Niagen Worth It Over Niacinamide?

Discussion in 'Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by Jewbermensch, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Jewbermensch

    Jewbermensch Member

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    A friend just recommended Niagen to me (nicotinamide riboside) and said research had shown it is more effective at increasing NAD levels than niacinamide. I was wondering if anybody had any experience trying niagen?
     
  2. Mito

    Mito Member

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    This has been discussed on the forum.

    “Yes, there are technically 3 precursors to NAD - niacinamide / nicotinamide, nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN), and nicotinamide riboside (NR). There are various companies making the claim that NR and NMN are somehow better at raising NAD but the animal studies I have seen show that all 3 are equally effective and niacinamide has some additional benefits like lowering cortisol and being an inhibitor of the sirtuins, that NR and NMN do not have much research on. I have tried all 3 and feel best on plain old niacinamide. So, when you factor in the price as well it really becomes a no-brainer what to take. At least to me :):

    Looks Like These Scientists Are Looking To Jump Into The Anti Aging Realm
     
  3. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    thats good to know since NR is far more expensive.
    What are your thoughts on PQQ, thymoquinone, and any other pro mitochondrial supplements. are these worth using. I heard K2, CoQ10, and PQQ all improve mitochondria through different mechanisms so you could combine the 3?
     
  4. matisvijs

    matisvijs Member

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    I find it weird that Ray thinks that niagen is possibly not absorbable at all (he voiced those concerns in an interview at least), as it has been shown in studies to clearly boost NAD levels. With that said though, you're probably better off with sticking with niacinamide in terms of price:effect ratio.
     
  5. Mito

    Mito Member

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    Peat has been asked about PQQ and doesn’t seem to have any interest in it. Here is one study that suggests caution with PQQ.
    Fluoride Now Officially Banned In India As A Known Toxin

    Someone asked about thymoquinone for IdeaLabs and here was the response:
    “We have thymoquinone but after Ray's comments and the fact that thymoquinone is not a more powerful electron withdrawing agent compared to emodin and beta lapachone (ingredients in Lapodin) there does not seem to be much reason to offer this. Maybe I can add it to Lapodin/Panquinone as yer another quinone. But I don't like adding things just for the heck of it so I am waiting for a study that shows a truly unique or very powerful effect.”
    Idealabs Comments And Suggestions
     
  6. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    Rays comments on thymoquinone were simply that its interesting but that he hasn't studied it right.

    Regarding that it looks like they just banned pqq since it didn't have established safety. Anyway the thing is i heard that coq10, k2, and pqq, all improve mitochondria via separate means, so it may be better to take the 3 than to only do 2 or 1?
     
  7. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    Can the emodin and beta lapachone be bought on Amazon
     
  8. Mito

    Mito Member

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  9. Mito

    Mito Member

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    CoQ10 and K2 help mitochondria function better by supporting the electron transport chain. PQQ is supposed to protect existing and stimulate the growth of new mitochondria.
     
  10. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    Btw I've heard beta alanine or carnosine or carnosine somehow improve the process? As well as b vitamins, selenium
     
  11. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    Could you give a list of the quinones in each of haiduts products. Also is there a general list of beneficial quinones on the site? I heard there was. I've heard of pau d arco, coq10, mk4, pqq, thymoquinone, and am wondering what other quinones are worth using.
     
  12. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    Where did you hear that? He has said the opposite. He's stated any of the 3 should work: niacinamide, NMN, NR.
     
  13. matisvijs

    matisvijs Member

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    Yeah, he was saying that for a good while but in one interview (I don't recall which one but was probably pretty recent) he stated that concern.
     
  14. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    Lol see I recently heard the opposite. I believe it was the radio one network interview, one of the recent ones.

    He expressed s concerns specifically regarding the resveratrol that may have been included in one of these products.
     
  15. matisvijs

    matisvijs Member

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    Well, I heard what i heard. The episode must've been relatively recent too as Niagen hasn't been around more than a few years.
     
  16. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    I think it was one of the researchers for niagen or someone else who mentioned that niacin and niacinamide over time and in high doses increase diabetes risk and make you less insulin sensitive while nicotinamide riboside makes you more insulin sensitive and reduces diabetes risk. there are some really positive anecdotes regarding niagen on reddit, one guy claimed he took niacinamide in the same (125 or 250mg) doses before and it wasn't close to nicotinamide riboside.
     
  17. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    I think the diabetes aspect is somewhat of an exaggeration but what is true about it mostly misses the true culprit. All niacin has a FFA rebound after about 3 hours of taking it so planning your macronutrients can be very helpful in avoiding problems. Apart from that, so many people have so much PUFA in their body that the FFA episodes, regardless if induced by niacin or not, in those cases are pretty horrific in terms of interference of good metabolism.
     
  18. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    but wouldn't PUFA be in your FFA even without niacin, or even more so in your FFA without niacin? If Niacin inhibits lipolysis it would also inhibit burning off PUFA right? So is niacin only meant to be used when you are already at the bodyfat% you want to be at, and are doing a lower fat, higher carb high protein diet. also what about nicotinamide riboside does that have the same effects as niacinamide? As far as inhibiting FFA and clearing out thyroid hormones from the bloodstream? Niacinamide had a hypothyroid effect on me when I was doing 100mg a day.
     
  19. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    I would say, and this is to everybody, going slow is most important. I have noticed with myself and every single person coaching them along, is that there is this hump we essentially all have to get over and it's a bit bumpy in the beginning. I have noticed people want results way too fast and it seems they may give up on the right path even if it comes across as "not working" initially. All these years with those interviews, Peat maybe should have been more explicit about this, I'm pretty sure he knew it would happen with practically everybody embarking on this path.

    Yes, exactly, PUFA would already be part of the FFA which is the worst feature of FFA. That was exactly the point I was making against the exaggerated idea that "niacinamide causes diabetes." The blood sugar issues probably will comes for many people initially. But also the matter of macronutrient timing and also basically having enough sugar (again, at the right time) will help ensure no problems or much less of them.

    Edit: Just to answer the question about NR vs niacinamide, it's really a matter of methyl groups and glycine balance. If somebody needs to balance methylation (note: not simply decrease or increase, but balance properly) and/or keep glycine replete, heavy niacinamide use then might heavily deplete methyl groups while using glycine to buffer them. So it's something to keep in mind.
     
  20. BigChad

    BigChad Member

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    isnt the only way to get rid of pufa, besides not eating more of them, is to burn them off? so wouldnt niacinamide discourage burning of pufa, and thus make you store pufa much longer than you should? I heard pufa burn quicker and before saturated fats are burned? someone else on here told me several people on here started gaining fat using larger doses of niacinamide and had to stop. I don't know if the ideal metabolism is achievable unless you totally remove PUFA? my point is it seems like niacinamide could be a negative for nearly everyone. if you consume extra sugar or extra calories simply to handle the increased niacinamide, wouldn't that cause more fat gain as well due to more calories.

    do you know if nicotinamide riboside would also have the anti thyroid, anti fat burning effects of regular nicotinamide/niacinamide
     
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