No Need To Cut Back On Red Meat? Controversial New 'Guidelines' Lead To Outrage

Mito

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“A new set of analyses published Monday in the Annals of Internal Medicine challenges the widespread recommendations to cut back on red and processed meats.

The prominent medical journal has also published a new recommendation from a panel of scientists, many of whom are not nutrition experts: "The panel suggests adults continue current processed meat consumption," according to the guideline paper. In other words: no need to cut back.

Scores of nutrition experts say this conclusion contradicts a large body of evidence, from decades of observational studies, that has found that people who consume less red and processed meats, over time, have lower rates of heart disease and death from certain cancers, including colorectal cancer.

Recommendations from the American Heart Association and the American Cancer Society, as well as the U.S. Dietary Guidelines, all call for limiting red meats and processed meats.

"I am outraged and bewildered," says nutrition scientist Christopher Gardner, a professor of medicine at Stanford University.

"This is perplexing, given the ... clear evidence for harm associated with high red meat intake," says Frank Hu, the chair of the Department of Nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health.

Gardner and Hu are among a group of scientists who signed a letter to the journal's editor requesting the papers be held pending further review. Others include Dariush Mozaffarian, the dean of the Friedman School of Nutrition at Tufts University, as well as Eric Rimm and Dr. Walter Willett, also of Harvard's T.H. Chan School of Public Health.”

No Need To Cut Back On Red Meat? Controversial New 'Guidelines' Lead To Outrage
 

meatbag

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:ss
 

tankasnowgod

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From the article-

"In a nutshell, the authors of the new analyses have used an alternative approach to evaluate the evidence. They've used a system known as GRADE, which is a process to rate the quality of scientific evidence. Using this approach, a kind of study known as a randomized controlled trial — or RCT, for short — is considered high-quality evidence.

Nutrition scientist Frank Hu of Harvard says the problem with GRADE is that it was mainly developed for evaluating evidence from drug trials. "It's really problematic and inappropriate to use GRADE to evaluate nutrition studies," Hu says. Most of nutrition science is built on another type of study, observational studies. These are conducted by tracking the eating habits of people over many years. But here's the rub: The GRADE system considers these observational studies to be low quality."

Ah, so since diet isn't like drugs, we should be okay with setting dietary guidelines on complete garbage studies, at least according to nutritionist Frank Hu.

And make no mistake, those long term observational studies are complete garbage. In addition to the standard observational limitations, those studies only collect dietary data from the subjects they are "tracking" every 2-4 YEARS.

The only reason using GRADE is "problematic" in this case is that it helps to expose the long term con run by these so called scientists. Once again, thank the passive voice for deleting the subject of who this would be problematic for.
 

yerrag

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"continue current processed meat consumption"

I feel sorry for those eating unprocessed meat. When will we begin to eat like cats and dogs so we can enjoy pellet nutrition?

.
 

Blossom

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"continue current processed meat consumption"

I feel sorry for those eating unprocessed meat. When will we begin to eat like cats and dogs so we can enjoy pellet nutrition?

.
They are trying with the processed meat alternatives like Impossible Burger.
 

thomas00

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The only reason using GRADE is "problematic" in this case is that it helps to expose the long term con run by these so called scientists. Once again, thank the passive voice for deleting the subject of who this would be problematic for.


Yep.


What are these jokers going to publish now in order to 'stay relevant'?
 

schultz

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Nutrition scientist Frank Hu of Harvard says the problem with GRADE is that it was mainly developed for evaluating evidence from drug trials. "It's really problematic and inappropriate to use GRADE to evaluate nutrition studies," Hu says. Most of nutrition science is built on another type of study, observational studies. These are conducted by tracking the eating habits of people over many years. But here's the rub: The GRADE system considers these observational studies to be low quality."

:facepalm:

I am confused as to why he thinks observational studies are anything but low quality?
 

redsun

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Vegan gains, the peak of stupidity who looks severely ill and not even going to bother talking about his mental illness, which is well known. And now you post mic the severely anemic vegan monkey. You unironically post these severely sickly vegans' videos in attempt to provide valuable info, when you are really just spreading vegan illness to gullible people who view this forum and don't know any better.
 

boxers

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Vegan gains, the peak of stupidity who looks severely ill and not even going to bother talking about his mental illness, which is well known. And now you post mic the severely anemic vegan monkey. You unironically post these severely sickly vegans' videos in attempt to provide valuable info, when you are really just spreading vegan illness to gullible people who view this forum and don't know any better.
.

Im actually quite surprised with how i feel going peat vegan after reading this which inspired me to give it a try. I will probably add in animal foods eventually, but i feel better than ever right now

Unintentional Vegan Peating: Amazing So Far
Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible
 
Last edited:

redsun

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.

Im actually quite surprised with how i feel going peat vegan after reading this which inspired me to give it a try

Unintentional Vegan Peating: Amazing So Far

It's like clockwork. Every vegan says this. Feels great initially, then without fail degenerates. Some takes weeks, some months, or even years. Humans need animal products, there is no other way to go about it. There really is no way to truly make people underatand the importance of animal foods for humans. If you don't understand it now, you never will. Not until you degenerate from the lack of it which is inevitable.
 
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.

Im actually quite surprised with how i feel going peat vegan after reading this which inspired me to give it a try. I will probably add in animal foods eventually, but i feel better than ever right now

Unintentional Vegan Peating: Amazing So Far
Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible

Did you scroll to the last page to read the OP's diet update?

"UPDATE: Added a bit of meat and lowered potatoes. Around 200 grams of beef per day and 2 kg of potatoes. Grapes for sugar and some honey. Some white bread too.
Tried dairy. Dairy ruins my mood.
A little meat works though. It is socially sustainable. You can eat some dishes in social settings this way."

Then his latest post was this.

"Potatoes were ok but couldn't eat enough and gain muscle.
Currently doing sugar and beef."
 

Tarmander

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This is a great example of Taleb's IYI (Intellectual Yet Idiot). These nutrition scientists monetize guilt and get off on telling people not to consume things that are good for them.
 

Blossom

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This is a great example of Taleb's IYI (Intellectual Yet Idiot). These nutrition scientists monetize guilt and get off on telling people not to consume things that are good for them.
I’m convinced the only way to go is to experiment for ourselves. We’ve become so distanced from our own needs by all the marketing and conflicting nutrition information.
 

boxers

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I asked ray peat about red meat causing cancer

"
I think there is, especially in countries like the U.S. that “age” beef, since that produces growth-stimulating polyamines; regular meat eaters often have an excess of iron and phosphate in their diet, relative to copper and calcium, as well as an excess of tryptophan, methionine, and cysteine."
 

Tarmander

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I’m convinced the only way to go is to experiment for ourselves. We’ve become so distanced from our own needs by all the marketing and conflicting nutrition information.
Definitely. Personal experimentation stock nails their numbers every year while big science advice misses another quarter.
 

Birdie

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I asked ray peat about red meat causing cancer

"
I think there is, especially in countries like the U.S. that “age” beef, since that produces growth-stimulating polyamines; regular meat eaters often have an excess of iron and phosphate in their diet, relative to copper and calcium, as well as an excess of tryptophan, methionine, and cysteine."

I've heard him talk about this too. He likens aged meat to "decayed meat" and "half spoiled" meat.

Here are some of his suggestions in dealing with the polyamine problem. And also ways to deal with the high tryptophan and cysteine levels for example.


From his article, Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology :

"Increasing carbon dioxide will tend to direct ammonia into urea synthesis, and away from the formation of polyamines. Bicarbonate protects against many of the toxic effects of ammonia, and since carbon dioxide spontaneously reacts with amino groups, it probably helps to inactivate exogenous polyamines. This could account for some of the protective effects of carbon dioxide (or high altitude), for example its anti-seizure, anticancer, and antistress effects.

Other things that protect against excessive polyamines are procaine and other local anesthetics (Yuspa, et al., 1980), magnesium, niacin, vitamin A, aspirin, and, in some circumstances, caffeine. Since endotoxin stimulates the formation of polyamines, a diet that doesn't irritate the intestine is important. Tryptophan and methionine contribute to the formation of polyamines, so gelatin, which lacks those amino acids and is soothing to the intestine, should be a regular part of the diet.

Because the polyamines intensity the neurotoxic and carcinogenic effects of estrogen and of polyunsaturated fats, those three types of substance should be considered as a functional unit in making food choices. (Grass-fed organic beef fresh from a local farm would be a reasonable choice.) Unfortunately, the meat industry has maximized all of those dangers, just for the increased weight of their product. "
 
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