started is because I've been slowly trying to incorporate d3 into my routine. D3 always causes constipation for me and I read boron should help with that. I'm only using tiny amounts of d3 (200-400 IU. That's right, 200. Not 2000 or 20,000)but still the side effects are legit. I do take plenty of magnesium and get about 900mg of calcium through milk.

So anyway...after a week or so on boron I feel no benefits yet and anecdotally my libido has been down. So this is one of those classic situations where others say it actually increases libido among other things so do I increase the dosage of something that may be doing the opposite for me or even keep taking the same dose of something that once again may be giving me negative side effects?

Hypothesis : consider adding a manganese supplement as boron might shuttle manganese too much in your (liver) cells and deplete its blood level.

 

[LLight]

Boron influences immune and antioxidant responses by modulating hepatic superoxide dismutase activity under calcium deficit abiotic stress in Wistar rats - PubMed

The influence of Boron (B) supplementation on immune and antioxidant status of rats with or without abiotic stress induced by dietary calcium (Ca) restriction was studied in a feeding trial of 90 days. Wistar strain rats (3-4 wk age, n=84) were divided into 7 dietary groups (4 replicates of 3...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study shows that boron could help with cells (liver at least, in rats) manganese uptake.

When boron consumption was increased, mnSOD mRNA increased in the liver, serum manganese decreased and antioxidant capacity of blood increased.

 

[serling78]

Hypothesis : consider adding a manganese supplement as boron might shuttle manganese too much in your (liver) cells and deplete its blood level.

I don't want to side rail this, but the issue is definitely the d3...my old enemy. Took 3 days off my tiny d3 supplementation and libido is back and digestion is way better. Kept taking boron as normal during that time. My body seem to absolutely not be able to handle any amount of d3 and I have no idea why. I've tried all forms ,brands ,vegan, etc.

 

[Dave Clark]

I don't want to side rail this, but the issue is definitely the d3...my old enemy. Took 3 days off my tiny d3 supplementation and libido is back and digestion is way better. Kept taking boron as normal during that time. My body seem to absolutely not be able to handle any amount of d3 and I have no idea why. I've tried all forms ,brands ,vegan, etc.

'Although it is debated much, welcome to the 'get your D from the sun' club. I am one who feels D does not need to be supplemented if there is proper sun exposure, or if a proper sun lamp is used. Go with the way your body feels, just because there are people saying take vitamin D supplements, doesn't mean your body/liver will do well with them. I know personally, I feel better 'off' the supplements, and I get sun and use a Sperti-D lamp.

 

[Dr. B]

'Although it is debated much, welcome to the 'get your D from the sun' club. I am one who feels D does not need to be supplemented if there is proper sun exposure, or if a proper sun lamp is used. Go with the way your body feels, just because there are people saying take vitamin D supplements, doesn't mean your body/liver will do well with them. I know personally, I feel better 'off' the supplements, and I get sun and use a Sperti-D lamp.

Do you use any oral supplements? Policosanol, olive leaf, vitamin E, black seed?

I don't want to side rail this, but the issue is definitely the d3...my old enemy. Took 3 days off my tiny d3 supplementation and libido is back and digestion is way better. Kept taking boron as normal during that time. My body seem to absolutely not be able to handle any amount of d3 and I have no idea why. I've tried all forms ,brands ,vegan, etc.

Whats your diet like? You really had such severe effects from just 200 IU of D3? So it lowered your digestion and libido and everything else?

 

[Dave Clark]

Do you use any oral supplements? Policosanol, olive leaf, vitamin E, black seed?


Whats your diet like? You really had such severe effects from just 200 IU of D3? So it lowered your digestion and libido and everything else?

I do use many supplements, and olive leaf is one, since studies show it ups the conversion of T4 to T3 hormone, so it is pro-thyroid.. I use policocanol, and do not notice much of anything, but it is inexpensive. I do use vitamin E for the anti-estrogen and antioxidant effects. I have tried black seed oil in the past, but it really did not give me the anti-inflammatory results I was looking for, so I stopped using it, no need to have extra PUFAs for no reason. Sometimes I will revisit supplements that I did not get any palpable results from, just to see if my body has a better reaction to them. if not, I shelve them.

 

[koky]

'Although it is debated much, welcome to the 'get your D from the sun' club. I am one who feels D does not need to be supplemented if there is proper sun exposure, or if a proper sun lamp is used. Go with the way your body feels, just because there are people saying take vitamin D supplements, doesn't mean your body/liver will do well with them. I know personally, I feel better 'off' the supplements, and I get sun and use a Sperti-D lamp.

dave do you use sperti consecutive days, or every other as sperti advises?

 

[Dave Clark]

dave do you use sperti consecutive days, or every other as sperti advises?

I live in the NorthEast US, and I get sun from about May to September, and do not use my Sperti, but the rest of the year I use it three times/week. This is pretty much an arbitrary decision since I do not test for D. I am a believer that the storage test for D does not reflect a person's true D status, anyway. It is like checking your fuel line in a car to see how much gas you have in the tank. The serum levels are not the place to test for a fat soluble hormone, which may be replete in tissue, but not in serum. Anyway, I do not think the Sperti needs to be used everyday, but it can be if desired.