Nothing Boring About Boron

[Sativa]

maybe im wreckless but I'm not too concerned about the hormone issues.

just keep in mind that there are some people out there who will take your words/advice seriously, and might not have the foresight to realise their body chemistry isn't like yours, thus might cause themselves issues. So it's for the sake of these people that caution must be exemplified lol!!!
Not everyone is as well prepared as you I guess! (re your strategic use of asp/MB/apig etc)
/offtopic
Some people even come here claiming finasteride/metaformin is their wonder drug whilst agreeing pufa's are undesirable. flip-floppy ignorance lol

 

[Inaut]

oh and i forgot, i take zinc so we can add that to the list of AI....

anyways, @Sativa good points. I'm glad you are commenting on these issues/concerns. Doing the lawd's work

 

[Sativa]

oh and i forgot, i take zinc so we can add that to the list of AI....

also, re Zinc, it has amphetamine-like pharmacological properties, notably re the Dopamine transporter (like amphetamine, it reverses it under certain conditions!), which for some people can be psychoactive or nausea-inducing... Zinc also has NMDA antagonism properties, aka glutamate blocking, a property shared with Magnesium; Ketamine; Agmatine; Laughing gas etc.

I would use Zinc in my psychoactive mixes, if i wanted to add a serious Dopamine kick lol! Otherwise, any of the psychoactive essential oils are good, combined with Agmatine or Niacin ... maybe some caffeine for an extra dopamine synergy!

I'm glad you are commenting on these issues/concerns. Doing the lawd's work

I'm probably saying what Travis or Haidut might think, assuming they read the same words lol.
But also, i'm just interpreting & perceiving words from the perspective of others whom I know lack strategic foresight & experience.
Once, when i was more impressionable & naive, I did paleo/keto just for the hell of it... wth?

 

[Mossy]

I reckon Methylene Blue is probably a lot cheaper. I bought 10g pure powder for a minor amount of £6 ($7.5)... since a max dose is 1mg... that's 10,000 doses; pretty dam cheap lol!

At first I was going to agree, but thought well, why don’t I do the math. If I’m doing it correctly, boron via Borax is over 3x as cheap! A box of Borax for me is about $6. At 65 oz ( 1.84kg), that’s 386 teaspoons (by weight); at 100, 3mg doses per tsp, that’s 38,600 doses! Somebody correct me if I’m missing the obvious.

Oh, this is a good time to ask: are people measuring the tsp by weight or volume? If by volume, that dose per box just about doubles.

 

[Mossy]

Yes, I haven't noticed any issues, but I would suggest going low and slow since it seems to affect hormones (controversial as to good or bad). The studies show it can raise free testosterone and estrogen, so I would be careful with real high doses and pay attention to how it is effecting you.

Yes. Good advice. That definitely is my approach, as I am off-the-charts sensitive to most supplements. Using Borax is actually my attempt to supplement boron without the side effects (poor sleep and feeling off) that the official supplement gives me.

 

[Sativa]

If I’m doing it correctly, boron via Borax is over 3x as cheap! A box of Bora x for me is about $6. At 65 oz ( 1.84kg), that’s 386 teaspoons (by weight); at 100, 3mg doses per tsp, that’s 38,600 doses!

dam! even if I halve the MB dose to 500mcg, MB still wouldn't be as cheap as borax lol. I think i got 1kg of borax years ago for <i cant remember how much>.
Perhaps if the MB dose was 50mcg (low end recommended by Peat), THEN it would work out cheaper? lets see lol.
10g = 10,000,000 micrograms
10,000,000 / 50 = 200,000 doses (> 38,600!) of 50mcg costing $0.0000375 per dose

 

[Mossy]

dam! even if I halve the MB dose to 500mcg, MB still wouldn't be as cheap as borax lol. I think i got 1kg of borax years ago for <i cant remember how much>.
Perhaps if the MB dose was 50mcg (low end recommended by Peat), THEN it would work out cheaper? lets see lol.
10g = 10,000,000 micrograms
10,000,000 / 50 = 200,000 doses (> 38,600!) of 50mcg costing $0.0000375 per dose

Haha...you got me!

 

[Sativa]

Haha...you got me!

I was also factoring in the fact the Peat positively mentions MB as a viable route, where-as mention of Boron is not as prolific.
It seems Boron has as valid a place as a supplement as Calcium or Magnesium.
MB is more of an 'adjunct', yet clearly has highly relevant pro-metabolic & rejuvenating properties... which is why i got 10g of it

btw, here's a paper on boron-deficient soils, the effect on foods grown in them, and consequences on the local population. There seems to be a fairly clear link!

Agricultural practices affect arthritis.
Abstract
It has been suggested that boron deficiency in food may be a cause of some arthritis (Newnham 1979). Epidemiological studies were done to try to ascertain why some countries have more or less arthritis than other countries. Jamaica, Mauritius, Fiji and Israel were visited with a view to ascertaining the boron levels of locally consumed food as it was suspected that excessive use of soluble chemical fertilizers had damaged the soils of the sugar producing lands. Food grown on these soils were found to have low boron levels. By contrast the foods consumed in Israel had high boron concentrations associated with a low incidence of arthritis. South African work has shown that people who eat mostly maize have more arthritis when eating processed maize grown with fertilizer. Brief reference is made to the role of boron in human diets. There are bound to be geographical differences in dietary boron, but even in the USA levels have dropped considerably in 50 years. Arthritis is increasing, especially juvenile arthritis. The increased use of fertilizers and genetic selection of plants has led to a wide range of changes in the quality of foodstuffs and their nutrient content. The identification of the parallel loss of boron may reflect vital changes in trace elements and other nutrients.

 

[Mossy]

I was also factoring in the fact the Peat positively mentions MB as a viable route, where-as mention of Boron is not as prolific.
It seems Boron has as valid a place as a supplement, as Calcium or Magnesium though.
MB is more of an 'adjunct', yet clearly has highly relevant pro-metabolic & rejuvenating properties... which is why i got 10g of it

MB is next on my list, though there is talk that it can increase serotonin. So, I’m hesitant.

 

[Blossom]

I was also factoring in the fact the Peat positively mentions MB as a viable route, where-as mention of Boron is not as prolific.
It seems Boron has as valid a place as a supplement as Calcium or Magnesium.
MB is more of an 'adjunct', yet clearly has highly relevant pro-metabolic & rejuvenating properties... which is why i got 10g of it

btw, here's a paper on boron-deficient soils, the effect on foods grown in them, and consequences on the local population. There seems to be a fairly clear link!

Agricultural practices affect arthritis.
Abstract
It has been suggested that boron deficiency in food may be a cause of some arthritis (Newnham 1979). Epidemiological studies were done to try to ascertain why some countries have more or less arthritis than other countries. Jamaica, Mauritius, Fiji and Israel were visited with a view to ascertaining the boron levels of locally consumed food as it was suspected that excessive use of soluble chemical fertilizers had damaged the soils of the sugar producing lands. Food grown on these soils were found to have low boron levels. By contrast the foods consumed in Israel had high boron concentrations associated with a low incidence of arthritis. South African work has shown that people who eat mostly maize have more arthritis when eating processed maize grown with fertilizer. Brief reference is made to the role of boron in human diets. There are bound to be geographical differences in dietary boron, but even in the USA levels have dropped considerably in 50 years. Arthritis is increasing, especially juvenile arthritis. The increased use of fertilizers and genetic selection of plants has led to a wide range of changes in the quality of foodstuffs and their nutrient content. The identification of the parallel loss of boron may reflect vital changes in trace elements and other nutrients.

Thanks!

 

[Sativa]

MB is next on my list, though there is talk that it can increase serotonin. So, I’m hesitant.

MB is an MAO-A inhibitor, especially in higher doses. I plan to take around 10-50mcg which is a minute dose, way below the top end of 1mg (aka 1000mcg - significantly less)

Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) inhibit the action of MAO enzymes, resulting in increased concentrations of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine.
In other words, MAO enzymes are responsible for breaking down serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine.
Less MAO enzymes = more of these Neurotransmitters

Common MAOI's include - turmeric, black pepper (weak). cloves (weak).
Also, the flavonoids quercetin & apigenin have MAOI activity; implying German Chamomile, Celery & Parsley with their high apigenin content, contribute MAOI properties.
Tobacco also contains some MAO-inhibitors, which contributes to it's 'addictive' potential.

 

[Mossy]

MB is an MAO-A inhibitor, especially in higher doses. I plan to take around 10-50mcg which is a minute dose, way below the top end of 1mg (aka 1000mcg - significantly less)

Common MAOI's include - turmeric, black pepper (weak). cloves (weak).
Also, the flavonoids quercetin & apigenin have MAOI activity; implying German Chamomile, Celery & Parsley with their high apigenin content, contribute MAOI properties.
Tobacco also contains some MAO-inhibitors, which contributes to it's 'addictive' potential.

Thanks for the info. I’ll no doubt start very slow.

 

[LLight]

Assessing the boron nutritional status by analyzing its cummulative frequency distribution in... - Abstract - Europe PMC

"The adequate reference range for hair boron concentration was (μg∙g-1) 0.771- 6.510 for men and distinctly lower 0.472-3.89 for women"

"Thermodynamically, these results indicate the existence of a sex dependent boron multisite and cooperative binding allosteric ligand in the hair follicular cells [32]." <- not sure how to understand that, but that piqued my interest.

"Apparently men are more tolerable to
the hair boron accumulation than women."

"In the case of boron it is interesting that the hair boron of a two month infant con-
tained ten time more boron than the hair of her adult mother whose hair boron concentration was within the normal range study [34]." <- also seems interesting.

High vitamin D is associated with high Calcium and no Boron (in hair) – June 2017 |

"This hair analysis graph is of someone who has a history of taking vitamin D3 supplements. For me, it’s pretty obvious without even knowing this due to the high calcium, low potassium, and low boron on their hair analysis report. And this pattern isn’t an isolated incident; it’s a pattern that I see in 75-80% of my hair analysis clients!"

Finally, if I'm not mistaken, Ketoconazole/Nizoral is an antifungal (like boron) which is used for hair loss.

 

[Candeias]

Assessing the boron nutritional status by analyzing its cummulative frequency distribution in... - Abstract - Europe PMC

"The adequate reference range for hair boron concentration was (μg∙g-1) 0.771- 6.510 for men and distinctly lower 0.472-3.89 for women"

"Thermodynamically, these results indicate the existence of a sex dependent boron multisite and cooperative binding allosteric ligand in the hair follicular cells [32]." <- not sure how to understand that, but that piqued my interest.

"Apparently men are more tolerable to
the hair boron accumulation than women."

"In the case of boron it is interesting that the hair boron of a two month infant con-
tained ten time more boron than the hair of her adult mother whose hair boron concentration was within the normal range study [34]." <- also seems interesting.

High vitamin D is associated with high Calcium and no Boron (in hair) – June 2017 |

"This hair analysis graph is of someone who has a history of taking vitamin D3 supplements. For me, it’s pretty obvious without even knowing this due to the high calcium, low potassium, and low boron on their hair analysis report. And this pattern isn’t an isolated incident; it’s a pattern that I see in 75-80% of my hair analysis clients!"

Finally, if I'm not mistaken, Ketoconazole/Nizoral is an antifungal (like boron) which is used for hair loss.

I've read some reports from women that Boron caused hair loss, but I don't know where it fits in all of this.

 

[LLight]

I've read some reports from women that Boron caused hair loss, but I don't know where it fits in all of this.

I saw one or two people saying that it helped their hair, on Amazon customers' review, for what it's worth:

"This is my third bottle, taking as directed. This is strange but at about two months new hair started growing where bald spots have been for well over 20 years. It's still filling in. I don't know if it is the Ionic Boron or not, but that is the only thing I did different. I don' care if I have hair on top or not.
I am a 71 year old male. Strange."

"My knees hardly ever hurt when climbing stairs. My hair is thicker, and grows faster. My nails are thicker, no breaking."

"ive noticed hairs growing on my head where it was previously bald"

Or as you said:
"I gave it 5 stars because the item arrived in good shape. I had to stop taking it as it made my hair fall out, I mean in clumps! After researching it appears that lots of ppl have this problem with Boron."

 

[Amazoniac]

- Boron—Essential To Ray Peat Health?

"Vitamin D is not the only bioactive steroid whose metabolism appears to be influenced by nutritional intakes of boron – several reports indicate that 17b-estradiol concentrations increase when boron in supplemented [18–21]. Notably, this effect is seen in post-menopausal women receiving hormone replacement therapy – suggesting that a reduction in estradiol catabolism (rather than synthesis) is responsible. The major routes of estradiol catabolism each involve introduction of a vicinal hydroxyl group – hydroxylations at the 2,4, or 16 position of 17b-estradiol, which is hydroxylated at the 3 and 17 positions. This raises the interesting possibility that boron may be a potent inhibitor for a range of microsomal enzymes which catalyze the insertion of hydroxyl groups vicinal to existing hydroxyl groups in steroids – specific examples being 24-hydroxylase and the estradiol hydroxylases."​

<U+1F344>

 

[Amazoniac]

- Boron containing compounds promote the survival and the maintenance of pancreatic β-cells

Diabetes mellitus is worldwide disease. The life of diabetic patients are dependent on exogenous insulin. Pancreas or particularly islet transplantations are performed for reducing external insulin dependency. External substances are also used to protect the β-cells from the death or increase insulin secretion. In the current study, two different boron containing compounds (sodium pentaborate pentahydrate-NaB and boric acid-BA) were investigated for their effect on pancreatic cells in terms of pro-apoptotic and anti-apoptotic markers, genes related to insulin production mechanism, pancreatic development and glucose metabolism, some antioxidant enzymes, and genes for the initiation of diabetes, insulin secretion and antioxidant enzyme activities in vitro. The results revealed that boron containing compounds did not lead to apoptosis. On the contrary, they increased cell viability, antioxidant enzyme activities and the level of genes related to insulin production. Overall evaluation, data in the current study showed that boron containing compounds might be promising therapeutic agents for type 1 diabetes. However, additional investigations are strictly needed to elucidate molecular mechanisms of boron containing compounds.

 

[Amazoniac]

- The Fructoborates: Part of a Family of Naturally Occurring Sugar–Borate Complexes—Biochemistry, Physiology, and Impact on Human Health: a Review (!)

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Eat your raisins and prunes kids!

 

[LLight]

Boron Modulates the Barrier Function, Antioxidant Activity, and Epithelial Cell Proliferation in Rat Jejunum.

We have explored the effect of boron in drinking water on the microstructure, mechanical barrier, immune barrier, antioxidant activity, and cell proliferation in rat jejunum. The treatment resulted in a significant increase in the jejunum villi height and ratio of villus height to crypt depth compared to the control group. The results showed that the jejunum villi height and ratio of villus height to crypt depth of the rats in experimental groups IV and V significantly increased compared with the control group (P &lt; 0.05 or P &lt; 0.01). Furthermore, boron treatment resulted in a significant increase in the number of rat jejunum goblet cells, intraepithelial lymphocyte and proliferating cell nuclear antigen positive cells as well as the concentration of secretory immunoglobulin A along with increased activity or content of total superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, and total antioxidant capacity. However, there was a decrease in expression of these markers in rats receiving the highest dosage of boron (640 mg/L). The results show that supplementing drinking water with low doses of boron could improve the microstructure of rat jejunum, enhance mucosal immunity, mechanical barrier function, and antioxidant activity, and promote cell proliferation.