Niclosamide for fat loss/ uncoupling

[Mauritio]

Mauritio, why are you not using the dosage used in the study? 40 mg/day and 80mg/day?

I might do that if I dont get results. But even 20mg was very stimulating for me, so I cut back to 15mg.
I'm a low dose guy. That's how it is for most supplements , I get great results from 1mg pregnenolone as well.

 

[Hans]

I used 500mg x2 for roughly 2 weeks. The main benefits I've noticed were feeling warmer and my tongue getting clearer, but I don't know if that's also because I've been tanning about 30 min each day, so my vit D is going up a lot. Since it's almost summer here, I've stopped because it's already hot and don't want to be hotter. I'll continue it again in the winter, so I picked a bad time to experiment with an uncoupler haha. But since I've stopped, I still feel great mood and excellent bowel health, which I'm not sure is due to the niclosamide, sunlight or both.

 

[Mauritio]

Just after thinking I didnt have any side effects anymore , I had quite strong constipation yesterday. That's really the main downside of niclosamide for me. The constipation seems to come in cycles thoug ,like every 2 or 3 days.
I already struggle with constipation, so everything that makes it worse has a strong effect on me .

I do want to keep taking niclosamide, so I'm thinking about incorporating magnesium glycinate, cascara or pyrucet. All of which helped with constipation to some degree, In the past.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I'm using 15mg of phosphate .
My goal is to improve my mood, brain fog and motivation. So far it seems to help a little . Also feel a bit more anxious ,but a lot of peole respond like that apparently.

I found an interesting graph showing that it lowers cortisol , in some even permanently and that how well it lowers cortisol in you, corresponds how you respond to it.

I know there's plenty of things that lower cortisol. But this feels quite different from the youth steroids , more like a microdose of LSD.

please post that study of graph if you get the chance. Thank you as always.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I think I have very mild die off symptoms.

 

[Mauritio]

please post that study of graph if you get the chance. Thank you as always.

They claim they measured prolactin , cortisol and TSH in this 1b clinical trial, but I couldnt find the values anywhere.
(A Phase 1B, randomized, double blind, placebo controlled, multiple-dose escalation study of NSI-189 phosphate, a neurogenic compound, in depressed patients)

Figure 3:
Here you can see that the long term responders have a permanently lowered cortisol level, even after 80-90 days (they stopped nsi after 28 days).
In partial responders (non-responders) cortisol level doesn't change , at all.
And in rapid responders, cortisol gets lowered rapidly, but increases again relatively quickly .

In table 1 they show the measured biomarkers , but as far as I can see there's no before and after ,just the baseline values from the different groups.

http://c.eqcdn.com/_c00d62288ce6987...stem/db/296/1153/pdf/5Nov14CNSSummitFinal.pdf

 

[LadyRae]

I used 500mg x2 for roughly 2 weeks. The main benefits I've noticed were feeling warmer and my tongue getting clearer, but I don't know if that's also because I've been tanning about 30 min each day, so my vit D is going up a lot. Since it's almost summer here, I've stopped because it's already hot and don't want to be hotter. I'll continue it again in the winter, so I picked a bad time to experiment with an uncoupler haha. But since I've stopped, I still feel great mood and excellent bowel health, which I'm not sure is due to the niclosamide, sunlight or both.

Thank you for this update @Hans ! (Bytheway, I'm "Tawni" asking questions in your podcasts?)

Yes, I have the warming effects too, and in general I feel euphoria all day, especially yesterday after having taken a 1 week break.

Winter is upon us here in North Western USA. We get lots of sunny days here and then some cloudy days and rain as well. Soon we will have snow hopefully as I do love to downhill ski in the mountains near our house. There is a medium sized Resort about half an hour away. I, too, utilize tanning beds in the winter time. I make sure to use the cheaper beds that have more UVB light. I also follow these sessions with 20 minutes in a full body red light bed. (660-680 nm)... It makes a huge difference in my mood and sleep. I've been doing this for over 25 years...

Enjoy your upcoming Summer!

Thanks again!

 

[ecstatichamster]

I haven’t noticed too much except potentially better bowel movements. Some unusual changes that seem helpful.

 

[Mauritio]

Does anybody know how to get more data out of this clinical trial ? It should long be over.
Why are there so manyclinical trials where we never see the results?
I even emailed one of the authors a week ago but haven't heard back from her.

I'd be thrilled to see how high dose niclosamide does long term in humans (with cancer)

Phase II trial to investigate the safety and efficacy of orally applied niclosamide in patients with metachronous or sychronous metastases of a colorectal cancer progressing after therapy: the NIKOLO trial - PubMed

The study is registered with ClinicalTrials.gov (NCT02519582) and the European Clinical Trials Database (EudraCT 2014-005151-20).

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

 

[Mauritio]

And of course Ray has an opinion on niclosamide ,too:

"I think it deserves more study, including for cancer treatment."

I continued the conversation with Ray on Niclosamide.
When I was asking for further therapeutic purposes (liver) he didnt seem so fond of it. Maybe he knows more than I know about niclosamide, but considering the studies that I saw ,this answer seems a little vague.
As I mention he had no problem dismissing in vitro anti-androgenic effects of vitamin E a few months earlier , but niclosamide is not safe because of the same in vitro anti-androgenic effect ... ?


Q: "Do you think it's good if someone wants to increase liver health / lean out the liver ?"

A: "No"

Q:" Because you think it's not effective or not safe ?"

A:"I don’t think it’s safe, including for the liver."

Q:"Why do you think so ?"

A:"Changes of androgen receptors."

Q:"Interesting you mention that. I've seen one in-vitro study on it in the context of prostate cancer.

How is this different to the studies on vitamin E (succinate) inhibiting the androgen receptor?
I remember you telling me that those kind of in-vitro studies don't really reflect what is going on inside of a human. "
-----------------------

He didn't answer that question anymore .

Here is the e-mail on vitamin E's anti-androgenicity that I was referring to:

Q:
I found this study that says vitamin E succinate inhibits the expression of the androgen receptor.
I can't really make sense of that. Would you say it's better to use another type of vitamin E ?


Vitamin E succinate inhibits the function of androgen receptor and the expression of prostate-specific antigen in prostate cancer cells


A: " In vitro cell studies aren’t relevant to its effects in a person. It has anti-inflammatory effects that would account for lowering PSA."


Q: I found studies showing beneficial effects against liver carcinoma and melanoma ,but in both cases only the succinate type was effective , no other type of Vitamin E .
Do you know why that is?"

A: " I think succinate might be functioning in a detoxifying reaction, increasing glucuronic acid."

 

[LadyRae]

I continued the conversation with Ray on Niclosamide.
When I was asking for further therapeutic purposes (liver) he didnt seem so fond of it. Maybe he knows more than I know about niclosamide, but considering the studies that I saw ,this answer seems a little vague.
As I mention he had no problem dismissing in vitro anti-androgenic effects of vitamin E a few months earlier , but niclosamide is not safe because of the same in vitro anti-androgenic effect ... ?


Q: "Do you think it's good if someone wants to increase liver health / lean out the liver ?"

A: "No"

Q:" Because you think it's not effective or not safe ?"

A:"I don’t think it’s safe, including for the liver."

Q:"Why do you think so ?"

A:"Changes of androgen receptors."

Q:"Interesting you mention that. I've seen one in-vitro study on it in the context of prostate cancer.

How is this different to the studies on vitamin E (succinate) inhibiting the androgen receptor?
I remember you telling me that those kind of in-vitro studies don't really reflect what is going on inside of a human. "
-----------------------

He didn't answer that question anymore .

Here is the e-mail on vitamin E's anti-androgenicity that I was referring to:

Yeah I agree that it doesn't make sense to say Niclosamide isn't safe, when it's mechanism in the liver is the same as vit E...

Perhaps he is just being cautious. Perhaps he can tell that you want him to endorse the Niclosamide, but he won't without more evidence... and we may not get more evidence considering that there is probably not a lot of money interest involved here.

By the way, I've lost 3 lb since starting it about a month ago. And I'm pretty sure I've been eating more besides.

 

[Mauritio]

Yeah I agree that it doesn't make sense to say Niclosamide isn't safe, when it's mechanism in the liver is the same as vit E...

Perhaps he is just being cautious. Perhaps he can tell that you want him to endorse the Niclosamide, but he won't without more evidence... and we may not get more evidence considering that there is probably not a lot of money interest involved here.

By the way, I've lost 3 lb since starting it about a month ago. And I'm pretty sure I've been eating more besides.

Yeah he's generally really cautious when it comes to recommending stuff.
So I think it might be that there's not much evidence for long term consumption in humans beeing safe (theres also not much evidence of it not beeing safe).

The only thing I found was in this study. Which was on cancer patients (N=2),who took a fairly high dose (3000mg /d) in combination with another drug.

"There were no dose-limiting toxicities (DLTs) in 3 patients on the 500mg TID cohort; however, both (N = 2) subjects on the 1000mg TID cohort experienced DLTs (prolonged grade 3 nausea, vomiting, diarrhea; and colitis)."

(A phase I study of niclosamide in combination with enzalutamide in men with castration-resistant prostate cancer)

 

[LadyRae]

Yeah he's generally really cautious when it comes to recommending stuff.
So I think it might be that there's not much evidence for long term consumption in humans beeing safe (theres also not much evidence of it not beeing safe).

The only thing I found was in this study. Which was on cancer patients (N=2),who took a fairly high dose (3000mg /d) in combination with another drug.

"There were no dose-limiting toxicities (DLTs) in 3 patients on the 500mg TID cohort; however, both (N = 2) subjects on the 1000mg TID cohort experienced DLTs (prolonged grade 3 nausea, vomiting, diarrhea; and colitis)."

(A phase I study of niclosamide in combination with enzalutamide in men with castration-resistant prostate cancer)

Last night, on Danny's newest podcast (73?) Georgi was discussing a study showing endotoxin cause cancers.. So, maybe those patients were experiencing major die-off symptoms?

 

[Mauritio]

Last night, on Danny's newest podcast (73?) Georgi was discussing a study showing endotoxin cause cancers.. So, maybe those patients were experiencing major die-off symptoms?

Possibly , the good thing is there were no such side effects at 1500mg and I think nobody of us takes that much .
And even if someone did I'm not sure if he/she would have the same side effects as a cancer patient ,that also takes another medication.

 

[Mauritio]

Just for the record : I stopped taking it about a week ago. The constipation just become too much .
I didnt loose any weight. My appetite seemed to favor carbs more than fats during that time.

I do miss some of its effect like the sleep reducing and especially the insane combo with nsi-189. Proably the best nootropic motivation enhancer I've ever tried. Only those two together though. Both on their own had some of the benefits, but together they really shine.
I think I've never had such an amount of drive and ambition to work towards my goals . It definitely made me more ambitious.

I might just try both 1 or 2 times per week. Makes me wonder what else to combine nsi with maybe just aspirin, doxycycline , racetams ... dont know yet.

NSI-189 is pretty new and not peat approved ,so do your own research (as always) .

 

[LadyRae]

I also stopped taking Niclosamide about a week ago. After 1.5 months of 1000mg/day, 2 500mg doses per day, I didn't notice much. And, my bottle cost $88, so. I have some left in case someone gets that super dangerous cold....?

Right now I'm taking a break from most supplements and some food items, in order to isolate what's causing my weird edema. Waking up with swollen hands, face. All-over swelling and puffiness increases throughout the day. Suspecting glycerin and artificial sweeteners...

 

[Shackles]

I also tried it for a whole week but it does not nothing except making me constipated. The constipation could be a loss of Serotonin because of dead bacterias but I did not feel better in any way

 

[Mauritio]

I also tried it for a whole week but it does not nothing except making me constipated. The constipation could be a loss of Serotonin because of dead bacterias but I did not feel better in any way

The constipation is because it inhibits ANO1 ,which leads to less smooth muscle contraction/peristalsis.

 

[db9]

Just for the record : I stopped taking it about a week ago. The constipation just become too much .
I didnt loose any weight. My appetite seemed to favor carbs more than fats during that time.

I do miss some of its effect like the sleep reducing and especially the insane combo with nsi-189. Proably the best nootropic motivation enhancer I've ever tried. Only those two together though. Both on their own had some of the benefits, but together they really shine.
I think I've never had such an amount of drive and ambition to work towards my goals . It definitely made me more ambitious.

I might just try both 1 or 2 times per week. Makes me wonder what else to combine nsi with maybe just aspirin, doxycycline , racetams ... dont know yet.

NSI-189 is pretty new and not peat approved ,so do your own research (as always) .

Whats your take on NSI-189 affecting some 5ht receptors like 3 and 7? Maybe that is why a lot of people feel increased anxiety.

 

[Mauritio]

Whats your take on NSI-189 affecting some 5ht receptors like 3 and 7? Maybe that is why a lot of people feel increased anxiety.

I dont think there's evidence for it. Only increased anxiety at the beginning for me.