Norepinephrine Is Not A Stress Hormone

[michael94]

Fromm @Kartoffel

Consuming sugar rather than starch raises norepinephrine levels. Peat has spoken very "favorably" about norepinephrine as an important integrator of energy metabolism. Below are two responses I got from him regarding norepinephrine.​

It increases oxygen consumption and carbon dioxide production, with many protective effects. Noradrenalin is a central part of brain functioning, and integrates energy metabolism throughout the body, releasing glucose from stored glycogen; it isn't a stress hormone. Sugar protects against increased cortisol/cortisone. The cultists say it's addictive and causes stress, but that's their problem.

Hypothyroidism makes cells insensitive, and to keep functioning, the body has to increase the signals to activate them. Some hypothyroid people get very tense, alert, and sometimes even hypermetabolic, while others become sluggish, dull, and cold. Noradrenalin is largely responsible for the better kind of adaptive response. Serotonin dominance tends toward hibernation as a way to get through stress. Evidence from lizards and hibernating squirrels shows that polyunsaturated fats are responsible for that kind of adaptive avoidance. When thyroid functions, and the available energy fuels (sugars and saturated fats) are optimal, cells are very sensitive to all appropriate signals, and so the nerve signals, and other hormones, can decrease to very low levels. Both glucose and fructose help to keep the brain's T3 level up.

Here is the noradrenaline daily pattern of people that have been on a high-sucrose diet for 14 days (Raben et al. 1997)

 

[YourUniverse]

Nice

 

[Hans]

Nice, I've seen research that noradrenaline and thyroid synergistically increase energy expenditure and uncoupling, so one needs the other.
Excess noradrenaline can be a stressor though as it promote the liberation of fat and can promote insulin resistance over time.

 

[meatbag]

Fromm @Kartoffel

Consuming sugar rather than starch raises norepinephrine levels. Peat has spoken very "favorably" about norepinephrine as an important integrator of energy metabolism. Below are two responses I got from him regarding norepinephrine.​

Here is the noradrenaline daily pattern of people that have been on a high-sucrose diet for 14 days (Raben et al. 1997)

Where those quotes from, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[methylenewhite]

One more reason to take bupropion.

 

[redsun]

One more reason to take bupropion.

Bupropion tilts the balance heavily towards norepinephrine and away from dopamine since it works almost entirely on NE and very little on dopamine. Worse than the harder stimulants because it messes with this ratio. Not worth it.

 

[michael94]

Where those quotes from, if you don't mind me asking?

From Ray Peat's email response to Kartoffel here

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

One more reason to eat more sugar and less starch.

 

[michael94]

One more reason to eat more sugar and less starch.

Hello Rafael.. On the other hand, some people really DO have serious problems with sugar.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Hello Rafael.. On the other hand, some people really DO have serious problems with sugar.

Hey!

I had never heard of that disease. Thanks!

 

[aguineapig]

One more reason to take bupropion.

Buspirone seems to increase Noradrenaline more than it increases dopamine (which itself is raised quite a bit), with a really good minimal side effect profile.

 

[meatbag]

From Ray Peat's email response to Kartoffel here

Ok thanks, I hadn't seen those before

 

[gaze]

so is the main reason why sugar is less fattening than starch on a calorie for calorie basis because of the increase in noradrenaline, which increases the metabolic rate? This is where the relationship between metabolic rate and thyroid is tricky, as I don't think increasing noradrenaline for energy is the most pro-thyroid thing to do. For example, ray talks about his experience of eating 8000 calories a day when active and 4000 when sedentary, and when he supplemented thyroid it was cut in half. The noradrenaline from sugar is probably some sort of a substitute energy, which is different than thyroids ability to retain magnesium. I'm not sure how safe it is to rely on noradrenaline indefinitely without ever supplementing thyroid. I think in some cases a more efficient, less uncoupled metabolism with starch and fat can be safer, for example for underweight, already high adrenaline people; or people who have underlying minerals and vitamin deficiencies

 

[gaze]

bump. still confused on this, if anyone can clarify. there seems to be a lot of confusion on noradrenaline, for example Stress (adrenaline, Noradrenaline) As The Main Driver Of Cancer Metastases
I guess just cause noradrenaline rises with other stress hormones, it doesn't make it causative of damage or bad in of itself. Although Im pretty sure noradrenaline opposes thyroid as well, although i'm not sure.

Can anyone clarify? or has more resources on noradrenaline being a good thing?

 

[dukesbobby777]

Agomelatine, or any other 5HT2C antagonist (that don’t have other annoying mechanisms which blunt the beneficial effects of the 5HT2C antagonism in the frontal cortex) are ‘norepinephrine-dopamine disinhibitors’.

A potential avenue to explore for those who have anhedonia.

 

[gaze]

"Hypoglycemia and hypothyroidism increase noradrenaline, and autistic people have been found to have more noradrenaline than normal. These changes, along with the general hypometabolism caused by excess serotonin, seem to justify the use of a thyroid supplement in autism and other serotonin-excess syndromes."
- Ray

 

[GorillaHead]

"Hypoglycemia and hypothyroidism increase noradrenaline, and autistic people have been found to have more noradrenaline than normal. These changes, along with the general hypometabolism caused by excess serotonin, seem to justify the use of a thyroid supplement in autism and other serotonin-excess syndromes."
- Ray

well what if all your thyroid hormones are shown to be good. Tsh. T3 t4. Reverse t3. Etc.

Whats the issue then if you continue to have high noradrenaline

 

[gaze]

well what if all your thyroid hormones are shown to be good. Tsh. T3 t4. Reverse t3. Etc.

Whats the issue then if you continue to have high noradrenaline

no clue. Maybe it could be a good thing in that scenerio. but also noradrenaline and cortisol can make your thyroid numbers look good artificially. Stress can lower TSH, so going off body temperature and pulse is probably a better move.

 

[GorillaHead]

no clue. Maybe it could be a good thing in that scenerio. but also noradrenaline and cortisol can make your thyroid numbers look good artificially. Stress can lower TSH, so going off body temperature and pulse is probably a better move.

Well my body core body temp seems fine. Torso is warm. My extremities 90% of the time are mildly warm or very cold and worse during stressful situations.
Only time my body temp is up and nice and toasty is when i am asleep or resting and laying down for a while.



my ferrtin is 65. I wonder if i should be closer to 80.
Thoughts?

 

[gaze]

Well my body core body temp seems fine. Torso is warm. My extremities 90% of the time are mildly warm or very cold and worse during stressful situations.
Only time my body temp is up and nice and toasty is when i am asleep or resting and laying down for a while.



my ferrtin is 65. I wonder if i should be closer to 80.
Thoughts?

to me that just sounds like your underrating at times. i don't think your ferritin is a problem. do you have any comfort food that you can eat when your stressed ?

wait, so it's 90% warm or 90% cold? you only get cold during stress or do you mean your stressed most of the time unless your lying down or asleep?