Nitric Oxide (N.O.), Energy, Fat Pumps, And Longevity

sladerunner69

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If anyone could help enhance my knowledge on NO I would definitely appreciate it....

As a college athlete and long-time weightlifter I have noticed something after taking various anti-serotonin supplements and especially after drinking a few coffees through the morning and afternoon leading up to my evening workout... I have almost no pump. My lifting buddies don't give a rat's butt about eating anything except protein powder and fast food, and they achieve serious pumps in the weightroom. My one friend pulls and pushes the same numbers as me on arms but his are nearly 1 inch bigger! They are also coverred in vascularity and have a remarkable "roadmap" veins look. Meanwhile I have one large vein on the back of my forearm and that is about it. I would certainly boast more if I was lower bodyfat, as I am 210lbs 12% bodyfat. However, my pumps and overallsize are definitely down from a few years ago when I was not peating. It's like the blood doesnt want to rush into my muscles no matter how many sets I do. When I used to take NO explode I would get that really awesome pumped up feeling in whatever muscle group I was training, and I sort of miss that.

That said, I am not a bodybuilder and I find the hobby somewhat narcissistic. My goal is to balance athletic performance (I throw discus and shotput) with health, while I maintain a consistent recovery in androgenic activity after using finasteride a few years ago. Related, by erections are not as full and strong and I beleive that is partially do to my lessened bloodflow.

I've read a bit about how NO is implicated in cancer and oxidation and PUFA release, so I began taking niacinimide on top of drinking a few cups of joe each day and taking AT LEAST 1 gram of aspirin. I just hope it does not affect the numbers on my lifts (squat, clean, jerk, bench) if I cannot train my muscles as affectively as my friends who love the vascular effects of NO.

There are also plenty of bodybuilders who swear by the use of carnitine and serotonin amino acids to increase nitric oxide because they beleive the enhanced bloodflow is beneficial to the cardiovascualr system, or something. They are likely incorrect, but why?
 

Diokine

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I have definitely noticed a trend towards increased hypertrophy with significant muscle pump, though not increased strength or endurance. I have also noticed much longer recovery times and severity of DOMS with a greater pump. I look at the edema in large skeletal muscles like that to be related to an energetic deficit in some regards. Arachidonic acid metabolism is significantly modified when stressing the muscle like that, leading to swelling and water retention. I think if we look at the extreme case of a muscle pump (compartment syndrome) and the physiology associated with that, we can conclude that it is not a thing to strive for. All the markers of severe muscle damage are present, and severely damaged muscles will tend towards sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but with increased collagen production.

The pump feels good, but I much prefer the feeling of my muscles when it takes a lot more to stress them out. Force generation and endurance are much greater, and the difference in recovery time is incredible.
 
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I believe Ray has said that excessive visible vascularity is a sign of estrogen. It is possible that the stress hormones from exercise recovery and the pump are a result of estrogen in the cells along with the energy deficit, poor oxidative phosphorylation and instead glycolysis producing lactic acid.

A localized stress or irritation at first produces vasodilation that increases the delivery of blood to the tissues, allowing them to compensate for the stress by producing more energy. Some of the agents that produce vasodilation also reduce oxygen consumption (nitric oxide, for example), helping to restore a normal oxygen tension to the tissue. Hypoxia itself (produced by factors other than irritation) can induce vasodilation, and if prolonged sufficiently, tends to produce neovascularization and fibrosis.

Rosacea, inflammation, and aging: The inefficiency of stress
 

thms

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Any more insights on this topic?

I notice that when i started following the guidelines of ray peat i get a much lesser pump also (i am a natural bodybuilder )

Thank you
 

Parsifal

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I guess your muscles have less calcium influx/water retention and damage/inflammation which could be a good sign?
 

Risingfire

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If anyone could help enhance my knowledge on NO I would definitely appreciate it....

As a college athlete and long-time weightlifter I have noticed something after taking various anti-serotonin supplements and especially after drinking a few coffees through the morning and afternoon leading up to my evening workout... I have almost no pump. My lifting buddies don't give a rat's butt about eating anything except protein powder and fast food, and they achieve serious pumps in the weightroom. My one friend pulls and pushes the same numbers as me on arms but his are nearly 1 inch bigger! They are also coverred in vascularity and have a remarkable "roadmap" veins look. Meanwhile I have one large vein on the back of my forearm and that is about it. I would certainly boast more if I was lower bodyfat, as I am 210lbs 12% bodyfat. However, my pumps and overallsize are definitely down from a few years ago when I was not peating. It's like the blood doesnt want to rush into my muscles no matter how many sets I do. When I used to take NO explode I would get that really awesome pumped up feeling in whatever muscle group I was training, and I sort of miss that.

That said, I am not a bodybuilder and I find the hobby somewhat narcissistic. My goal is to balance athletic performance (I throw discus and shotput) with health, while I maintain a consistent recovery in androgenic activity after using finasteride a few years ago. Related, by erections are not as full and strong and I beleive that is partially do to my lessened bloodflow.

I've read a bit about how NO is implicated in cancer and oxidation and PUFA release, so I began taking niacinimide on top of drinking a few cups of joe each day and taking AT LEAST 1 gram of aspirin. I just hope it does not affect the numbers on my lifts (squat, clean, jerk, bench) if I cannot train my muscles as affectively as my friends who love the vascular effects of NO.

There are also plenty of bodybuilders who swear by the use of carnitine and serotonin amino acids to increase nitric oxide because they beleive the enhanced bloodflow is beneficial to the cardiovascualr system, or something. They are likely incorrect, but why?

Slade, are you lifting heavy with low reps?
 
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sladerunner69

sladerunner69

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Slade, are you lifting heavy with low reps?

Yes, I usually do from 2-6 reps on the main lifts like bench press, squat, leg press, hangclean, deadlift. For bis'tris I do 8-12 reps and try to get more of a pump. For Calves and abs I do at least 15 reps because these muscles are slow twitch, meaning they can be trained almost daily but only respond well to very high reps.

I guess your muscles have less calcium influx/water retention and damage/inflammation which could be a good sign?
Yeah the pump is definitely not as good and the whole feeling of the muscle is different, I can sometimes do a bunch of reps and not feel any pain in the trained muscle at all, and it wont get very much of a pump and this si because the stress hormones and NO and infammation is being wiped out. Its actually qutie strange, my muscles definitely look a bit smaller, less round and full, but I am definitely stronger and can hit more reps, and am way more pwoerful my one rep maxes are off the charts.
Any more insights on this topic?

I notice that when i started following the guidelines of ray peat i get a much lesser pump also (i am a natural bodybuilder )
Thank you
Yep waht I jsut wrote, also I agree with parsifal that having less of a pump is probaby a very good sign when it comes to health and longevity because massiv epumps are associated with NO, serotonin, cortisol.
 

Risingfire

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Yes, I usually do from 2-6 reps on the main lifts like bench press, squat, leg press, hangclean, deadlift. For bis'tris I do 8-12 reps and try to get more of a pump. For Calves and abs I do at least 15 reps because these muscles are slow twitch, meaning they can be trained almost daily but only respond well to very high reps.


Yeah the pump is definitely not as good and the whole feeling of the muscle is different, I can sometimes do a bunch of reps and not feel any pain in the trained muscle at all, and it wont get very much of a pump and this si because the stress hormones and NO and infammation is being wiped out. Its actually qutie strange, my muscles definitely look a bit smaller, less round and full, but I am definitely stronger and can hit more reps, and am way more pwoerful my one rep maxes are off the charts.

Yep waht I jsut wrote, also I agree with parsifal that having less of a pump is probaby a very good sign when it comes to health and longevity because massiv epumps are associated with NO, serotonin, cortisol.

I think if you hit 8 + reps you'll be feeling it. I did 10 x 1 and never felt much of a pump yet my muscle still grew. 6 months ago I went to higher volume and had some good pumps. I'm not so sure that having a pump is a sign of bad health. I had that in high school consistently while lifting and I my metabolism was incredible. Five years ago, I rarely got a good pump. I believe it's the opposite
 
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sladerunner69

sladerunner69

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I think if you hit 8 + reps you'll be feeling it. I did 10 x 1 and never felt much of a pump yet my muscle still grew. 6 months ago I went to higher volume and had some good pumps. I'm not so sure that having a pump is a sign of bad health. I had that in high school consistently while lifting and I my metabolism was incredible. Five years ago, I rarely got a good pump. I believe it's the opposite

A lot f people ahve great metabolisms when they are still very young. Also my ability to recover in high school was very good despite my high gluten, high starch, high meat high phosphorous and preservatives typical athlete diet. My recovery ability is better now but if I were to go back to that diet I would feel like crud. I know for a fact my pumps were much bigger back then, sometimes my pumps would be just massive and I would look almost like a pro bodybuilder and many would ask me what I was on and accuse me of taking steroids, although of course I never took any sort of steroid at that time and I just had great testosterone genetics. But my workouts I would consider very good if I took a couple scoops of gaspari pre-workout or 1mr and got really big pumps and a lot of vascularity and that off the wall rabid energy feeling. All of those effects I now associate with stress hormones, the N.O. that bodybuidlers tought as being primarily responsible for the pump is clealry implicated in all sorts of degenerative illness, and that crazed maniacaly energy is super high adrenaline and cortisol.
 

Risingfire

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A lot f people ahve great metabolisms when they are still very young. Also my ability to recover in high school was very good despite my high gluten, high starch, high meat high phosphorous and preservatives typical athlete diet. My recovery ability is better now but if I were to go back to that diet I would feel like crud. I know for a fact my pumps were much bigger back then, sometimes my pumps would be just massive and I would look almost like a pro bodybuilder and many would ask me what I was on and accuse me of taking steroids, although of course I never took any sort of steroid at that time and I just had great testosterone genetics. But my workouts I would consider very good if I took a couple scoops of gaspari pre-workout or 1mr and got really big pumps and a lot of vascularity and that off the wall rabid energy feeling. All of those effects I now associate with stress hormones, the N.O. that bodybuidlers tought as being primarily responsible for the pump is clealry implicated in all sorts of degenerative illness, and that crazed maniacaly energy is super high adrenaline and cortisol.
I'm going to take methylene blue before my workout and report back.
 

TubZy

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Slade, I fell into the high NO lifestyle ever since I started lifting (not anymore). Taking all the NO supps like agmatine, arginine, viagra pre workout etc. b/c of how touted it is in the BB supplement world. I was hesitant when started looking into peat about how everything he mentions lowers NO. My NO is very low now since peating and I'm still vascular as hell and my strength hasn't changed (only improved). So I don't think NO is hyped up as it seems to be in the BB world, I'm not saying it doesn't have a use at all, but it is way overrated and mostly a scam in the supplement industry IMO.

When I found out what actually NO was, I don't want that stuff constantly elevated especially in terms of severe stress (heavy weightlifting). Feel like you would be double the damage by taking tons of NO precursors and going to lift weights (which is inflammatory in itself).
 
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sladerunner69

sladerunner69

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I'm going to take methylene blue before my workout and report back.

MB a few hours before a workout gives me almost no discernable pump whatsoever. The effect is likely enhanced because of all the coffee I drink which also ahs a strong anti-NO effect, as does taurine/lysine. So does igher doses of aspirin it seems. This is why I have actually begun taking my MB and amino acids like taurine/lysine before bed, they make me tired anyways. In the morning I just take caffiene, vitamin k, b vitamins, a few drops of 5-dhp and a few drops of preg. Sometimes I add a drop or two of pansterone if I want good energy but it does make em a bit irritable. Then I save that other stuff for before bed, including aspirin and fomatadine. Sometimes I will take 11-keto in the morning but then my estrogen drops too low so I can't use it with other hormonal stuff.
 

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