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Nothing Boring About Boron

Dave Clark

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@Inaut, I believe I found the high dose supplement he was referring to in the video. It’s too bad it has silica.
Hakala Research BoroTab We specialize in providing easy and efficient urinary Iodine testing.
Like Inaut said, use the borax if you were looking at the Hakala tabs, they're basically the same thing, one is sodium tetraborate and the other is potassium tetraborate. No silica in borax. Mix one teaspoon of borax in one liter of water for a concentrate, then one teaspoon of that concentrate is about 3 mg of boron.
 

Blossom

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Like Inaut said, use the borax if you were looking at the Hakala tabs, they're basically the same thing, one is sodium tetraborate and the other is potassium tetraborate. No silica in borax. Mix one teaspoon of borax in one liter of water for a concentrate, then one teaspoon of that concentrate is about 3 mg of boron.
Thank you so much Dave.
 

Mossy

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Like Inaut said, use the borax if you were looking at the Hakala tabs, they're basically the same thing, one is sodium tetraborate and the other is potassium tetraborate. No silica in borax. Mix one teaspoon of borax in one liter of water for a concentrate, then one teaspoon of that concentrate is about 3 mg of boron.
A liter has about 200 teaspoons (5ml each tsp). I’d be curious to know if people are storing this prepped solution in the refrigerator and using it until finished, or making fresh daily and discarding any excess.
 

Dave Clark

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A liter has about 200 teaspoons (5ml each tsp). I’d be curious to know if people are storing this prepped solution in the refrigerator and using it until finished, or making fresh daily and discarding any excess.
The instructions from every source I have read says to make the concentrate and store it in the fridge. Make a new batch when needed, but store concentrate in fridge. I believe that the reason for that is maybe because the Ph is high and not stable at room temperatures.
 

Jam

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I simply take a tiny pinch of borax (which I've learned to "dose" correctly after weighing the pinches on a digital scale) out of a jar and dump it into a glass of oj every morning. Each pinch is roughly 50mg, or approx. 5-6mg boron.
 

Goobz

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So can you just buy normal borax and take it internally? Sounds dubious to me but that may be because in Aus borax is a cleaning product in the chemical section.

A quick google came up with

“In Australia the use of Borax internally is illegal. Borax can be added to bath water, foot soaks and used for a variety of cleaning purposes, such as Clothes Washing, Bathroom and Kitchen cleaning, a Mould inhibitor and an insecticide to name a few.”

But apparently you can buy a cleaner version from food stores so obviously people are doing that, and the above is just a disclaimer.

Are there toxic cleaning product versions to watch out for?
 

Mossy

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The instructions from every source I have read says to make the concentrate and store it in the fridge. Make a new batch when needed, but store concentrate in fridge. I believe that the reason for that is maybe because the Ph is high and not stable at room temperatures.
Thank you. That is good to know. I would imagine after a while it would have to be tossed, but it’s good to know it can be done. My store bought boron is 6 mg a dose—so, I couldn’t imagine keeping that mixture for 50-100 days. I realize people are taking more mgs a day, but I’m anticipating I won’t be able to handle a lot. The 6mg capsule gives me sleep trouble.
 

Dave Clark

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Thank you. That is good to know. I would imagine after a while it would have to be tossed, but it’s good to know it can be done. My store bought boron is 6 mg a dose—so, I couldn’t imagine keeping that mixture for 50-100 days. I realize people are taking more mgs a day, but I’m anticipating I won’t be able to handle a lot. The 6mg capsule gives me sleep trouble.
I doing rough math here, but there are about 99 teaspoons in a liter of concentrate, so at 6 mg/day = two teaspoons, your concentrate would last about 47 days. It certainly won't go bad in the fridge. Mine last about a month and a half with no issues. I may not be 100 % accurate on the math, but my point is it won't go bad at that dosage/day.
 

Sativa

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I played with Boron years ago, as part of a 'stack' to recalibrate and boost my production of steroidal hormones.
Just did some quick searching using keywords "boron steroidogenesis":

The significance of dietary boron, with particular reference to athletes.
Abstract
...
Boron is a trace element nutrient, and recently its supplements have been shown to increase the concentration of plasma steroid hormones. In a single blind cross-over trial, it resulted in a significant increase in plasma 17-B estradiol (E2) concentration (P < 0.004) and there was a trend for plasma testosterone (T) levels to be increased. The ratio of E2/T increased significantly. However, there was no perturbation in plasma lipids. Furthermore, the effect of boron on steroidogenesis and its mechanism was also investigated in two more studies conducted on adult male rats. The elevation of endogenous steroid hormones as a result of boron supplementation suggest that boron may be used as an ergogenic safe substance for athletes which should be further investigated.
 

Dave Clark

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This has got to be one of the most confusing minerals to get info on and figure out. For every source that says it raises estrogen another says it lowers it. Some say it raises testosterone and lowers estrogen, some say it raises both. Most sites say it is needed for proper thyroid function, etc., another said it could be a goitrogen. I guess this falls into the love/hate thing like vitamin A. don't know what to think about boron, but I until there is a consensus of what it really is and does, I am keeping my ingestion conservative.
 

Sativa

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This has got to be one of the most confusing minerals to get info on and figure out. ...
don't know what to think about boron, but I until there is a consensus of what it really is and does, I am keeping my ingestion conservative.

To clarify this area for anyone reading this comment:

An experienced and knowledgeable user on this form called Travis has given his detailed & methodical insights into Boron's biological role. According to him, it is safe in small doses, and is actually less toxic than salt - aka sodium chloride.
Boron has a beneficial effect on Calcium and Magnesium retention, and also benefits steroidogenesis, as already explained in this thread. Since it apparently increases cholesterol, this would likely have a positive impact on all downstream substances, including progesterone.
But, it is better not to make hasty assumptions. If you are in a state of imbalance, perhaps boron is best avoided, or dosed at TINY amounts, eg 1-3mg.

A good starting dose range would be 1-10mg, preferably with food
.
Quote from Travis:
Boric acid, borate, fructoborate, and benzoxaboroles cannot be considered selectively estrogenic when the increase both sex steroids proportionally. These are sex-neutral compounds, likely stimulators of de novo steroid synthesis. I suppose boron can be considered 'highly estrogenic' should a person focus entirely on female studies determining only estradiol, remaining completely oblivious to the corresponding cholesterol and testosterone increases observed in both males and females. Since boron compounds don't favor one sex hormone over the other, it would be far more appropriate simply to consider them 'steroidogenic' in high doses."
 

LLight

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Interactions between dietary boron and thiamine affect lipid metabolism (Interactions between dietary boron and thiamine affect lipid metabolism (Conference) | OSTI.GOV):

"An experiment was designed to test the hypothesis that dietary boron impacts upon the function of various coenzymes involved in energy metabolism. In a 2x7 factorially-arranged experiment, weanling, vitamin D3-deprived rats were fed a ground corn-casein-corn oil based diet supplemented with 0 or 2 mg boron/kg and 50% of the requirement for thiamine (TM), riboflavin (RF), pantothenic acid (PA) or pyridoxine (PX); 0% for folic acid (FA) or nicotinic acid (NA). All vitamins were supplemented in adequate amounts in the control diet. At 8 weeks of age, the TM dietary treatment was the one most affected by supplemental dietary boron (SDB). In rats that were fed 50% TM, SDB increased plasma concentrations of triglyceride (TG) and activity of alanine transaminase (ALT), and the liver to body weight (L/B) ratio. However, in the SDB animals, adequate amounts of TM decreased the means of those variables to near that observed in non-SDB rats fed 50% TM. The findings suggest that an interaction between dietary boron and TM affects lipid metabolism."

This seems to suggest that rats should be sure they have sufficient thiamine in their diet if they supplement with boron.
 
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Inaut

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Another thing to note and I think this applies to all supplements but specifically to boron/borax...that is......(drum roll please).......taking days off.

I think 5 days on, two days off is an ideal way to take borax. Not really backed by facts, just my own opinion and what I’ve read in the past. It allows the body to dispose of the extra boron.
 

Blossom

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Another thing to note and I think this applies to all supplements but specifically to boron/borax...that is......(drum roll please).......taking days off.

I think 5 days on, two days off is an ideal way to take borax. Not really backed by facts, just my own opinion and what I’ve read in the past. It allows the body to dispose of the extra boron.
I just found a good YouTube video that mentions that as well.
 

Sativa

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I think 5 days on, two days off is an ideal way to take borax. Not really backed by facts, just my own opinion and what I’ve read in the past.
Perhaps a more strategic, safer & methodical general approach to introducing new agents, is to first take a small amount and wait 2-5 days, in case there is an unexpected delayed effect.
Then, assuming all is well, a small dose every 2 days - then another break to ensure there are no unexpected delayed cumulative effects.
From then, dosing every other day with breaks of 2-3 days might be best; alternatively as you suggest, dosing every day with a break.

Starting small & dosing in a strategic & methodical ensures avoidance of undesirable cumulative effects which might be regretted etc...
 

Mossy

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I doing rough math here, but there are about 99 teaspoons in a liter of concentrate, so at 6 mg/day = two teaspoons, your concentrate would last about 47 days. It certainly won't go bad in the fridge. Mine last about a month and a half with no issues. I may not be 100 % accurate on the math, but my point is it won't go bad at that dosage/day.
Yes, based on the prior numbers I’d say your math is correct—which is why I rounded up to 100, or 50 if I double the dose. That is very helpful, though, to know that you have used it for a month and a half with no issues. Thank you. This may be the cheapest supplement to date.
 

Sativa

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This may be the cheapest supplement to date

I reckon Methylene Blue is probably a lot cheaper. I bought 10g pure powder for a minor amount of £6 ($7.5)... since a max dose is 1mg... that's 10,000 doses; pretty dam cheap lol!
 

Dave Clark

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Yes, based on the prior numbers I’d say your math is correct—which is why I rounded up to 100, or 50 if I double the dose. That is very helpful, though, to know that you have used it for a month and a half with no issues. Thank you. This may be the cheapest supplement to date.
Yes, I haven't noticed any issues, but I would suggest going low and slow since it seems to affect hormones (controversial as to good or bad). The studies show it can raise free testosterone and estrogen, so I would be careful with real high doses and pay attention to how it is effecting you.
 

Frankdee20

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Does anybody remember what form of Boron the studies cited ? I do not care if I grow ***s, I want to try this again.
 

Inaut

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maybe im wreckless but I'm not too concerned about the hormone issues. I take mild aromatase inhibitors like aspirin, mb, apigenin from chamomile and parsley. I do agree that i should probably lower my dosage which i have done. i feel good using borax in the morning with baking soda and msm (first drink of the morning before hitting the shower)
 

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