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NovoThor Red Light Therapy Bed

Discussion in 'Red Light, Infrared, LLLT' started by Soren, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. Soren

    Soren Member

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    Hey guys was wondering if anyone had any information about this product from Thor Laser.

    It is basically a red light therapy bed. I've inquired to them as to the price but they are yet to get back to me. While I know it is possible to make a custom red light therapy bed with red light bulbs and a little ingenuity, this device looks like it would radiate the entire body.

    My question is does anyone know of a cheaper product that does the same thing as this looks quite expensive, or of a way to make your own red light bed with the same power output but without the same level of expense.

    Here is a link to a video as well as a description of the product as placed on their website.



    "The advantage of the NovoTHOR is it treats the whole body. Regular treatments of just 8-15 minutes reduces pain, while improving muscle performance and reducing fatigue.

    What is NovoTHOR?
    [​IMG]The advantage of the NovoTHOR is it is a whole body delivery system of PBM Therapy that has been designed to deliver optimal wavelengths, power densities and dosages based on published clinical research outcomes. The intended uses of the NovoTHOR are restoration of motion to joints, improved muscle performance, decreased post exercise soreness, and adjunct to obesity as part of a diet and exercise program.

    The Treatment
    The NovoTHOR is safe, relaxing and has no negative side effects. Clients are supplied with safety goggles and then relax into the NovoTHOR treatment pod for 8 - 15 minutes of whole-body restorative light treatment. The treatment may be repeated two or more times a week.

    Client Uptake
    Clients are consistently surprised by their first NovoTHOR experience. A course of 10 treatments typically spurs a decision to book further treatments. Client feedback highlights a wide range of health benefits including rapid recovery from acute injury, increased athletic performance, reduction of chronic inflammatory pain, improved sleep, reduced signs of aging, increased strength and less fatty tissue."
     
  2. Diokine

    Diokine Member

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    I've also been trying to find information on this system. They make very nice handheld IR probes in addition to this. I think they are using a 630nm LED w/ lens, which you can find very easily on ebay. It looks like about 50 LEDs per row, 3 rows per column, 3 columns per side. If these are 1W LEDs they could be getting close to 1kW of power consumption and ~100K lumens of output. That's a good bit of juice :D
    I think this system is pretty expensive though, around $20K?
     
  3. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    Thanks for that Diokine.

    I saw in a video on youtube that it has 816 watts looks like your about right with your assessment of nearly 1kw.

    20k?! My god that is ridiculous. Considering how insanely cheap the parts are that sounds insane. I think I might look into buying the parts and try making one myself. Which will be a massive first and great learning experience as I have never made anything that complex. Going to have to learn about power consumption etc. Anyone know how I can buy a tanning bed with the lights removed :laughing:.

    There are plenty of red light therapy beds on the market but I don't think I've ever seen one with this much power. I think my plan has got to be to buy one of those and simply replace the lights with ones with the correct wattage and power and then find a way to efficiently cool them.
     
  4. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    Ok done a lot more research and have a lot more information. Firs the price of the NovoThor is a ridiculous, ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! Considering that all the product is, is a tanning bed with red and near infrared LEDs this is one of the biggest rip off's I have ever heard. However, they have a bit of a monopoly as I have been able to find nothing else that does the same thing and they appear to be marketing it pretty well.

    Apparently they have already sold some to big sporting brands. The original device was literally just a re-purposed tanning bed where they took out the tanning bulbs and replaced them with LEDs.

    What I am going to try to do is make one for personal use at a fraction of the cost by simply purchasing the same tanning bed that they used in their first version and buying the correct LEDs. I have an electrician friend who is going to help me out.

    My current problem is I cannot figure out what tanning bed they used for their first version, I have some images of it here but I can't tell what it is. If anyone knows what type it is or where I could look for answers I would greatly appreciate it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I think it is this one but I am not sure of the make model or where to purchase in the UK:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Diokine

    Diokine Member

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    Wow $120K is way more than I thought but it's actually not an outrageous price in the long run, a place with one of these in the right area could easily generate $60/hr consistently... maybe more. They probably have pretty aggressive advertising and the ability to provide financing, they've definitely done their research and know they can charge that much. That's awesome you're trying to put one together, I was looking at some tanning beds on craigslist for the same reason. Looks like you can pick some up <$200 sometimes.
     
  6. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    Thanks Diokine, should be an interesting little project, my family are going to think I'm losing my mind I bet when they see a Star Trek like looking sunbed in the back garden :razz.
    If you ever see one for that price and your not looking to buy it yourself let me know. All the ones I can find online at the moment are 500 pounds minimum. Most are in the 1000-3000 range. So far i've only been looking on ebay, but I don't know where else to look in the UK. Don't know if craigslist has the same amount of usage here.

    Its a shame they don't offer a do it yourself version with an agreement not to commercialise it or something . I don't think I could handle the financing of 120,000 if it was just for me :laughing:.

    With the information I have and the help of my electrician friend I can figure out exactly what type of LEDs to use. Apparently their device delivers light at 17-20miliwats per second per cm 2, not sure yet what LEDs I'll need to get that, but I'm sure it won't be TOO hard to figure out.

    They also claim it is better to deliver the energy of light slower of time then quickly. So instead of getting 5 joules in 3 minutes from a powerful device they say it is better to get the same amount of energy over a longer period of time. They say that quick is good for pain relief and long is better for ATP production and increased metabolism. They have some research to back this up which seemed pretty solid. This equates to about a 15 minute session on one of their beds.
     
  7. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    Found some more technical data on the NovoThor. Has A LOT more diodes than I thought.

    Here is a link to the PDF I got this from, I've written out below the main technical Specs.

    NovoThor Tech Specs

    TECHNICAL DATA Treatment Duration: 8-12 minutes

    Wavelengths: Red and Near Infrared LED system; switchable from Mixed (Red + Near Infrared) to Red only

    Number of Diodes:
    Red: 630nm x 1200
    Red: 660nm x 1200
    NIR: 850nm x 1200

    Irradiance: 17mW/cm2 (average density for the entire surface area)

    Digital Timer: Programmable count down timer with auto shut off

    Overall Dimensions: 77.5”L X 35W” X 52”H (197cm X 91.5cm X 132cm)

    Treatment Bed Length: 73.5”L (187cm)

    Weight: 360 lbs. (163.29 kg)

    Voltage: 220 - 240VAC 11A max 50/60Hz

    Max Consumption: 2400W

    Service Interval: Annual, by trained personnel

    Projected LED Life: Greater than 30 years under typical use.

    Perhaps @RedLightMan has some advice on how one would go about obtaining the right LEDs for such a device. I feel like that the lights installed in their device must have all three versions of the LEDs in one unit. Also would love his or anyone else's advice as to what the cost of putting something like this together would be, just for the cost of the correct LED's.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Diokine

    Diokine Member

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    Woah that's a lot of LEDs and a that's a lot of juice. I'd say the product we're looking at that uses the converted tanning bed has a different setup than the new one they are advertising. In fact I think the one that we're looking at with a fan is just a rendering. I wonder if they actually have the product built yet? You don't see any video of that one in operation or with the LEDs on.

    I wonder what kind of system they'd be using to get that kind of LED density. I imagine some kind of proprietary high power LED strip or something, who knows?

    For making your own, the route I would go would be to get 8x24 inch (20x60cm) PCBs made up with the correct pitch and pad for some LEDs like these. You can build the circuit for them (series/parallel configuration) into the PCBs and tie two of them together to have an 8x48 inch (20x120cm) section that could replace one of the bulbs in the tanning bed. You'd need some kind heat dissipation, I was thinking of bracing the PCBs together with extruded aluminum sections like these fine pieces from 80/20. A 48" section is ~$26. They'd provide more than enough surface area for dissipating heat and plenty of rigidity. You'd need a PCB that could conduct enough current without issue, and also the heat, which might make them a little more expensive than standard ones but not outrageously so.

    You could build an adequate power supply without too much trouble also, some kind of burly MOSFET circuit as a constant current source. I figure the cost to do something right would be around $2000, that's throwing a little on top just to be safe. There are other options for high powered LED arrays that can get you pretty decent density without having to solder ~1000 LEDs but I'll let you look at those options to see what's available.
     
  9. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    They do have it built, I've seen videos of both the first generation and the second generation. The first is just a re-purposed tanning bed, the second is one they custom made for their device.

    Here is a photo of the second generation at an expo...

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the advice with regards to construction, I'll pass this all on to my electrician. I almost think the number of LED's stated here has to be a mistake, the technical specs did not come direct from Novothor but were written by CryoUsaSolutions. Also in one of the videos I saw for the first generation version they were saying that the device was 816 Watts, I don't see how it can be only 816 watts with 3600 LEDs. Perhaps they are counting the number of lights based on the amount of energy they emit versus the actual number of diodes. So the number is say 300 but they say it is the equivalent of 1200. I'll have to do some more research to make sure I get the numbers right.
     
  10. tara

    tara Member

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    If you were in a fairly close space like that with much more than 800 watts you could get pretty hot, couldn't you? Just thinking about the heat that comes off a 1kw radiant heater.
     
  11. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    Your right, which is why I think there has to be a mistake somewhere. The cryousa brochure that claims 3600 LEDs has to be wrong, unless these LEDs are all very low powered. If we assume that a low powered LED is 1watt, if there were 3600 LEDs in every device, that would mean 3600 watts!! Which is a huge amount of power. As you said it would be HOT!!
     
  12. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Looking at the pod pictured, it looks to be 1200 LEDs in the bed, at least active, which would be about a third. Still, a good dose of light. What with the bodylights featured on the forum, you could buy 4 or so, and make your own "pod" that could be similarly effective in about the same time, for a much lower price (still about $2,000 to $3,000, however).
     
  13. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    That is my plan. I already have one from redlightman. Going to buy a few more at some point and put them all together for one light bed.
     
  14. Phillip Bryant

    Phillip Bryant Member

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    Hey guys I am a paraplegic who has been getting in a whole body bed for a while now, it has helped me tremendously, but I just cant afford the 130k novothor bed! :(. I can get the bed put together if I can get the type bulbs and bed to put them in, I may not be the smartest but I can figure out quite a lot as long as someone points me in the right direction! What kind of bulbs are in the Novathor and can I find the bulbs? can I buy a tanning bed and put bulbs in a system? It would be amazing to put in my home and get in each day! Any help would be very appreciated!
     
  15. lollipop

    lollipop Guest

    @Sucrates @Daniel11 anyone have any ideas to help @Phillip Bryant? I wish I did. I remember somewhere a conversation about building a whole body bed. Anyone?
     
  16. Daniel11

    Daniel11 Member

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    Looks like LED bulbs and their parent company specializes in LLLT. Maybe you could talk to them and find out what kind of bulbs and wavelengths they are using. It would take quite a bit of work but you could probably make something similar, there would be a lot of led lights and you would have to make sure it was safe electrically and even that they are led bulbs the electronics would still create a lot of heat, you would need fans build in the system.

    A easy alternative that would still work very well is to get some of the whole body LED light therapy units that people on this forum use from life giving store.
     
  17. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    Perhaps you could try using the other full body devices that are available such as the joovv light or the RedLightMan full body device. I don't know what your budget would be but these devices if used correctly should be able to mimic the benefits of the novothor. The only issue for you given your condition would be to get a whole body benefit but with a little ingenuity i am sure this is easily feasible. I would wager that it will be alot easier to make these devices into a form of a bed or as they are rather then to make your own novothor bed from scratch. The reason I never followed through on making my own version of the novothor is because I discovered these alternatives. I myself own a full body red light man device.

    Remember the key points with regards to light therapy are penetration, power and energy density. If you do not have the right wavelengths there will not be sufficient penetration to treat more internal issues, equally if there is not enough power there will not be enough energy transmitted to have a biological effect.

    The novothor bed uses the same wavelengths as the Joovv and the RedLightMan product in fact the red light man product (which also happens to be the cheapest) uses more wavelengths of light than either the novothor or the Joovv. They both have sufficient power, wavelength and energy density to penetrate deeply and there are many testimonials of their benefits.

    Novorthor:

    Red: 630nm x 1200
    Red: 660nm x 1200
    NIR: 850nm x 1200

    Check out the links to the joovv and the redlightman product:


    Redlight Man Full Body: https://redlightman.com/product/combo-bodylight/

    620nm – 25% – Orange Red
    670nm – 25% – Deep Red
    760nm – 25% – Red-infrared
    830nm – 25% – Near-Infrared

    Joovv Combo full body: https://joovv.com/products/joovv-light?variant=39356431694

    660nm - 50%
    850nm - 50%

    The joovv has an option for a device that covers a larger surface area as well as a stand that you can fit the device. They also have a set up where you can connect multiple devices and it imitates almost exactly what I imagine it would be like for a full body. However while it is significantly cheaper than the novothor, this set up is still quite expensive. You can get the same benefit from just one double panel if you simply re-position your body throughout the session. https://joovv.com/pages/professionals

    [​IMG]
    A note on pricing. The redlight man fully body device costs 500 dollars but does not come with much in the way of set up. You have to buy something to hang it on the door etc.

    The joovv device comes with cables, a pulley system and hooks or a stand you can purchase. However there is a big discrepancy in price the Full size combo panel costs 2695 and if you want to buy a stand to make it easier to use the cost is 795 dollars. The Joovv panel is significantly wider and slightly longer than the redlight man panel so to get the same effect you would have to order two RedLightMan devices. Also the Joovv company offers financing.

    It is certainly not an easy choice comparing the two as they both have different strengths and weaknesses. For me the RedLightMan product is better because it covers a more full spectrum range of light but the Joovv has an easier set up and if you are willing to spend the money will require a lot less work on your part. Also the Joovv light is more similar to the novothor in terms of the wavelengths it offers.

    If I were you I would correspond with joovv explain to them your situation, talk about the novothor even and ask them for help with regards to making the best choice for you, they were very helpful with me with any questions I had. I would also send a message to @RedLightMan here on the forums or email them or call them (there is a number on his website).

    Good luck with everything. I hope this helps and you come back to the forums with any questions you might have and to update us on your progress.

    Best.

    P.S. be sure to check out what @charlie has linked below it is the same wavelenghts as the joovv but at a much much more affordable price.
     
  18. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    You can get the same light spectrum and power for a more affordable price at the link in my signature. @LifeGivingStore now also carries a bodylight with the Joovv wavelengths.
     
  19. OP
    Soren

    Soren Member

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    Thats awesome. Thanks for that charlie. Man that is a ridiculous difference in price.

    Only issue I have with that is it is quite a bit shorter and than the red light man product and less wide than the joovv, obviously this can be remedied if one buys a few more panels and has a bit of time and ingenuity.
     
  20. Phillip Bryant

    Phillip Bryant Member

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    Ok guys I am doing it, I am building my own bed so I can recover from my spinal cord injury. I just want to have a bed in my home that I can get in every morn. But I really need your help!

    I am purchasing a tanning bed, then pulling out all the bulbs and replacing them with the bulbs that are in the novothor bed. But I really need help with

    #1 tanning bed wattage type. #2 type led lights needed and how much and how to connect. #3 then where do I buy the led’s?

    I have a very small amount of $ I can invest but I think it’s worth it! I have paid to get in the novothor beds before and it helped, but I would rather try and build it, I have friends that can help me do the electric, now I am just trying to find out what type lights and how to setup. If you can help I will be so grateful!


    It’s been 7+ years in the wheelchair and I am almost out of it! I work hard daily to get better and I know this bed will help! Thanks for all the input already!


    I have been filming my recovery the past 7 years. This is just another step along the way and I want to show and help others like myself get better and film the making of the bed, include this forum for helping me get there and show others that there is hope is rehabilitation! This is my video preview of a documentary i have planned to film, and with your help this bed will another feature.

    I have gained so much knowledge from so many forums! Thanks for all your help in advance! Also my phone is two five two- 396- one 9 one three if anyone wanted to call and discuss! Any help is much appreciated! Thanks guys!
     
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