Obesity Caused By Gut Flora

[tara]

I was actually considering the same possibility. If I remember correctly, she gained 10 pounds and was unable to lose it.

But that is a common symptom that many people have after a stressful period in their lives. So it very well could be the explanation.

10 pounds isn't much. I agree, many people gain that after a stressful patch or event.

10 pounds can be a full size difference to some people. It depends on context.

Yes, you are right it depends on context. It's all relative, I guess, and we all value these things differently. 10 pounds isn't much when your trying to figure out how to approach 50 or 100 pounds.

From my PoV, it might cost time and money to restock the wardrobe, and it can be an issue fashion-wise (and in terms of thin-privilege/fat oppression), but it's not as though it's much in the context of health. I think anyone who thinks they have to lose 10 pounds is probably more focussed on the former than the latter.

The statistical correlations between fat and health issues (as you know, I have reservations about the causal links), don't show up anything significant about 10 pound differences (at least above the median - 10 pounds underweight can indicate a real health problem). I see no way anyone can know what their ideal healthy weight would be within 10 pounds (as opposed to their socially-approved weight, or their fitting-in-their-favourite-dress weight, or maybe their getting-a-job-as-a-gym-instructor weight).

 

[YourUniverse]

Posting as an attempt to organize my thoughts on the matter, bare with me...

1) Read a post by haidut a while back saying that aspirin was a cure for sepsis, didnt think anything of it other than it was interesting.

What is sepsis? Sepsis is wacky bacterial flora and/or overgrowth in tissues. Bacterial overgrowth leads to enhanced endotoxin.

Recently read that low body temperature, a key concern on this board and which is usually defined as hypothyroidism, can be caused by sepsis.

So aspirin cures sepsis, and sepsis causes low body temperature, meaning aspirin cures low body temperature (well duh, but we knew that already...)

2) "Fat burning" is a slower metabolic mechanism than sugar burning, especially when powered by PUFA, and can be typically recognized by decreased body temperature. High-normal body temperature is generally good and is thought of as fast, healthy, or high metabolism; low temperature the opposite.

When I get cold randomly, my first thoughts are a) have some salt, then b) have some sugar, then c) go for a walk, and when really feeling awful, to have an aspirin. HOWEVER - recently I have been mulling over some of what Travis has written on exorphins and opiates, increased transit time & constipation, and have been experimenting with eating more foods that stimulate peristalsis, specifically carrots. WHEN I AM COLD, AND EAT A CARROT, I GET WARM QUICKLY. Since carrots contain insignificant sugar and do nothing directly for thyroid, this would likely indicate that sepsis was the cause of my low temperature (said differently - this would indicate that sepsis was the cause of my hypothyroid episode), and with the sepsis remedied with carrot, the temperature improved.

Coconut oil also makes a person warm, is antiseptic, stimulates peristalsis, AND acts as a thyroid surrogate in the presence of PUFA.

3) What feeds bacterial growth and sepsis? Starch, for sure. Sugar, to a lesser extent. Proteins, through putrefaction and potentially gluconeogenesis on a more theoretical level.

Putting everything together, my position on this matter:

Bacterial overgrowth can cause hypothyroid symptoms; antiseptic foods can relieve these symptoms (acting as thyroid surrogates in these circumstances); Controlling (read: ELIMINATING) bacteria may be the underlying key to effortless fat loss. Perhaps antibiotics, such as tetracyclines, could be effective anti-obesity measures. Aspirin is already known to be a "mitochondrial uncoupler", and cures sepsis; perhaps "antiseptic" should replace "uncoupler" as the sexy fat loss buzz word.

Minimizing bacteria may be the reason "low carb" or "ketogenic" diets work for so many people; it may be the underlying reason why carbs "make people fat" when in fact Ray Peat has written extensively on the metabolic-boosting effects of sucrose and the thyroid sparing effects of sugar in general. Low carb and ketogenic diets by definition have no starch, which definitely feeds endotoxin-producing bacteria (interestingly, controlling bacteria may be why traditional starch dishes are chalk full of garlic, turmeric & other spices, and slathered in butter - such as indian curries). Perhaps even fructose, lactose and sucrose feed overgrowth once a certain unhealthy floral critical mass has been established, such as in morbid obesity - this would explain why obese people have much higher success limiting carbs than limiting fats, and why fitness gurus like Charles Poliquin suggest the most carbs for the leanest (ie. least infested) people.

Eating to minimize bacteria may be the key to fat loss.

This must be what activated charcoal does, Ive never tried.

 

[michael94]

good post jamies

 

[YourUniverse]

Thanks @michael94

I realized just now - Iron is a major cause of bacterial overgrowth.

This makes giving blood and avoiding fortified breads even more important.

 

[YourUniverse]

Update - gave blood over lunch today. [Side note - my temperature at the pre-screening was 36.9 compared to 36.2 at my first donation 2 months ago - success].

What happened next, glorious.

Lifted weights 6 hours later. Standard full body, with a pull, a push, a plank, and a squat (I did deadlifts, incline bench press, planks and prowler pushes).

I was exhausted when I finished, which is basically typical. What usually happens, after every workout basically without fail, ESPECIALLY if I do not eat pre-workout (which I did not before today's workout), is I get freezing cold within ~45 minutes. What is interesting is that since giving blood, and offloading some iron, I am boiling warm post workout. Nothing else changed, not calories, not food selection, not supplements, nothing - I track everything on cronometer. In fact, I ate LESS calories today overall than I have over the previous few workout days, and I was definitely at least as physically active as usual throughout the day. And my hands, feet, and core are hot when they are normally frigid.

Starting after I wrote the post a few above this one, I have been really meticulous about having a full carrot salad daily, whereas before, I was just having a carrot followed by a spoon of coconut oil, and maybe some salt, usually skipping the vinegar. Now I have the entire salad, grated, with all toppings, PLUS horseradish and turmeric for extra anti-microbials - I typically have this for lunch. Its acidic and pungent, so I have some xylitol and chew gum afterwards.

Maybe less iron isnt the reason I am warm post workout when Im usually freezing, maybe its just the effect of having less total blood, I dont know. But Im intrigued, and Im going to continue along this path.

 

[Luckytype]

This is fantastic to read.

Do you feel like offloading iron is valuable enough that if someone doesnt live near donation sites they should bloodlet?

I swore the week following any bloodwork at all i felt much better.

 

[YourUniverse]

This is fantastic to read.

Do you feel like offloading iron is valuable enough that if someone doesnt live near donation sites they should bloodlet?

I swore the week following any bloodwork at all i felt much better.

Its a good question, for me, it would depend on how far the nearest clinic is, and how overweight the person was (ie. how much iron the person ostensibly has to lose).

We know iron is implicated in degenerative disease, so giving blood and avoiding fortified bread is probably healthy even if normal body weight.

 

[lvysaur]

WHEN I AM COLD, AND EAT A CARROT, I GET WARM QUICKLY. Minimizing bacteria may be the reason "low carb" or "ketogenic" diets work for so many people

Yeah I've noticed this for years.

Another big one; I seem to paradoxically do better waiting until I'm really hungry in order to eat. I wonder if getting hungry increases stomach acid (my gut instinct, heh, would be yes), effectively preventing bacterial growth. The delay would also starve the bacteria a bit more.

The people who do keto also tend to fast, or at least effectively do, since fat slows down digestion. If you do carbs, you need to be able to 1) digest it all 2) STORE it all. If you have bad liver storage, then you'll digest your meal, only save half of it, and by the time your glycogen is depleted you won't have had the time to replenish stomach acid. So you don't eat and suffer from low energy, or you eat to replenish energy, but suffer from bacterial growth, picking your poison.

I've also noticed very good effects from low dose coffee, and coffee is known to increase stomach acid.

 

[lvysaur]

I'm starting to think that virtually everything that works does so by affecting either gut flora, or TLR4 (endotoxin receptor).

Coffee, carrots, aspirin, sugar over starch, vitamin K2, and many others.

 

[YourUniverse]

I seem to paradoxically do better waiting until I'm really hungry in order to eat. I wonder if getting hungry increases stomach acid (my gut instinct, heh, would be yes), effectively preventing bacterial growth. The delay would also starve the bacteria a bit more.

That's a good point, and bacteria would make us feel hungry more often or prematurely, making subsequent feedings (on low stomach acid) more microbe-promoting.

 

[lvysaur]

That's a good point, and bacteria would make us feel hungry more often or prematurely, making subsequent feedings (on low stomach acid) more microbe-promoting.

Is there any evidence for this?

I was suggesting that one should be VERY hungry before eating, to ensure proper stomach acid.

 

[YourUniverse]

No evidence, following my train of thought unto your post.

Candida can cause sugar cravings as one example; when sepsis makes me cold, my first thoughts were to eat more food instead of dealing with the bacteria; since offloading iron, I have higher temperatures from less calories; IF bacteria are a big part of obesity, it would make sense that part of that is in appetite dysregulation (the other being hypothyroid-like symptoms).

 

[griesburner]

i am not sure but dont you have to differenciate between endotoxin symptoms and a real sepsis? isnt a sepsis a critically ill situation where your body is flooded with living bacteria and temperature is actually higher cause of a fever?

 

[YourUniverse]

Sepsis can be either very high or very low temperature, and Im sure there are degrees to sepsis, like hypothyroidism. A lot of people here would not qualify medically as hypothyroid, yet functionally they are.

When I take steps to minimize bacteria, I get more pro-thyroid responses. Sepsis may not be the word for it, but there it is.

 

[raypeatclips]

Sepsis can be either very high or very low temperature, and Im sure there are degrees to sepsis, like hypothyroidism. A lot of people here would not qualify medically as hypothyroid, yet functionally they are.

When I take steps to minimize bacteria, I get more pro-thyroid responses. Sepsis may not be the word for it, but there it is.

I think the word you're looking for might be endotoxin. People with sepsis don't get better with a carrot salad, they die.

 

[YourUniverse]

I think the word you're looking for might be endotoxin. People with sepsis don't get better with a carrot salad, they die.

Ok. Other than the words, none of the meaning changes.

 

[Blossom]

Ok. Other than the words, none of the meaning changes.

Endotoxin has turned out to be something I have to pay attention to or it can start to be a real problem. It definitely mimics a milder form of sepsis. There is even a medical diagnosis used these days for people who don't quite meet the official criteria for a sepsis diagnosis and no infection can be pinpointed. It's called SIRS-systemic inflammatory response syndrome. It makes you wonder if bacteria usually considered benign could be burdening the systems of some people who have other health challenges?

 

[YourUniverse]

Endotoxin has turned out to be something I have to pay attention to or it can start to be a real problem. It definitely mimics a milder form of sepsis. There is even a medical diagnosis used these days for people who don't quite meet the official criteria for a sepsis diagnosis and no infection can be pinpointed. It's called SIRS-systemic inflammatory response syndrome. It makes you wonder if bacteria usually considered benign could be burdening the systems of some people who have other health challenges?

Wow, this is really eye-opening. I'm interested if I have something along the lines of SIRS, it would certainly echo how effective countering bacteria has been for me so far. Thank you @Blossom

 

[raypeatclips]

Endotoxin has turned out to be something I have to pay attention to or it can start to be a real problem. It definitely mimics a milder form of sepsis. There is even a medical diagnosis used these days for people who don't quite meet the official criteria for a sepsis diagnosis and no infection can be pinpointed. It's called SIRS-systemic inflammatory response syndrome. It makes you wonder if bacteria usually considered benign could be burdening the systems of some people who have other health challenges?

What have you found most effective for controlling endotoxin?

 

[Blossom]

Wow, this is really eye-opening. I'm interested if I have something along the lines of SIRS, it would certainly echo how effective countering bacteria has been for me so far. Thank you @Blossom

You're welcome. It might not be sepsis but it's real.

What have you found most effective for controlling endotoxin?

Trying LDN is what helped me realize how much of an issue this is for me. I've been alternating between raw carrots, cooked mushrooms, bamboo shoots and granular AC and make sure to have one of them each day. I also use cascara a few times per week. I use various antibiotics like doxycycline, amoxicillin or ampicillin periodically too. Limiting starch to the best of my ability is helpful but I still have it occasionally for family meals or if it's completely unavoidable. I feel it's gradually improving and at least now I can pinpoint if it's becoming a problem and have several tactics to help.
Edit: I've ordered phages to try and they should arrive tomorrow.