Nofap As Hormonal Deficiency, Addiction Misunderstood, And DHT

Discussion in 'Testimonials' started by nullredvector, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. nullredvector

    nullredvector Member

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    With failing erections and libido, naturally I was drawn to nofap. I was committed, maybe not for year etc. Whereas nofap restored penile sensitivity it did nothing for my attraction to off-screen women and my wife. DHT has completely changed that for me. I am now stimulated by my wife and porn is mediocre at best.

    For the 'addictive' component to porn. This is the same misunderstood addiction rhetoric as the establishment. Yes, sugar is addictive and as studies have shown this is due to the body's intuition on the materials necessary to heal itself (lower cortisol). Porn is a symptom, a cry from your brain for dopamine and stress relief.

    I've been obese almost my whole life and I've had multiple traumatic brain injuries. This has most likely led to thyroid and neurosteroid insufficiencies. I'm rapidly moving away from these by supplementing steroids and thyroid.
     
  2. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    I tend to agree with this line of thinking on the nofap idea. For some guys, I believe it could be absolutely life changing and fix all their sex and relationship problems (especially the guys that use porn multiple times a day for years on end). For the vast majority, there will be some benefits or improvement, but many issues will remain. For some, they will see no difference whatsoever.
     
  3. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    do you find these effects from keto-DHT or "real" DHT?
     
  4. jaguar43

    jaguar43 Member

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    Interesting post, I also think the addiction theory of pornography is not base on evidence. Those websites who promote that idea also believe that junk foods and sugar are addictive; which should be seen huge as a red flag by Ray Peat followers.

    I think I heard of a study showing that those who view pornography "compulsively" have less gray matter than those who don't. That has lead those who believe porn to be an addiction to create the argument that it shrinks the brain. Rather than having less gray matter may lead to "compulsive" viewing of porn.
     
  5. Evan

    Evan Member

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    @nullredvector Is this pure DHT or 11-keto? If pure DHT, is it the Andractim brand? Which ever way, whats the dose that works best for you?
     
  6. kyle

    kyle Member

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    The source of the stress is not endogenous shortage of a hormone. Arousal (thus pornography) are stressors.

    Masturbation is restorative in the sense that it ends the aroused state and puts things into a refractory state.

    Why not both?
     
  7. jaguar43

    jaguar43 Member

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    What do you mean by both ? That porn can decrease grey matter in the brain ? Because there is no evidence for it.


    How can arousal be a stressor ? Thats the classical theory of the addiction model in which the substance is the cause of the addiction. However, the rat park studies have disproven this. It's definitely more complex than that.
     
  8. kyle

    kyle Member

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    I don't have the research at my fingertips but if you understand things like the refactory period, down-regulation etc, you can see where it is biologically taxing. Why do people want to sleep after sex? Maybe to reorganize the body's resources but undoubtedly the brain as well.

    Porn is a whole different thing from sex as well. To begin with, research the Coolidge effect.

    Arousal uses mental and physical resources- isn't that the definition of a stressor?
     
  9. Fractality

    Fractality Member

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    This definition of stressor irks me a bit. Perhaps I am just projecting a negative connotation onto your language. One could argue that mental/physical resources are meant to be utilized. People will argue until the end of time in regards to what end(s) these resources should be used for. I'm just not sure one can "hoard" resources to some inevitably positive effect; at least that's been my experience.

    For instance, right now I am full of generalized arousal but it isn't entirely a bad thing. I feel compelled to join in on this topic, send work related emails, etc.
     
  10. kyle

    kyle Member

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    Yeah, stress does have a negative connotation in its popular usage but this was actually how Hans Seyle originally used the term. It's just for lack of a better word that I use it here.

    What we know about arousal is it is indeed a potent stressor. We know sun, work and exercise are stressors but are perfectly good things in the right context.

    Also, for this idea that low dopamine/DHT/thyroid > causes porn addiction is odd since you wouldn't have any libido in such a state.
     
  11. snowboard111

    snowboard111 Member

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    What do you mean by it's how Hans Selye used the term?
     
  12. kyle

    kyle Member

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    Seyle regarded stress which was perceived as positive as eustress. I suppose most people would regard sexual arousal as eustress and not distress. Except when they discover they aren't attracted to their spouse or are compulsively watching deranged pornography. Then they might start to view it as distressful.

    At any rate, I suppose someone could cope with an in-balance with porn usage. But on the other hand, it is itself a different sort of stress, particularly when you start to think about its long term effects. Arguably, masturbation isn't normalizing things, just deranging them or confusing things.

    It's like how smoking or stimulants might cover up hunger or anxiety. It might help normalize things but it leads to longer term disorganization.

    The rat park example is showing that people won't seek out these more toxic agents if they can find better means of adaption.

    It doesn't mean those toxic agents aren't harmful or potentially going to encourage their further usage as a result of the damage they incur. People who have used those things are going to be dealing with damage to certain receptors, etc.

    I think what rat park tells us is people aren't prone to using those things or becoming 'addicted' if they are fulfilled. What the study doesn't tell us is how certain substances can cause residual damage/brain changes which encourage their further usage.

    I suppose you could supplement DHT and thyroid to keep a porn habit or a stim habit going. :lol:

    Not to dismiss nullredvector's observations. The fact that DHT helped him appreciate his wife seems to me a positive outcome. It seems nofap also benefited him. This seems to indicate nofap is beneficial, though not a cure all in his goals/perception.

    I find the idea that DHT changed his perception on porn interesting. Maybe on some level it gave him heightened awareness or something.
     
  13. jaguar43

    jaguar43 Member

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    I disagree, sex is a inborn characteristic. I don't understand how it can be label as eustress. Is eating eustress as well ? Unless you can properly characterize or compare an inborn characteristic with sexual arousal then your argument is invalid.
     
  14. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Does nofap actually affect any of the hormones?
     
  15. jaakkima

    jaakkima Member

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    I agree with the basic thing that being really into porn is often a sign of some illness and hormonal problems. Estrogen is known to cause uncomfortable high sex drive and antisocial feeling along with serotonin etc, and often sick people don't have easy access to sex. My rats have experienced some improvement in feeling social and masculine from 11KDHT but good thyroid does way more.
     
  16. kyle

    kyle Member

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    I suppose it could be. If you eat the wrong things, this is clearly distressful, no?

    Anyway, this is semantics. The fact that there is a strong relationship between DHT/Thyroid would suggest its function requires a fair amount of energy. Enough said.
     
  17. jaguar43

    jaguar43 Member

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    Sexual arousal is not eustress. That gives the impression that it isn't an inborn characteristic. Eustress is stress that can be beneficial in the right amounts to the organism. When you label sexual arousal as eustress ( or stressful), you are directly stating that sexual arousal is the problem. It sounds a lot like religious ideology in my opinion.
     
  18. kyle

    kyle Member

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    Haha...I intentionally made the point to state that it was good he was achieving "his goals/perception." I'm being neutral as I can.

    While we're putting words in people's mouth here - how about you don't foist your guilty conscience on other people. :shifty:

    As I said, 'stress' is just a concept, semantics. If you want to say sex is not resource intensive, that's your call.
     
  19. jaguar43

    jaguar43 Member

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    Resource intensive ? So let's try an example of your theory of "resource intensive". I would saying eating and sleeping are "resource intensive" because they take up a lot of time and money. Does that mean I am going to stop doing those things. No because those are necessities of life.

    Can one choose to turn off sexual arousal ? No, it's part of who we are. You can choose, however, to live like a priest. But that desire is always going to be there regardless.

    So when you say that sex is "resource intensive" you give the impression that it is something that one doesn't have to participate in. True, but it isn't the whole story. And it's extremely misleading in my opinion.


    And I don't think stress is just a concept. I think it's a very real thing.
     
  20. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    well, sexual arousal IS eustress. It's excitement. That's kind of the definition of eustress. It's stress, excitement, agitation, in a sexual direction. I mean, isn't that obvious?

    It's a stimulation of the nervous system and I'm sure hormonally affecting every cell. We are of course designed to be occasionally sexually aroused. I think some thinkers today say that we are hyperstimulated sexually all the time, and this hyperstimulation causes us mental and physical problems, sexually and in other ways and that this is "unnatural" and I agree with these thinkers. They are on to something. Yourbrainonporn.com and others seem to have a lot of validity wrt this concept of hyperstimulation and too much constant sexual arousal that could never be around a "real" partner, almost like eating junk food is to eating "real" food...
     
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