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Niacinamide

fr@

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Jun 18, 2021
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Thanks for bringing this up, though I don't have an idea
about its safety when you take 20-30 grams.

I've only experienced up to 2 grams though, but only got severe headaches,
I started with that dose as I was concerned about the Fibrosis thing.

Then days after that I kept lowering my dose, around
1.5 grams to 1 gram (still getting headaches but way less severe).

After a few more days I've decided to stick with just 500 mg,
then for a while I was noticing that I don't get excited about
anything all of the sudden (like my emotions were dull or something).

So now I'm just microdosing Niacinamide through out that day,
and seems to be working just fine -- like what Ray Peat said,
around 50-100 mg several times a day should be safe.

Also @youngsinatra responded to a Niacinamide post (I forgot what thread it was),
and mentioned something about using TMG to balance something when taking Niacinamide,
not sure if I got that right -- but for sure youngsinatra can clear this up.

[Excuse me for my not so related response.]
 

Hans

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Aug 24, 2017
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According to this study, 1.68g/kg was the LD50 for rate and 2.5mg/kg for mice. That puts the HED at around 0.18-0.24g/kg, which is about 16g for an 80kg individual. Most studies in humans use only up to 3g. Georgi used around 7-8g for a month or two. If the goal is to boost NAD, 1-2g daily for a few weeks should do the trick. No need to go higher with the dose.
 

youngsinatra

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If you are ingesting an excess of niacinamide, you don‘t use it as a supplement anymore to meet nutritional demands, that you are unable to reach with your diet, but rather you use it as a pharmacological agent. I am not against pharmaceutical compounds at all, just to make this clear.

If you ingest a lot of niacinamide, some amount will be converted into NAD+ but a lot of it will be de-activated and excreted by a process called methylation.
This deactivation consume methyl-groups in the process and if you have a significant enough deficiency of methyl-groups you can become undermethylated.

This will tend to show up in a profile of low serotonin, low dopamine, low norepinephrine and high histamines.
This can explain the flat mood (low dopamine) and headaches (high histamines). I also observed headaches at high doses of niacinamide and sometimes blood-shot eyes.

I speculate that in many health conditions niacinamide is therapeutic, specifically because it is a methyl-sink.
In this category I‘d include people with schizophrenia, psychosis, a sub-set of anxiety disorders, copper overload, intolerance to anti-histamines, tinnitus, dry eyes and mouth, nervous legs, free space floating anxiety, unexplained dizziness, ADD and low libido or inability to reach orgasm. These are conditions that are associated with overmethylation, the excess of methyl-groups. Which tends to show up in a profile of high serotonin, high dopamine, high norepinephrine and low histamines.

If you are not suffering from overmethylation I‘d use niacinamide in a 1:1 ratio with trimethylglycine (TMG) because it is a methyldonor directly.
I think a lot of flat mood or headache or other issues with NAM could be resolved that way.
 
Last edited:

milkboi

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If you are ingesting an excess of niacinamide, you don‘t use it as a supplement anymore to meet nutritional demands, that you are unable to reach with your diet, but rather you use it as a pharmacological agent. I am not against pharmaceutical compounds at all, just to make this clear.

If you ingest a lot of niacinamide, some amount will be converted into NAD+ but a lot of it will be de-activated and excreted by a process called methylation.
This deactivation consume methyl-groups in the process and if you have a significant enough deficiency of methyl-groups you can become undermethylated.

This will tend to show up in a profile of low serotonin, low dopamine, low norepinephrine and high histamines.
This can explain the flat mood (low dopamine) and headaches (high histamines). I also observed headaches at high doses of niacinamide and sometimes blood-shot eyes.

I speculate that in many health conditions niacinamide is therapeutic, specifically because it is a methyl-sink.
In this category I‘d include people with schizophrenia, psychosis, a sub-set of anxiety disorders, copper overload, intolerance to anti-histamines, tinnitus, dry eyes and mouth, nervous legs, free space floating anxiety, unexplained dizziness, ADD and low libido or inability to reach orgasm. These are conditions that are associated with overmethylation, the excess of methyl-groups. Which tends to show up in a profile of high serotonin, high dopamine, high norepinephrine and low histamines.

If you are not suffering from overmethylation I‘d use niacinamide in a 1:1 ratio with trimethylglycine (TMG) because it is a methyldonor directly.
I think a lot of flat mood or headache or other issues with NAM could be resolved that way.
Great post. Do you happen to know what the best way to prepare a niacinamide solution is?
 

youngsinatra

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Great post. Do you happen to know what the best way to prepare a niacinamide solution is?
Please explain me a bit further what you mean by niacinamide solution specifically. Do you mean a liquid solution of NAM, a serum or something in that type of category?
 

milkboi

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Please explain me a bit further what you mean by niacinamide solution specifically. Do you mean a liquid solution of NAM, a serum or something in that type of category?
Just a liquid solution to take orally as Niacinamide in powder form is by far the most cost effective way to take it.
 

youngsinatra

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Just a liquid solution to take orally as Niacinamide in powder form is by far the most cost effective way to take it.
Well I personally just use a encapsulated niacinamide product with no additives. I find this most convenient, especially because I am on the go quite a lot.

I think niacinamide should dissolve pretty well in warm water. I think it dissolves already at 20-30 degrees celsius. It is a pretty stable molecule.

„The vitamers thermal behavior were studied by TG/DTG and DSC under air and nitrogen atmosphere and the results showed that niacin is more stable than the niacinamide and the decomposition happens by volatilization at 238°C while niacinamide melts at 129°C and volatilize at 254°C when there is the total mass loss in the TG/DTG curves.“

I would use a 10% solution. So 100ml of warm water + 10g of niacinamide. Then consume 10ml for roughly 1 gram of niacinamide. Maybe a dropper bottle might be useful for this.

Or you could use a 5% solution with 5g of niacinamide and additional 5g of TMG.

This is completely hypothetical right now, because I never made one myself. So please don‘t hate me if something doesn‘t work in the process. :D
 

Jing

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Feb 18, 2018
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Thanks for bringing this up, though I don't have an idea
about its safety when you take 20-30 grams.

I've only experienced up to 2 grams though, but only got severe headaches,
I started with that dose as I was concerned about the Fibrosis thing.

Then days after that I kept lowering my dose, around
1.5 grams to 1 gram (still getting headaches but way less severe).

After a few more days I've decided to stick with just 500 mg,
then for a while I was noticing that I don't get excited about
anything all of the sudden (like my emotions were dull or something).

So now I'm just microdosing Niacinamide through out that day,
and seems to be working just fine -- like what Ray Peat said,
around 50-100 mg several times a day should be safe.

Also @youngsinatra responded to a Niacinamide post (I forgot what thread it was),
and mentioned something about using TMG to balance something when taking Niacinamide,
not sure if I got that right -- but for sure youngsinatra can clear this up.

[Excuse me for my not so related response.]
I've used 5 grams at once before with literally no bad or positive effects so was thinking off trying more.
 

youngsinatra

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I've used 5 grams at once before with literally no bad or positive effects so was thinking off trying more.
Have you tried lower doses beforehand? Or split doses?

You could try the Dr. Hoffer routine of 1500mg of niacinamide, three times a day, spaced 5 hours apart roughly, preferably after a carbohydrate-rich meal. I would be very surprised if you would feel nothing on this.

Ingesting a lot in a single dose probably only causes expensive megavitamin urine.
 

milkboi

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Joined
Sep 25, 2018
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T
Well I personally just use a encapsulated niacinamide product with no additives. I find this most convenient, especially because I am on the go quite a lot.

I think niacinamide should dissolve pretty well in warm water. I think it dissolves already at 20-30 degrees celsius. It is a pretty stable molecule.

„The vitamers thermal behavior were studied by TG/DTG and DSC under air and nitrogen atmosphere and the results showed that niacin is more stable than the niacinamide and the decomposition happens by volatilization at 238°C while niacinamide melts at 129°C and volatilize at 254°C when there is the total mass loss in the TG/DTG curves.“

I would use a 10% solution. So 100ml of warm water + 10g of niacinamide. Then consume 10ml for roughly 1 gram of niacinamide. Maybe a dropper bottle might be useful for this.

Or you could use a 5% solution with 5g of niacinamide and additional 5g of TMG.

This is completely hypothetical right now, because I never made one myself. So please don‘t hate me if something doesn‘t work in the process. :D
Thanks bruv
 

Jing

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Thread starter
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
2,382
Have you tried lower doses beforehand? Or split doses?

You could try the Dr. Hoffer routine of 1500mg of niacinamide, three times a day, spaced 5 hours apart roughly, preferably after a carbohydrate-rich meal. I would be very surprised if you would feel nothing on this.

Ingesting a lot in a single dose probably only causes expensive megavitamin urine.
Yh I've tried multiple smaller doses throughout the day aswell nothing lol
 

fr@

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Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
279
Age
26
Location
Gabriola
I've used 5 grams at once before with literally no bad or positive effects so was thinking off trying more.
Thanks for the personal anecdote.
I'll actually try what youngsinatra said on using TMG, since I already get headaches around 1g of Niacinamide.
 

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