Oatmeal?

[DaveFoster]

Oatmeal is the absolute worse starch right up alongside bread. It likely contains some amounts of gluten, is hard to digest, incredibly bland, and makes you gain weight.

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 118517 Oatmeal is the absolute worse starch right up alongside bread. It likely contains some amounts of gluten, is hard to digest, incredibly bland, and makes you gain weight.

So Dave, what's wrong with oatmeal?

 

[tara]

post 118517 Oatmeal is the absolute worse starch right up alongside bread. It likely contains some amounts of gluten, is hard to digest, incredibly bland, and makes you gain weight.

I dare say there are some Scots who would disagree. :) It has a great deal less gluten than wheat, if any. It can be hard to digest if it's not well-cooked, but oat porridge has never had as bad an effect on my digestion as wheat. It is a bit bland - salt. fresh, stewed or dried fruit, milk, etc help with that. May not be the best food in the world, but I don't think it's the worst either. Many factors and context can contribute to weight gain - there are lots of lean oat eaters around, as well as many round ones. And some people need to gain weight.

 

[DaveFoster]

And some people need to gain weight.

I didn't know you were Scottish. This is true, but that's what good ol' cyproheptadine is for.

I'm the opposite; I can't eat oats or I get flared gyno and my energy crashes through the floor. Maybe some LSD would balance that out.

 

[dd99]

I'm the opposite; I can't eat oats or I get flared gyno and my energy crashes through the floor. Maybe some LSD would balance that out.

What's the mechanism for oats causing gyno?

 

[dd99]

I've been eating oats (rolled, not oatmeal) for the last six or so months. I soak it in milk overnight with some fruit (pears, apples, berries - depends on the season) and then cook it in the morning. Add honey and voila - delicious porridge. Great with a strong coffee.

 

[Integral]

I eat it every morning. :) Put some putter and salt in there. I add a little protein powder too. Don't like the taste of oats on their own.

 

[DaveFoster]

What's the mechanism for oats causing gyno?

I wouldn't say oats "cause" gyno, but they can definitely contribute to nipple sensitivity due to elevated estrogen. I'd attribute this solely to the gluten content and any intestinal inflammation that accompanies the consumption of grains.

 

[dd99]

post 118628

What's the mechanism for oats causing gyno?

I wouldn't say oats "cause" gyno, but they can definitely contribute to nipple sensitivity due to elevated estrogen. I'd attribute this solely to the gluten content and any intestinal inflammation that accompanies the consumption of grains.

Yeah, I could see that - the starch particles raising serotonin, slowing down BMs and then raising estrogen. It hasn't been my experience - so far, at least.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Has anybody tried cooking oats for 30-40 minutes or longer?

 

[DaveFoster]

Has anybody tried cooking oats for 30-40 minutes or longer?

It helps, but it seems ideal to consume starch alongside raw carrots afterwards, and to mix plenty of fat (and sugar in the case of oatmeal) in with the oats.

Also, using skim milk instead of a water to cook the oats adds extra nutrients, and if you even use low-fat milk, the fat helps protect against the starch.

 

[Blossom]

+ gluten..

If you're concerned about gluten in oats you can buy oats safe for those with celiac disease. Bob's Red Mill is one such brand.

https://www.bobsredmill.com/gluten-free-rolled-oats.html

 

[Travis]

Even oats which have been certified free of gluten can have effects. Oats also have proline–glutamine‐rich peptides which are just as resistant to digestion as gluten, but in ~5× less concentration. I think of oats as gluten lite™.

I think potatoes are safer, but there are enzymes for sale which can break the proline–glutamine‐rich peptides in oats and wheat. With complete digestion, these proteins are perfectly safe. The primary reason, it appears, that gluten is so immunogenic is that it's resistant to pepsin and trypsin hydrolysis. The proline peptide bond is a most unusual bond, and the only real radically different peptide bond. Too many in a row can induce conformational changes in a peptide chain characterized by a tight spiral that most enzymes don't know what to do with.

The oat protein does have these regions, albeit in smaller concentrations. Rice, potatoes, and even corn appear to be safer.

 

[Blossom]

Even oats which have been certified free of gluten can have effects. Oats also have proline–glutamine‐rich peptides which are just as resistant to digestion as gluten, but in ~5× less concentration. I think of oats as gluten lite™.

I think potatoes are safer, but there are enzymes for sale which can break the proline–glutamine‐rich peptides in oats and wheat. With complete digestion, these proteins are perfectly safe. The primary reason, it appears, that gluten is so immunogenic is that it's resistant to pepsin and trypsin hydrolysis. The proline peptide bond is a most unusual bond, and the only real radically different peptide bond. Too many in a row can induce conformational changes in a peptide chain characterized by a tight spiral that most enzymes don't know what to do with.

The oat protein does have these regions, albeit in smaller concentrations. Rice, potatoes, and even corn appear to be safer.

That's surprising. I used to have some problems with even certified gluten free oats but after my gut healed I've had no problem eating them occasionally. It seems it really does come down to individual gut health.

 

[Travis]

That's surprising. I used to have some problems with even certified gluten free oats but after my gut healed I've had no problem eating them occasionally. It seems it really does come down to individual gut health.

The cells themselves don't all react, in vitro, to the same peptide fragments. White blood cells taken from different people will release interferon-γ in response to a chocolate peptide, yet some only to a gluten peptide. So there is some degree of past history involved, T cell 'memory,' or entrainment. But it impossible for them to release interferon-γ in response to a potato peptide since they will never be absorbed in large fragments, on account of having no proline–glutamine segments.

Many peptides have more potential than others but responses are variable. A little bit of oats can cause a barely noticeable histamine release, which is a stimulant, while larger doses can be problematic. I think someone eating 1000·Cal/day from oats would be less well‐off than one eating 1000·Cal/day of beans, rice, or potatoes (on average).

 

[DaveFoster]

Oatmeal ranks among the worst offenders in regard to PUFA:

PUFA in Grains

 

[Travis]

Oatmeal ranks among the worst offenders in regard to PUFA:

PUFA in Grains

Oats are second only to quinoa, which has 4.5⋅g per 500⋅Cal.

Quite a shame, really, as quinoa has such a cool name.

 

[CarbAppreciator]

Also quite a lot of phytate and quite an absence of phytase, especially if steamed during processing. Not to mention the potential of large glyphosate residues.

 

[Koveras]

But it impossible for them to release interferon-γ in response to a potato peptide since they will never be absorbed in large fragments, on account of having no proline–glutamine segments.

Just those damn starch granules

Persorption

 

[Travis]

How about the proline, a most unusual amino acid:

'Recent reports have identified several short sequences from gliadins that activate gluten-specific T cells from celiac patients but not from control individuals in an HLA-DQ2-dependent manner. Of particular interest are the observations by independent laboratories that the majority of the intestinal T cell response to α-gliadin in adult patients is focused on two immunodominant epitopes, PFPQPQLPY and PQPQLPYPQ (2, 3). Designation of these epitopes as immunodominant is due to two factors. First, gluten-specific T cells from intestinal biopsies of nearly all patients respond to these epitopes. Second, when dietary gluten is administered to patients who have been on a gluten-free diet, T cells responsive to these immunodominant epitopes are detectable in peripheral blood significantly earlier than T cells that respond to other immunogenic gliadin epitopes.' ―Hausch​

'We showed that these proline-glutamine-rich epitopes are exceptionally resistant to enzymatic processing. Moreover, as estimated from the residual peptide structure and confirmed by exogeneous peptidase supplementation, dipeptidyl peptidase IV and dipeptidyl carboxypeptidase I were identified as the rate-limiting enzymes in the digestive breakdown of these peptides. A similar conclusion also emerged from analogous studies with brush-border membrane from a human intestinal biopsy. Supplementation of rat brush-border membrane with trace quantities of a bacterial prolyl endopeptidase led to the rapid destruction of the immunodominant epitopes in these peptides.' ―Hausch​

And for some reason—and I'm not even sure anyone knows for sure—having a glutamine (Q) next to a proline (P) confers special resistance. The glutamine isn't thought to confer immunogenicity, physically, since it binds just as well—in fact, even better—to the recognition complex when deaminated to glutamate. I think it could be a solubility issue, since these proteins are found in the alcohol‐soluble fraction. The unusual proline residue undoubtedly confers enzymatic resistance, but the glutamine could just be functioning only to decrease water solubility—perhaps keeping the peptides in liposomes and micelles, away from the enzymes.. . .

Perhaps the antigenic sequences to look out for would be high‐proline, and non‐water‐soluble.

A seed storage protein found in oats has a similar antigenic sequence, but these segments are found in much less concentration (~5×) compared to wheat. Oats are much less immunogenic, but more so than rice and corn. (Just go to uniprot.org and look for proline‐rich segments in these proteins.)

And since Hausch and others had shown that certain bacterial peptidases can hydrolyze these peptides into individual amino acids, the specific bacteria strains in the intestine could play a role in determining the degree of response. Thus, the overuse of antibiotics followed by a wheat‐based diet could be especially troublesome, assuming of course we otherwise would have such prolyl peptide‐cleaving bacteria in our bodies.

Hausch, Felix. "Intestinal digestive resistance of immunodominant gliadin peptides." American Journal of Physiology-Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology (2002)​