Not Doing Well On High Fruit | Juice Intake

marmolx

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
7
@GreekDemiGod

Hey dude. I've actually been thinking about you a bit and how we can tackle what's going on.

Here's my big piece of advice: it's time to get off the forum. I think you're looking at important stuff on this forum, for sure, but I also think you're missing the really important parts of Ray's ideas and the best illustration is Tyler's awesome success story. I believe that you're making yourself neurotic and that's creating real but artificial problems.

Firstly, let's start with diet. Your familiarity with the extra resources I threw at you suggest that you're actually about as knowledgeable about diet as it's possible to get. You could look at Kate Deering's How To Heal Your Metabolism, if you're looking for a simpler book based on Ray Peat's work (I think it's going for cents on Amazon). There’s also Tim Berzins on YouTube. Christopher Walker's T raising diet is basically eat more carbs, moderate protein and moderate fat (he prefers potatoes instead of sugar) but the rest of the principles are almost exactly the same as Peat's.

I agree with you on ditching the IF if you feel like it's not worth your time or doesn't give you a particular edge. To me, carb cycling is too complex even if the research is good. What I want to address is: you know all you need to achieve the goals you want. Seriously. In terms of diet, I would say stick to the Peat basics but **** calorie counting, macro tracking or any of that crap. If you really need to track anything, weigh yourself in the morning, average each week and keep average a reasonable +.2-3kg per month. I think ditch the supplements for a few months and just pump the food.

This leads into my real point. I've followed what you've been writing and have seen that what's really bothering you is anhedonia and libido issues. Are you able to quantify what you think an appropriate libido is? To me, it sounds like you've worked yourself into a bit of a head prison. I'm going out on a limb, but it seems like maybe you've been struggling with this kind of existential loneliness that's preventing you from really "being there"? I think the RPF is doubling down on that problem. The forum is a great resource, but the hook of it is neuroticism. It's IUs; vitamin Xs; "if you eat two pastured eggs you'll be ok, but if you eat three free range you've ****88 it", that kind of hectic food isolation, etc.

I think your instincts are good and you should trust them to a degree. You mentioned in another post how you're feeling like the only things you can reach for are cocaine and sex. Both are dopamine-drive activities, definitely. On this forum, the population is always going to speak in terms of serotonin, dopamine and chemical balance because that's the purview of their interest and investigation. But it also looks to me like both of those activities also focus on connection and shared experience with other people. Obviously, drug abuse is bad and sensibility should be applied there and, as an aside, there's also a strong negative undercurrent toward sex on the forum.

Which leads me to the big missed and potentially most effective point of Tyler's story. He drastically shifted his life environment to a stimulating environment. "I changed my diet and picked up an occupation that put me in the sun and in a natural environment (commercial fishing)." I don't know if you've seen the TV shows about commercial fishing, but it's an intense gig. I'm not recommending you copy him exactly, but I'm highlighting that maybe you could take the principle and apply it. My recommendation would be pick up physical, outdoor hobby that involves you in a group of people: rock climbing, sailing, orienteering, kayaking, fishing, scuba-diving, BJJ/Muay Thai/boxing (not outside but meets the other requirements), archery, HEMA, LARPing, paintball, football, tennis, hiking and camping, whatever you can imagine! Towards the end of Tyler's time on the forum, he had dropped almost all of his supplements except for NDT. I think his vanishing from the community is telling too.

I think this kind of attitudinal shift would support your goals for muscle growth too. Simply going to the gym to "gain muscle" is too vague and masturbatory. It's a treadmill. Even competitive bodybuilders have competition and a mindset for specific growth in specific areas, you know what I mean? If your muscle building becomes supporting, you might experience a different kind of drive. I don't think you can have a great libido and zest for life if you're suppressed into living a shame-based life.

Ultimately, I think healing your "heart" is the right direction and removing yourself from sort of neurotic online community and investing into real life support networks and a stimulating life is the best call. To my mind, the belief that you must be fixed before you begin will keep you trapped and you will never start which is what I mean when I say shame-based - ie not being good enough. Obsession with the forum seems to be a kind of manifested learned helplessness. I think you've got all the tools and instincts to get exactly where you want. You say you're feeling flat and asexual, but you have the remaining willpower and effort to at least bring you here to solve it and I think you should use that resource to propel you out.

If only as an experiment for yourself, you can always come back after a self imposed three month break. Someone rightly pointed out that if Ray Peat's diet supports him at his age, why should it be any different for a young man. I agree and misrepresented myself. I should have said that you can afford to not be as pedantic as Ray obviously must be. He's at an advanced age - classic cars take more maintenance, you've got the new engine and you should be driving it before you start getting precious about keeping it mint condition.
 
Last edited:

somuch4food

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
1,281
@GreekDemiGod

Hey dude. I've actually been thinking about you a bit and how we can tackle what's going on.

Here's my big piece of advice: it's time to get off the forum. I think you're looking at important stuff on this forum, for sure, but I also think you're missing the really important parts of Ray's ideas and the best illustration is Tyler's awesome success story. I also believe that you're making yourself neurotic and that's creating real but artificial problems.

Firstly, let's start with diet. Your familiarity with the extra resources I threw at you suggest that you're actually about as knowledgeable about diet as it's possible to get. You could also look at Kate Deering's How To Heal Your Metabolism, if you're looking for a simpler book based on Ray Peat's work (I think it's going for cents on Amazon). There’s also Tim Berzins on YouTube. Christopher Walker's T raising diet is basically eat more carbs, moderate protein and moderate fat (he prefers potatoes instead of sugar) but the rest of the principles are almost exactly the same as Peat's.

I agree with you on ditching the IF if you feel like it's not worth your time or doesn't give you a particular edge. To me, carb cycling is too complex even if the research is good. Which is what I want to address: you know all you need to achieve the goals you want. Seriously. In terms of diet, I would say stick to the Peat basics but **** calorie counting, macro tracking or any of that crap. If you really need to track anything, weigh yourself in the morning, average each week and keep average a reasonable .2-3kg per month. I think ditch the supplements for a few months and just pump the food.

This leads into my real point. I've continued following what you've been writing and have seen that what's really bothering you is the approaching anhedonia and libido issues. Are you able to quantify what you think an appropriate libido is? To me, it sounds like you've worked yourself into a bit of a head prison. I'm going out on a limb, but it seems like maybe you've been struggling with this kind of existential loneliness that's preventing you from really "being there"? I think the RPF is doubling down on that problem. The forum is a great resource, but the hook of it is neuroticism. It's IUs; vitamin Xs; "if you eat two pastured eggs you'll be ok, but if you eat three free range you've ****88 it", that kind of hectic food isolation, etc.

But I think your instincts are good and you should trust them to a degree. You mentioned in another post how you're feeling like the only things you can reach for are cocaine and sex. Both are dopamine-drive activities, definitely. On this forum, the population is always going to speak in terms of serotonin, dopamine and chemical balance because that's the purview of their interest and investigation. But it also looks to me like both of those activities also focus on connection and shared experience with other people. Obviously, drug abuse is bad and sensibility should be applied there and, as an aside, there's also a strong negative undercurrent toward sex on the forum.

Which leads me to the big missed and potentially most effective point of Tyler's story. He drastically shifted his life environment to a stimulating environment. "I changed my diet and picked up an occupation that put me in the sun and in a natural environment (commercial fishing)." I don't know if you've seen the TV shows about commercial fishing, but it's an intense gig. I'm not recommending you copy him exactly, but I'm highlighting that maybe you could take the principle and apply it. My recommendation would be pick up physical, outdoor hobby that involves you in a group of people: rock climbing, sailing, orienteering, kayaking, fishing, scuba-diving, BJJ/Muay Thai/boxing (not outside but meets the other requirements), archery, HEMA, LARPing, paintball, football, tennis, hiking and camping, whatever you can imagine! Towards the end of Tyler's time on the forum, he had dropped almost all of his supplements except for NDT. I think his vanishing from the community is telling too.

I think this kind of attitudinal shift would support your goals for muscle growth too. Simply going to the gym to "gain muscle" is too vague and masturbatory. It's a treadmill. Even competitive bodybuilders have competition and a mindset for specific growth in specific areas, you know what I mean? If your muscle building becomes supporting, you might experience a different kind of drive. I don't think you can have a great libido and zest for life if you're suppressed into living a shame-based life.

Ultimately, I think healing your "heart" is the right direction and removing yourself from an online, sort of neurotic online community and investing into real life support networks and a stimulating life is the best call. To my mind, the belief that you must be fixed before you begin will keep you trapped and you will never start. Obsession on this forum seems to be a kind of manifested learned helplessness. I think you've got all the tools and instincts to get exactly where you want. You say you're feeling flat and asexual, but you have the remaining willpower and effort to at least bring you here to solve it and I think you should use that resource to propel you out.

If only as an experiment for yourself, you can always come back after a self imposed three month break. Someone rightly pointed out that if Ray Peat's diet supports him at his age, why should it be any different for a young man. I agree and misrepresented myself. I should have said that you can afford to not be as pedantic as Ray obviously must be. He's at an advanced age - classic cars take more maintenance, you've got the new engine and you should be driving it before you start getting precious about keeping it mint condition.

What beautiful advice. :clapping:

I used to post a lot at the beginning. I was neurotic. Each time I found a new problem or a new theory, I would post it without thinking. I always thought I had found the missing piece of my puzzle. As I unraveled some issues, my anxiety started to drop and naturally I stopped posting all the time. I still lurk a lot since I like this quirky community.

I am now on a more relaxed path to health that's more intuitive. I take ideas from the web and try to incorporate them. If I feel something is amiss, I am not afraid to make changes. I believe I will eventually lend on my perfect mix of diet and lifestyle. It might take longer, but at least I continue to live my life in the meantime.
 
OP
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GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
3,325
Location
Romania
Here's my big piece of advice: it's time to get off the forum. I think you're looking at important stuff on this forum, for sure, but I also think you're missing the really important parts of Ray's ideas and the best illustration is Tyler's awesome success story
I got Tyler's thread bookmarked :):

believe that you're making yourself neurotic and that's creating real but artificial problems.
I started being neurotic about nutrition about 2 years ago. I saw nutrition as my savior that would lift me out of depression, give me high confidence and energy levels to thrive in life.
First it was at a basic level: counting calories, macros, then it was about nutrient density, Carnivore / Paleo. Basic Stuff. Since I've found this forum, the neuroticism took on a whole new level. I'm now thinking in terms of aminoacid profile, dopamine / serotonin balance, glycogen storage..etc
All this time, I neglected my need to create for myself an exciting life.

Which leads me to the big missed and potentially most effective point of Tyler's story. He drastically shifted his life environment to a stimulating environment.
That is exactly it. I don't really anything stimulating with my life. Tried hiking, I enjoy it, but I find it quite the solitary activity, and I'm already a loner.

I'm going to visit the forum once a week and only whenever I am looking for something specific.
 

Jennifer

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
4,635
Location
USA
Tried hiking, I enjoy it, but I find it quite the solitary activity, and I'm already a loner.
You could join hiking forums and meetup groups if you don't already have friends who would be into hiking with you. My brother and I got into it after he joined a hiking forum for our area. It was a great way to socialize and to this day, some of my most favorite people I met through hiking. If done enough, any preexisting health obsession will be overtaken by an obsession for hiking gear and peak bagging — each can make you go broke but at least with hiking you'll have fun while doing it. lol
 

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