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freyasam

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@miquelangeles

I'm still curious if you have any evidence that ethernet and wired devices are more harmful than wireless and wi-fi.

I'm in groups for people with electrical hypersensitivity who are extremely sensitive to EMFs. They can't use a computer that's connected to wi-fi or wireless mouse, or their symptoms become unbearable. They all prefer ethernet connections.

So the experiences of the hypersensitive to EMFs suggest that ethernet and wiring is preferable to wireless and wi-fi. Radio frequencies from wifi seem to be worse than electric fields from Ethernet.
 
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miquelangeles

miquelangeles

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@miquelangeles

I'm still curious if you have any evidence that ethernet and wired devices are more harmful than wireless and wi-fi.

I'm in groups for people with electrical hypersensitivity who are extremely sensitive to EMFs. They can't use a computer that's connected to wi-fi or wireless mouse, or their symptoms become unbearable. They all prefer ethernet connections.

So the experiences of the hypersensitive to EMFs suggest that ethernet and wiring is preferable to wireless and wi-fi. Radio frequencies from wifi seem to be worse than electric fields from Ethernet.

All modems and routers introduce electromagnetic interference into the copper ethernet cable in various Khz and Mhz bands on top of the internet signal. As soon as you plug the ethernet cable into your laptop it will radiate all the way through your wired mouse and keyboard.

If you are in EHS groups you might be familiar with the work of Jeromy Johnson. Here's a video of him demonstrating this with an AM radio or you can try it yourself:


View: https://youtu.be/A0PPpdT5OKE


The solution is to put a fiber optic break between the laptop and the router (this is something that I haven't personally tried) or to try different devices that create lower EMI. I personally use ethernet and a 10/100 Mbps switch to downgrade the 1Gbps connection which cuts down some of the high frequencies coming from the provider's modem. Sometimes I use low power WiFi.
 
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miquelangeles

miquelangeles

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@miquelangeles excellent thread. As always!! Thank you.

A few comments:
- Why do you think people here will think this is woo-woo? These are topics discussed here in the forum since many years ago. Including your posts during the last years! There are thousands of papers demonstrating it also.

- I have experienced myself the insane damaging effects of EMF, however, I found a correlation between intensity and amount of signals and feeling bad. The less pollution of any kind, the better. However I must say that the worse is when are several combined and specially RFs from phone towers, airport control towers, etc. These drive me literally crazy if exposed enough, like it feels like I am going to loose my mind.

- Do I get it right that you propose some kind of amish lifestyle? Sure, all that pollution is very bad, but is there any real chance to escape it? For the average person. And what price will you pay by avoiding it? I can think of some aspects of that price: isolation, lack of job opportunities (economical and selffulfillment aspects), becoming more and more sensitive to these things so getting into a vicious circle and the WORST of it... the noocebo effect. I have said it before in other threads, I consider this battle lost for humankind. Soon (if not already) we will have satellites irradiating us everywhere in the globe. I don't see a way to escape it.

Don't take me wrong: Many of the positives and negatives you wrote about, I have experienced myself, so I know it is true. I just adopted a different action course regarding this, try to minimize the worse offenders and not think too much about the rest.

If it helps anyone else, during my experiments I found that the most useful Peatish substance to protect from EMF was lithium orotate. It was a complete shield against that kind of pollution. However, it has its drawbacks so I don't think it can be taken forever.

Please keep sharing your knowledge and experience. Really appreciated.
Hey @Makrosky .

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for offering your thoughts.
However, I disagree with some of what you said.
Regarding woo-woo science, I was referring to things I experimented with that are somewhat related but different. For example @RealNeat posted a thread about woo-woo devices back in 2022 and relatively few members here are into that stuff.

I do not propose an amish lifestyle.
I tried to make my post as comprehensive as possible to cover all aspects that can interfere with the experiment and might give you false results. For example you remove some of your devices and you won't notice any benefit because in fact your electrical wiring is full of noise, or your smoke detector is actually the culprit and it's always plugged in, or any other faulty device. If you have heavy EMI (electromnagnetic interference or dirty electricity) on your wiring that is measurable with an AM radio you don't have to call in a NASA scientist to sort it out. You just call your regular electrician and tell him you don't want this on your wiring, they all know what EMI is.

I even mentioned in the original post that this is just an experiment and you would have to reintegrate into society afterwards. What I'm trying to say is that it's very simple to alter your behavior and the way you interact with technology in order to create very safe environments in your home and workplace that will completely transform your health, life and productivity. Even if you live in a big city. You don't have to go full skizo mode.

Prior to the pandemic I have lived for more than 7 years on a less than 1 square kilometer tropical island in the middle of the Indian Ocean. Life was amazing. Swimming in bioluminescent Avatar-like blue plankton at night, fishing and hunting for octopus, squid and lobsters almost ever day. Guavas, papaya, mango, pineapple, stone apple, watermelons growing everywhere. As primal as you can get. However, I still used a laptop and other devices almost every day, I lived in an electrified house powered by a community generator, I used WiFi routers, cheap LED bulbs, ceiling fans, and I carried a smartphone on me at all times, had access to 3G initially and in the later years I had 4G. Yes, everything matters and makes a difference - food, sunlight, air etc. But trust me, minimizing your exposure to technology feels completely different and brings back a long forgotten magical feeling of the 1990s and early 2000s no matter where you are, whether on a tropical island or in the middle of a big city.
Like I said, it's a very complex subject and the majority of people lack the understanding of how pervasive these issues are and how profoundly they affect us. Things you wouldn't imagine have the potential to wreak havoc through your life.
I have often seen people both in real life and on this forum saying "Well, I already see 20 WiFi networks from my neighbours, what difference does it makes if I do x and y". Might as well drown yourself in all kinds of EMFs? That's the most ignorant thing to say.

Anyone who is not familiar with magnetism and electricity, they can buy some magnets and do some simple school experiments to revisit Faraday's law of induction and see how conductive metals interact with magnetic fields. At the very basic level you can get an idea how magnetic fields interact with your highly conductive nerve fibers and metals in your body.
Your brain contains biogenic magnetite crystals in clumps of 50-100 particles. In brain tissue there are 5 million crystals per gram and the meninges have up to 100 million crystals per gram.
All cells and organs communicate through subtle energy fields which can be easily disrupted simply by holding your supercomputer aka smartphone in your hand.
You can build an infinite shaking flashlight using an LED, a copper wire and a magnet, without any batteries at all. Or a magnetic water heater. Or bring a magnet close to an AC powered incandescent bulb and then to a DC powered bulb to see how they interact. You can find all of these on YouTube:


View: https://youtu.be/8VrPK6zFgzU


View: https://youtu.be/LsBtEFaECmc


View: https://youtu.be/vRsYYGOdbo4


View: https://youtu.be/lD7JJCME-JI


View: https://youtu.be/vC8smjMR9so?t=95


Before any physical effects become obvious, it is the brainwaves that get altered first and very rapidly. Try the various meditation techniques and train yourself to recognize your state of mind and dominant brainwaves patterns how they change throughout the day depending on your activities and surroundings. Notice how they change after a session of breathwork or after something simple as Aum chanting for 10 minutes.
It's interesting how much hesitance (and in some cases opposition) from many people to try any of these experiments. At the same time, others go neurotic about a tablespoon of PUFA in a restaurant meal and they have to carry cocktails of Vitamin E and antioxidants with them (while also carrying a supercomputer connected to 4G or 5G in their pocket). Or they try 4 years long experiments of "PUFA depletion" and they are also able to describe how "it feels".
Idea for another variation of the experiment (obviously only if your current situation allows it): get a dumb phone with a second number and forward all your smartphone calls to it. Set your status on Whatsapp/Telegram or whatever to "Available only on GSM". Keep your smartphone completely turned off and turn it on only if urgent and try not to exceed 30 minutes of direct contact with it per day. Go for a long walk without taking any phone with you. Or take only the dumb phone. Stay away from any computers and screens.

A while ago @JamesGatz posted an interesting thread which inspired me to repeat his experiments.
I was surprised to notice EXACTLY the same things as he did. I tried different laptops with washout periods of several days of staying away from devices. Using older generation computers is common among EMF aware people and monitors are the biggest source of EMF. So in my next experiment I took a model of monitor I was using in 2009-2011. During those years I was in poor health - digestive issues, gastroparesis, low stomach acid, GERD, rhinitis, chronic cough (just before leaving civilization behind for the slow island life which cured everything).
After using the old monitor for a few hours I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't cause much discomfort or mental fatigue. It also didn't have very noticeable emissions on the AM radio at the end of the spectrum.
However, by the end of the day I started feeling nauseous out of the blue and a weird feeling in my stomach, a low stomach acid feeling. It was the exact same feeling that I had in 2009-2011 as if I was transported back in time. I then took the AM radio again, cycled through the whole spectrum this time and discovered very strong emissions in the lower bands of 500-600Khz.
@TheSir I also noticed that newer iPhones are more silent (iPhone 11 Pro is much worse for example). But keep in mind that the AM spectrum is narrow between 500 to 1700 kHz and the radio doesn't hear anything below or beyond that.
Each device and new generation of devices emits different sets of frequencies and they all have different effects. Lower frequencies in the Khz and low Mhz bands can be more damaging because they have a higher penetration depth. If you want to go down the rabbit hole and see how EMF causes an epidemic of GI disorders - GERD, SIBO, leaky gut, gastroparesis, sluggish liver, endotoxemia etc there's no shortage of literature. There is plenty of evidence that other channels are also influenced, voltage-gated sodium channels, voltage-gated potassium channels and voltage-gated chloride channels.
But it's not worth wasting time in front of a screen. You don't need to know how something works in order to benefit from it. Most people don't know how their car or phone works yet they still use it. You just need to limit the use of computers and devices strictly for work and important things, as little time as possible and do not consume any entertainment via devices.
 

Makrosky

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miquelangeles, I understand you man. All I am saying is that trying to avoid all these things CAN result in even more stress and isolation and a lack of living in the present. Example:

What I'm trying to say is that it's very simple to alter your behavior and the way you interact with technology in order to create very safe environments in your home and workplace that will completely transform your health, life and productivity. Even if you live in a big city. You don't have to go full skizo mode.
How are you going to avoid it in a modern workplace? Unless very specific places. I can give you the example in the building where I work, where at the beginning I tried to find a low EMF spot. Result? Total failure. Examples: Areas without a wifi AP nearby, had other electrical equipment nearby. Areas without electrical equipment nearby or an AP nearby, would be cold or dark. Areas cozy without APs or electrical, then maybe didn't have electrical outlets to plug my computer. Or they had desks with metallic frames below therefore irradiating electrical/magnetical fields directly on the legs. And so on so forth.

When looking for an apartment, it is the same.

Soon taxi drivers, truck drivers, etc. the same with electric cars.

Hospitals and clinics are similar.

You really cannot escape it without paying a huge price, sorry.

What most people in the forum tries to do since it is so pervasive and difficult to escape, is increase the body own natural protection mechanisms.

But trust me, minimizing your exposure to technology feels completely different and brings back a long forgotten magical feeling of the 1990s and early 2000s no matter where you are, whether on a tropical island or in the middle of a big city.
I thought this was because I grew old? haha

I have often seen people both in real life and on this forum saying "Well, I already see 20 WiFi networks from my neighbours, what difference does it makes if I do x and y"
Yes. What difference does it make having a smoke detector 2m in the ceiling or not, if you have 20 or 30 wifis + all the cellphones, IoT devices, Your neighbour's TV in the next apartment separated only by a wall of 40cms, etc. ?

Serious question. Maybe I missed something.

At the same time, others go neurotic about a tablespoon of PUFA in a restaurant meal and they have to carry cocktails of Vitamin E and antioxidants with them
Absolutely!! That is absolutely neurotic and absurd and it is my whole point!!! To not have the PUFA obsession turned into EMF obsession! Or both at the same time!

Avoid biggest PUFA offenses, and do not obsess about if your intake is 2g/day or 3g/day, it doesn't make a difference.

If you want to go down the rabbit hole and see how EMF causes an epidemic of GI disorders - GERD, SIBO, leaky gut, gastroparesis, sluggish liver, endotoxemia etc there's no shortage of literature. There is plenty of evidence that other channels are also influenced, voltage-gated sodium channels, voltage-gated potassium channels and voltage-gated chloride channels.
I have experienced it myself, and way worse things. No need to convince me man :)

But it's not worth wasting time in front of a screen.
How is this even possible for the average person? What kind of job do you have to do to not be either with a screen or with some electronic device nearby?

TL;DR Like with PUFA, I think the goal is to simply remove the biggest offenders and then improve your metabolism so eating 2gr/day PUFA or 8gr/day won't break your health.
 
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Thoth

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Regarding alternatives for computer screens, I was surprised to see that a lot of smart people tried to solve this problem but it can only be mitigated to a certain extent and not eliminated completely. For example people replace the internal SMPS of the monitor with a toroidal DC transformer. Some monitors come with an external power brick and those are easier to customize. Other models run on 12V and have a power brick as well. Those are popular among off gridders and boat owners because they power them directly from batteries. But this only solves half of the problem, and not the panel itself which generates most of the RF.
I haven't tried any e ink monitors yet. ONYX BOOX Mira Pro looks interesting but it costs $1,750 and there is no local dealer in my area in case I want to return it.
There is also eazeye.com (naturally backlit monitor, they have a reddit as well) and sunvisiondisplay.com - ultralow power, color reflective LCD.
The projector can be an alternative if done properly. Richard H. Conrad from conradbiologic.com has some good articles on low EMF computing and he creates custom setups based on projectors.
You can also use incandescents or halogens as backlight for the monitor. The video below is such an example:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRu64YLXaH8


I did this to an old monitor using incandescents and it is many, many times more comfortable to look at than LEDs. It feels/looks very natural. Colors look beautiful too (100 CRI). I could use the computer for a much longer time without feeling uncomfortable/stressed. I used 4 or 5 40w incandescents I think, but you can probably get away with just 100w depending on the LCD transparency, though it wouldnt be as bright. The reason why I am not currently using it is because its not a 16:9 monitor and its sitting in a cardboard box (kind of falling apart ), since I havent built a proper enclosure for it yet..
 

ThinPicking

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Arrived here from @joaquin thread. Seems fairer to comment here and bump it.

I haven't had time to read through the whole thing and won't be able to find it for a little while. Apologies if this has already been suggested. Perhaps it's not so much the "electrosensitivity" but the simple act of deferral to more direct/human means of communication to exchange information and something else that's harder to define, that brings the greatest benefits to our condition.

I'm an "IT" worker and can say beyond a shadow of any doubt. There's no substitute for a heartful chat that's free of distraction. The longer I don't instigate, the harder it can be to get back. The notion may help those who can't escape being present with electronics. It may be as simple as turning our attention away from them and on to human beings.

I'm reminded again of your excellent video (and t-shirt) Mr @Sitaruîm.
 

purple pill

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There is no placebo. Just 1 night is enough for anyone to notice it and the benefits are cumulative. If you do it for a month (including daytime hygiene as well), it will be the most shocking thing you will have experienced in almost two decades.
If you take a nap during the day, turn it off for that 1 hour.
If you turn off all breakers including the refrigerator it will be even better, because all wires start out very close together at the panel and they will pick up the signal from the live one. Food won't go bad during those 6 or 7 hours while you sleep it will stay cold enough.
But one of the most important things is to get rid of the smartphone. Get a dumb phone for calls and keep the smartphone away from your body at all times, except for when you really need to access the internet. You can get an iPhone mini for example and carry it with you but keep it shut down 90% of the time and turn it on only when needed, minimize exposure as much as possible.
Thanks... do need a new phone soon will do research (need phone for work unfortunately but can definitely cut down usage) is the iphone mini particularly better emf wise or just less "smart"? Any thoughts on the electrical systems in cars i.e alternators 12-14v systems, safer than household im guessin? I have an old classic car with pretty basic electrical system unlike modern ones with a dozen modules conected by a can-bus system, always feel better driving this than any other. Thanks.
 
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miquelangeles

miquelangeles

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Thanks... do need a new phone soon will do research (need phone for work unfortunately but can definitely cut down usage) is the iphone mini particularly better emf wise or just less "smart"? Any thoughts on the electrical systems in cars i.e alternators 12-14v systems, safer than household im guessin? I have an old classic car with pretty basic electrical system unlike modern ones with a dozen modules conected by a can-bus system, always feel better driving this than any other. Thanks.

The iPhone mini is not particularly good EMF wise, no smartphone is.
I just gave it as an example because it's more compact and high performance at the same time. If you're gonna use it for very short periods of time it better be a fast and pleasant experience. But you can achieve the same with older and cheaper smartphones. Although not very old ones, because most apps now require a minimum version of the operating system. The idea is to not be in close contact with the smartphone for more than a few minutes at a time because it entrains the nervous system, disturbs all the biological clocks and subtle fields through which all cells and organs communicate & a lot more.
If your work involves a computer, you can create a lower EMF computing setup and make sure you take breaks every hour, as well as limit total exposure time as much as you can. A low EMF computing setup will also allow you to reduce your smartphone usage to almost zero.
Older classic cars are better, I don't think it's a concern unless you spend most of the day driving.
In general you need to use the "whitelist" approach, meaning you remove everything and add back only what's strictly necessary into your life and evaluate each thing separately.
Electrosmog is a pervasive presence everywhere nowadays and things you wouldn't have imagined can cause dramatic effects from behavior to physiology and protein expression. Drinking a glass of PUFA is a walk in the park compared to this.
 

purple pill

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The iPhone mini is not particularly good EMF wise, no smartphone is.
I just gave it as an example because it's more compact and high performance at the same time. If you're gonna use it for very short periods of time it better be a fast and pleasant experience. But you can achieve the same with older and cheaper smartphones. Although not very old ones, because most apps now require a minimum version of the operating system. The idea is to not be in close contact with the smartphone for more than a few minutes at a time because it entrains the nervous system, disturbs all the biological clocks and subtle fields through which all cells and organs communicate & a lot more.
If your work involves a computer, you can create a lower EMF computing setup and make sure you take breaks every hour, as well as limit total exposure time as much as you can. A low EMF computing setup will also allow you to reduce your smartphone usage to almost zero.
Older classic cars are better, I don't think it's a concern unless you spend most of the day driving.
In general you need to use the "whitelist" approach, meaning you remove everything and add back only what's strictly necessary into your life and evaluate each thing separately.
Electrosmog is a pervasive presence everywhere nowadays and things you wouldn't have imagined can cause dramatic effects from behavior to physiology and protein expression. Drinking a glass of PUFA is a walk in the park compared to this.
Thanks for the info. Luckily my work doesnt involve computers, i mostly work in empty houses doing decorating which is pretty great emf wise, always find the empty ones with the power switched off more enjoyable to work, never really thought about it much but guess this could the reason why 🤯
 
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Great thread man, really appreciate the time and detail you put into it. Im going to try this when I go camping soon. You said you lived on an island? How did you put yourself in that position?
 

Medvedev

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Fascinating post! Eye-opening. Always knew EMF is detrimental, however not THAT devastating!

Is AM tuner an optimal tool for emf detection or there is a need for more, like specialised emf meters (trifield tf2 for example)? Sorry if I missed that in your post, bad english.
 
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David PS

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Fascinating post! Eye-opening. Always knew EMF is detrimental, however not THAT devastating!

Is AM tuner optimal tool for emf detection or there is a need for more, like specialised emf meters (trifield tf2 for example). Sorry if I missed that in your post, bad english.

I use an AM-FM radio and it works fine. I do not need to use a special meter that displays a number indicating size of the EMF. I know the hot spots where I live and I try to minimize my EMF exposure.

When I am traveling, I use headphones with my AM-FM radio. It helps me located the safest place to sit and the noise from the AM radio does not disturb others.
 

Makrosky

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I use an AM-FM radio and it works fine. I do not need to use a special meter that displays a number indicating size of the EMF. I know the hot spots where I live and I try to minimize my EMF exposure.

When I am traveling, I use headphones with my AM-FM radio. It helps me located the safest place to sit and the noise from the AM radio does not disturb others.
But this works for RF fields, not for electrical or magnetical, right?

In other words, it will help to pick up WiFis etc. but not an electricity cable behind your pillow.
 

David PS

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But this works for RF fields, not for electrical or magnetical, right?

In other words, it will help to pick up WiFis etc. but not an electricity cable behind your pillow.
Thank you
 

David PS

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It was a question lol
I am traveling today and I responded too quicikly. The AM radio also starts ticking like a Geiger counter from dirty electricity. Using a dimmer switch to dim the lights changes everything.
 

purple pill

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I am traveling today and I responded too quicikly. The AM radio also starts ticking like a Geiger counter from dirty electricity. Using a dimmer switch to dim the lights changes everything.
hi David, could you elaborate on the dimmer switches, i recently installed one in my living room to control an incandescent but was thinking about switching back to normal.
 

Peater

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hi David, could you elaborate on the dimmer switches, i recently installed one in my living room to control an incandescent but was thinking about switching back to normal.
What type of dimming? Leading edge, trailing edge, TRIAC, resistive?

OK a slightly smart-**** reply but there is more to dimming than it being GOOD or BAD. For an incandescent lamp you probably want resistive as it doesn't chop the AC waveform up to achieve the dimmer light.
 

purple pill

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What type of dimming? Leading edge, trailing edge, TRIAC, resistive?

OK a slightly smart-**** reply but there is more to dimming than it being GOOD or BAD. For an incandescent lamp you probably want resistive as it doesn't chop the AC waveform up to achieve the dimmer light
Would have been trailing or leading edge, they were the only two options i could find at the time, both seem to work pretty similar in operation with chopping waveforms so just went with the cheapest of the 2. Ill check out resistive dimmers, thanks
 

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