Nocturnal back pain

[UphillEndeavors]

Within the past week or so, I have started to get bad tightness/pain in my L1/L2 area while sleeping. No position relieves the discomfort. I'm fine for about the first 4-5 hours of rest, then it hits. As I get up and move around during the morning, it slowly goes away. Any thoughts?

 

[skuabird]

Bulging disc maybe? Even if you haven't hurt it recently, the discs can slowly over time wear through the collagen and start irritating a nerve. I think Dr. Stuart McGill is the best resource for back pain (there's lots of free content on youtube).

You could see if the Mcgill big three before bed helps it out and make it a routine if it does:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcwIALgRXHk

 

[CreakyJoints]

The exercise recommendation above from @skuabird is probably more valuable than what I am about to post, but I don't know much about physiotherapy.

I know you said no position relieves the discomfort, but which position do you sleep in most commonly, and do you incline your bed? Do you work at a desk during the day?

I think it might possibly be related to tightness in the pelvis/hip area. In Alexander Technique, there is a method (see below) involving lying on the ground with your knees up which should help unlock any tension there. Have you tried this already?

The idea of this exercise is to try to allow as much of your spine as possible to lie flat across the floor; it could help relieve, or at least highlight, any excess tension in the hips if you do it correctly. Perhaps it will help if you were already unaware of it. I think some practitioners recommend doing this for ten minutes or so a day to get used to the feeling of an entirely straight back, but it might help before bed in your situation.

 

[UphillEndeavors]

Bulging disc maybe? Even if you haven't hurt it recently, the discs can slowly over time wear through the collagen and start irritating a nerve. I think Dr. Stuart McGill is the best resource for back pain (there's lots of free content on youtube).

You could see if the Mcgill big three before bed helps it out and make it a routine if it does:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcwIALgRXHk

It's weird, though. It doesn't hurt when I sit, lift weights, no numbness, tingling. Just bam! Comes on like the Dickens in the middle of the night recently. Feels locked up and pain is about 5/10.

 

[skuabird]

It's weird, though. It doesn't hurt when I sit, lift weights, no numbness, tingling. Just bam! Comes on like the Dickens in the middle of the night recently. Feels locked up and pain is about 5/10.

Lift weights? Like deadlifts and squats? 'Cause that'll help a disc work through the collagen if you can't keep your core stiff enough during the movement. It doesn't necessarily manifest as a sharp pain during a lift, but can be a slow and worsening ache.

If it's locking up that is an indication your muscles are trying to stiffen/straighten up your spine to protect it from further injury.

 

[YourUniverse]

Been having this for 3 or 4 months now, going the traditional route and having an ultrasound thursday

 

[skuabird]

The exercise recommendation above from @skuabird is probably more valuable than what I am about to post, but I don't know much about physiotherapy.

I know you said no position relieves the discomfort, but which position do you sleep in most commonly, and do you incline your bed? Do you work at a desk during the day?

I think it might possibly be related to tightness in the pelvis/hip area. In Alexander Technique, there is a method (see below) involving lying on the ground with your knees up which should help unlock any tension there. Have you tried this already?

View attachment 28059

The idea of this exercise is to try to allow as much of your spine as possible to lie flat across the floor; it could help relieve, or at least highlight, any excess tension in the hips if you do it correctly. Perhaps it will help if you were already unaware of it. I think some practitioners recommend doing this for ten minutes or so a day to get used to the feeling of an entirely straight back, but it might help before bed in your situation.

^ Yes. This is great too, especially if you have a tight psoas (that may be putting strain on your discs). I did this every day before I found McGill's work. My pain was particularly asymmetrical and in one hip + low back.

To get even deeper in there I found this to be ammmmazing (though admittedly a bit weird looking):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8znRwZP0ME

 

[UphillEndeavors]

Been having this for 3 or 4 months now, going the traditional route and having an ultrasound thursday

Thank you for the replies, everyone. If you remember, can you update after you get your ultrasound results? Thanks.

 

[UphillEndeavors]

The exercise recommendation above from @skuabird is probably more valuable than what I am about to post, but I don't know much about physiotherapy.

I know you said no position relieves the discomfort, but which position do you sleep in most commonly, and do you incline your bed? Do you work at a desk during the day?

I think it might possibly be related to tightness in the pelvis/hip area. In Alexander Technique, there is a method (see below) involving lying on the ground with your knees up which should help unlock any tension there. Have you tried this already?

View attachment 28059

The idea of this exercise is to try to allow as much of your spine as possible to lie flat across the floor; it could help relieve, or at least highlight, any excess tension in the hips if you do it correctly. Perhaps it will help if you were already unaware of it. I think some practitioners recommend doing this for ten minutes or so a day to get used to the feeling of an entirely straight back, but it might help before bed in your situation.

I am in my work truck maybe 2-3 hours a day, but then I am on my feet and moving for 6-7 hours. My job is physical.

I lift weights (light) and do bodyweight stuff maybe 3 times a week. I hike and sprint.

Could it be something nutritional? Not enough magnesium, maybe? I drink a lot of coffee and I am fairly big (6'3" 195lbs). Maybe I am deplete...it really spasms up lately.

I just find it weird that it only manifests when I lay down...

 

[skuabird]

I am in my work truck maybe 2-3 hours a day, but then I am on my feet and moving for 6-7 hours. My job is physical.

I lift weights (light) and do bodyweight stuff maybe 3 times a week. I hike and sprint.

Could it be something nutritional? Not enough magnesium, maybe? I drink a lot of coffee and I am fairly big (6'3" 195lbs). Maybe I am deplete...it really spasms up lately.

I just find it weird that it only manifests when I lay down...

Have you ever injured your back in the past? Sometimes it takes years to start hurting (moving through the collagen lattice to interact with the nerve).

I dealt with spasms and seizing a lot at the beginning of the year and last- however, it was when I did too much in the day, pushed it too far (especially bending forward/hamstring stretch). I ended up stuck on the ground a couple days. I found the mcgill big 3 everyday most helpful, however, pregnanlone (even at small doses) helps too.

Are you outside working? Getting enough sun/vitamin d? You could also look at building collagen- eating collagen and vit c.

 

[YourUniverse]

Thank you for the replies, everyone. If you remember, can you update after you get your ultrasound results? Thanks.

Here are the things I have done these last few months:

-Low back exercises of all kinds (ex. good mornings, deadlifts, back extensions, reverse hypers)
-QL and oblique exercises of all kinds (side bends, twists, suitcase carries)
-hip flexor/psoas exercises of all kinds (situps, leg raises)
-glute and ab exercises of all kinds (glute bridges, planks)

The pain I have is local to one side, and extends down my knee and ankle. Not sure if origin is low back or foot. By description may be sciatic.

I sit a lot (car and desk).

I tend to think this is psoas related, which would be stress related. Not everyone who sits a lot has psoas/back trouble. Some people have hernias and feel no pain, for example. John Sarno said journaling your mental/emotional stressors can relieve treatment-resistant back pain.

 

[skuabird]

Here are the things I have done these last few months:

-Low back exercises of all kinds (ex. good mornings, deadlifts, back extensions, reverse hypers)
-QL and oblique exercises of all kinds (side bends, twists, suitcase carries)
-hip flexor/psoas exercises of all kinds (situps, leg raises)
-glute and ab exercises of all kinds (glute bridges, planks)

The pain I have is local to one side, and extends down my knee and ankle. Not sure if origin is low back or foot. By description may be sciatic.

I sit a lot (car and desk).

I tend to think this is psoas related, which would be stress related. Not everyone who sits a lot has psoas/back trouble. Some people have hernias and feel no pain, for example. John Sarno said journaling your mental/emotional stressors can relieve treatment-resistant back pain.

You should give the video I posted above a shot- the woman with the tp rolls (weird but it works!), especially if you're feeling it the psoas.

I should say I'm pain free despite my back still being pretty jacked (injury, hyperlordosis, scoliosis). I'm going over x-ray results this friday with a rheumatologist so I can maybe find out what caused all my troubles.

 

[Perry Staltic]

What's your bed like? I recently had some back issues and on a hunch bought a new, really firm bed. Problems almost immediately went away. Was really surprised because I didn't think my old bed was that bad (even though it was probably over 15 years old). I used to be religious about sleeping on a firm surface, but kind of got away from that I guess.

 

[UphillEndeavors]

I had a debilitating back injury about ten years ago. Work outside, yes. I take carlson d3 drops, health natura vitamin k, about 1000mg nutrigold vitamin c, and about 20g collagen daily. I used to do mcgills big 3, but I was never consistent. I'll start to implement those.

Have you ever injured your back in the past? Sometimes it takes years to start hurting (moving through the collagen lattice to interact with the nerve).

I dealt with spasms and seizing a lot at the beginning of the year and last- however, it was when I did too much in the day, pushed it too far (especially bending forward/hamstring stretch). I ended up stuck on the ground a couple days. I found the mcgill big 3 everyday most helpful, however, pregnanlone (even at small doses) helps too.

Are you outside working? Getting enough sun/vitamin d? You could also look at building collagen- eating collagen and vit c.

 

[Source Code]

Do you ever have frequent urination? It could be your kidneys causing the pain?

 

[UphillEndeavors]

Do you ever have frequent urination? It could be your kidneys causing the pain?

Not at all.

 

[Don]

I would look into Dr John Sarno and TMS. Youtube has some good vids by painfreeyou.

 

[CreakyJoints]

I am in my work truck maybe 2-3 hours a day, but then I am on my feet and moving for 6-7 hours. My job is physical.

I lift weights (light) and do bodyweight stuff maybe 3 times a week. I hike and sprint.

Could it be something nutritional? Not enough magnesium, maybe? I drink a lot of coffee and I am fairly big (6'3" 195lbs). Maybe I am deplete...it really spasms up lately.

I just find it weird that it only manifests when I lay down...

It's possible. It makes sense to me that it would happen when laying down, though. I'm not even a novice when it comes to this but just imagining different muscle groups being over-active when standing or sitting - things would maybe take a wrong turn when some of that over-compensatory effort is removed.

The only time I've ever had something like what you're describing is when I slept right next to a very old, very draughty window. It became very cold at night and my back would go into spasms, sometimes waking me up. I would wake up in a lot of pain. I doubt that's got anything to do with your current situation, but maybe it could help?

 

[YourUniverse]

Fixed the back pain. All I did was stand, hips facing forward, and twist my upper body to one side, holding for a stretch (maybe 90 seconds on each side)

 

[UphillEndeavors]

N

Fixed the back pain. All I did was stand, hips facing forward, and twist my upper body to one side, holding for a stretch (maybe 90 seconds on each side)

Nice!