Niacinamide Increases Homocysteine

[Zpol]

In this thread:
Is Betaine HCL A Safe Supplement?
Haidut said:
"A few recent human studies showed high homocystein is simply a symptom of vitamin B6 deficiency. So, you can try a bit of that if the goal is to reduce homocysteine. Glycine can lower both methionine and homocysteine, so that would be another thing to try."

I do in fact have low blood plasma B6. Unfortunately, I haven't found a supplement (p5p or otherwise) that doesn't cause headaches (but at the same times it helps my peripheral neuropathy, go figure). I will try Haidut's Energin next ,fingers crossed. I've tried almost every other brand. It's been a long standing problem for me. Coincidence?!? ... I think not.


All these little things are helpful clues. But it seems so counter intuitive to be taking so many supp's. I'm basically dependent on supp's now; I can't help but wonder how much different is this than taking pharmaceuticals?
Intuitively, and based on conclusions drawn from my research and personal accounts, it appears that the deficiencies (and the gene SNP's) are a downstream effect of an upstream problem, and so basically acting like a bandaid. Until I figure out the upstream problem I'm just going to be stacking up the supp's.

So far possible causes...
- hypoxia at birth (The Lifelong Effects of Perinatal Hypoxia)
- formula fed do to reflux and other issues as an infant
- traumatic childhood, depression (I'm over it now, I dealt with it; spirituality, restored a connection with nature, hypnotherapy, psychotherapy )
- A few ear infections as a child for which took antibiotics
- Scoliosis (but not too severe)
- Raised on typical SAD
- A lot of computer use and minimal sunlight/outdoor starting at the age of 17ish (1995), I'm now just approaching 39. (but people say I have beautiful skin and look younger than my little sis who live in Hawaii and is super tan; don't know what to make of that, she's way healthier)
- Underlying infections (Staph, and Strep) - ... had these for possibly a very long time.

For the last few weeks I've been trying to learn as much as possible about biochemistry and physics. Plus reading lots of Einstein (and so also Spinoza) as his thought experiments and creativity spark my own (and obviously overlaps with my attempt to learn and grasp physics).

It helps that I find it all very interesting. But it's hard to self-teach. I didn't get to finish college. Unfortunately, all the money I had saved to college and become a research scientist (dream job) ended up having to spend on medical bills, specialists, ND's, dietitians, chiropractors etc. Not complaining though... just sayin; I really appreciate everyone's help on this forum, there's a lot very intelligent people here. Also, this gives me extra motivation to find the causes and cures to this epidemic of hypothyroid/inefficient cellular respiration/metabolic disease. I don't want to ever hear about another young person having give up their education in order to afford health insurance or pay medical bills.

I'm not against supp's, just don't want to take them and end up never finding the root causes.

My next step is figuring this whole electron transfer chain. Electrons are about as fundamental as it gets so I figure it's a good place to start.
Yes, I have read a little bit of Jack Kruse as he has some great articles on the topic, however, I have a hard time separating his theories from his facts. He's a bit egotistical and has the tendency to state his theories as facts; this can be hard to spot without an understanding of biochem and physics. Also, he makes broad generalizations and does not give possible opposing viewpoints in his conclusion segments. And is obviously very wrong in starting his Epi-paleo diet fad/craze. Also, shame on him for basically telling sick people they'll never get better unless they move close to the equator. Sick people do in fact have limitations, some are all or partially bed-ridden and dependent on family and friends.
There is however, something important to know when it comes to electrons and sunlight/cellular water-conductivity/EMF/grounding/flouride (and it is not DHA). I will understand and figure out how to make it applicable to healing (...or perhaps I already know!).

 

[Mito]

For the last few weeks I've been trying to learn as much as possible about biochemistry and physics.
My next step is figuring this whole electron transfer chain. Electrons are about as fundamental as it gets so I figure it's a good place to start.

Have you checked out Chris Masterjohn's Master Class free video series? He's stepping through the entire energy metabolism system including TCA cycle, electron transport chain, etc. with all the biochemistry details.

 

[InChristAlone]

I do in fact have low blood plasma B6. Unfortunately, I haven't found a supplement (p5p or otherwise) that doesn't cause headaches (but at the same times it helps my peripheral neuropathy, go figure). I will try Haidut's Energin next ,fingers crossed. I've tried almost every other brand. It's been a long standing problem for me. Coincidence?!? ... I think not.


All these little things are helpful clues. But it seems so counter intuitive to be taking so many supp's. I'm basically dependent on supp's now; I can't help but wonder how much different is this than taking pharmaceuticals?
Intuitively, and based on conclusions drawn from my research and personal accounts, it appears that the deficiencies (and the gene SNP's) are a downstream effect of an upstream problem, and so basically acting like a bandaid. Until I figure out the upstream problem I'm just going to be stacking up the supp's.

So far possible causes...
- hypoxia at birth (The Lifelong Effects of Perinatal Hypoxia)
- formula fed do to reflux and other issues as an infant
- traumatic childhood, depression (I'm over it now, I dealt with it; spirituality, restored a connection with nature, hypnotherapy, psychotherapy )
- A few ear infections as a child for which took antibiotics
- Scoliosis (but not too severe)
- Raised on typical SAD
- A lot of computer use and minimal sunlight/outdoor starting at the age of 17ish (1995), I'm now just approaching 39. (but people say I have beautiful skin and look younger than my little sis who live in Hawaii and is super tan; don't know what to make of that, she's way healthier)
- Underlying infections (Staph, and Strep) - ... had these for possibly a very long time.

For the last few weeks I've been trying to learn as much as possible about biochemistry and physics. Plus reading lots of Einstein (and so also Spinoza) as his thought experiments and creativity spark my own (and obviously overlaps with my attempt to learn and grasp physics).

It helps that I find it all very interesting. But it's hard to self-teach. I didn't get to finish college. Unfortunately, all the money I had saved to college and become a research scientist (dream job) ended up having to spend on medical bills, specialists, ND's, dietitians, chiropractors etc. Not complaining though... just sayin; I really appreciate everyone's help on this forum, there's a lot very intelligent people here. Also, this gives me extra motivation to find the causes and cures to this epidemic of hypothyroid/inefficient cellular respiration/metabolic disease. I don't want to ever hear about another young person having give up their education in order to afford health insurance or pay medical bills.

I'm not against supp's, just don't want to take them and end up never finding the root causes.

My next step is figuring this whole electron transfer chain. Electrons are about as fundamental as it gets so I figure it's a good place to start.
Yes, I have read a little bit of Jack Kruse as he has some great articles on the topic, however, I have a hard time separating his theories from his facts. He's a bit egotistical and has the tendency to state his theories as facts; this can be hard to spot without an understanding of biochem and physics. Also, he makes broad generalizations and does not give possible opposing viewpoints in his conclusion segments. And is obviously very wrong in starting his Epi-paleo diet fad/craze. Also, shame on him for basically telling sick people they'll never get better unless they move close to the equator. Sick people do in fact have limitations, some are all or partially bed-ridden and dependent on family and friends.
There is however, something important to know when it comes to electrons and sunlight/cellular water-conductivity/EMF/grounding/flouride (and it is not DHA). I will understand and figure out how to make it applicable to healing (...or perhaps I already know!).

I agree shame on Kruse for saying sick people have to move to the equator. I was blocked by him when I told a lady she could improve where she was living. I do like his light stuff though. I've been trying to get more morning and evening sunlight (along with uvb during solar noon).

 

[Zpol]

Have you checked out Chris Masterjohn's Master Class free video series? He's stepping through the entire energy metabolism system including TCA cycle, electron transport chain, etc. with all the biochemistry details.

Thanks! This sounds awesome. I'm definitely going to check this out.

I agree shame on Kruse for saying sick people have to move to the equator. I was blocked by him when I told a lady she could improve where she was living. I do like his light stuff though. I've been trying to get more morning and evening sunlight (along with uvb during solar noon).

Good for you... I hope that lady saw your post before you got blocked. So sad his organization has to be like that.
Me too... already started having my morning coffee out on the deck, and stepping outside around noon (as my circumstances allow). Also, I'm going to invest in some nice blue-blockers for at work. I am a graphic artist. Some of my co-workers wear them and love them; they claim it helps their eyes feel less strained. It'll be interesting since a large part of my job is maintaining color accuracy with 2 Delta E, and making sure images look their natural color; not sure how the amber cast will affect that. Maybe just take them off when dealing with certain hues.

 

[managing]

I do in fact have low blood plasma B6. Unfortunately, I haven't found a supplement (p5p or otherwise) that doesn't cause headaches (but at the same times it helps my peripheral neuropathy, go figure). I will try Haidut's Energin next ,fingers crossed. I've tried almost every other brand. It's been a long standing problem for me. Coincidence?!? ... I think not.


All these little things are helpful clues. But it seems so counter intuitive to be taking so many supp's. I'm basically dependent on supp's now; I can't help but wonder how much different is this than taking pharmaceuticals?
Intuitively, and based on conclusions drawn from my research and personal accounts, it appears that the deficiencies (and the gene SNP's) are a downstream effect of an upstream problem, and so basically acting like a bandaid. Until I figure out the upstream problem I'm just going to be stacking up the supp's.

So far possible causes...
- hypoxia at birth (The Lifelong Effects of Perinatal Hypoxia)
- formula fed do to reflux and other issues as an infant
- traumatic childhood, depression (I'm over it now, I dealt with it; spirituality, restored a connection with nature, hypnotherapy, psychotherapy )
- A few ear infections as a child for which took antibiotics
- Scoliosis (but not too severe)
- Raised on typical SAD
- A lot of computer use and minimal sunlight/outdoor starting at the age of 17ish (1995), I'm now just approaching 39. (but people say I have beautiful skin and look younger than my little sis who live in Hawaii and is super tan; don't know what to make of that, she's way healthier)
- Underlying infections (Staph, and Strep) - ... had these for possibly a very long time.

For the last few weeks I've been trying to learn as much as possible about biochemistry and physics. Plus reading lots of Einstein (and so also Spinoza) as his thought experiments and creativity spark my own (and obviously overlaps with my attempt to learn and grasp physics).

It helps that I find it all very interesting. But it's hard to self-teach. I didn't get to finish college. Unfortunately, all the money I had saved to college and become a research scientist (dream job) ended up having to spend on medical bills, specialists, ND's, dietitians, chiropractors etc. Not complaining though... just sayin; I really appreciate everyone's help on this forum, there's a lot very intelligent people here. Also, this gives me extra motivation to find the causes and cures to this epidemic of hypothyroid/inefficient cellular respiration/metabolic disease. I don't want to ever hear about another young person having give up their education in order to afford health insurance or pay medical bills.

I'm not against supp's, just don't want to take them and end up never finding the root causes.

My next step is figuring this whole electron transfer chain. Electrons are about as fundamental as it gets so I figure it's a good place to start.
Yes, I have read a little bit of Jack Kruse as he has some great articles on the topic, however, I have a hard time separating his theories from his facts. He's a bit egotistical and has the tendency to state his theories as facts; this can be hard to spot without an understanding of biochem and physics. Also, he makes broad generalizations and does not give possible opposing viewpoints in his conclusion segments. And is obviously very wrong in starting his Epi-paleo diet fad/craze. Also, shame on him for basically telling sick people they'll never get better unless they move close to the equator. Sick people do in fact have limitations, some are all or partially bed-ridden and dependent on family and friends.
There is however, something important to know when it comes to electrons and sunlight/cellular water-conductivity/EMF/grounding/flouride (and it is not DHA). I will understand and figure out how to make it applicable to healing (...or perhaps I already know!).

Before I was taking Energin B6 (p5p) gave me headaches AND didn't stop the hives/itching. Now it does not give me headaches and it does stop the hives. I am sure there are others just as good in terms of quality as Energin, but I think he's really got the ratios right. For the avg pop and perhaps MTHFR snps need more p5p.

I've also been using been having great effects from Defibron. Do you get intestinal symptoms or low blood sugar?

 

[Nokoni]

Maybe just take them off

>Forgets to take blue blockers off, finishes project

"There, perfect, click send, Miller time."

>Client opens, sees this:

>Zpol answers phone, says "Hey, pretty sweet huh?" "Dude, you made her an alien!"

how much different is this than taking pharmaceuticals?

It's not, except many of these supplements actually help restore health. If I'm already in perfect health then merely living la vida Peata might keep me that way, but I need to restore my health. Methylene Blue is the perfect example. Not even natural at all, a friggin' industrial chemical. But wow does it work. Energizes all cells in your body. Which, to me, gives the body a better chance to then fix the upstream stuff itself. I try to stay safe, but it's easy to overlook the risk of doing nothing, which is far from negligible.

Chris Masterjohn's Master Class free video series

Wow, very nice.

 

[Zpol]

Do you get intestinal symptoms or low blood sugar?

I didn't experience any noticeable worsening of intestinal symptoms or low blood sugar from any of the B6 products I've tried so far. But that's not to say they weren't happening. My theory is that my poor digestion and poor ability to metabolise and absorb nutrients is what was causing the relatively 'clean' sources of B6 P5P to cause the headaches. I will be taking the Energin topically instead of orally to bypass this. Also hoping the elevating of homocysteine effect of Niacinamide will be mitigated by taking it topically. I have not taken the time to sort through all studies on Niacinamide raising plasma homocysteine to find one using topical application, I kinda doubt I will find one. Do you take Energin topically?
As for blood sugar, I didn't notice any correlations of low blood sugar and B6 supplementation, but I did intentionally take it with meals so that might have affected it's effects on my blood sugar.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Also with Defibron... I will try this too, glad to hear your success with this!

 

[Zpol]

>Zpol answers phone, says "Hey, pretty sweet huh?" "Dude, you made her an alien!"

@Don ... I just LOL'd!!!!

It's not, except many of these supplements actually help restore health. If I'm already in perfect health then merely living la vida Peata might keep me that way, but I need to restore my health. Methylene Blue is the perfect example. Not even natural at all, a friggin' industrial chemical. But wow does it work. Energizes all cells in your body. Which, to me, gives the body a better chance to then fix the upstream stuff itself. I try to stay safe, but it's easy to overlook the risk of doing nothing, which is far from negligible.

Good points. Thanks you for sharing this perspective.

 

[Nokoni]

@Don ... I just LOL'd!!!!



Good points. Thanks you for sharing this perspective.

:)

 

[managing]

I didn't experience any noticeable worsening of intestinal symptoms or low blood sugar from any of the B6 products I've tried so far. But that's not to say they weren't happening. My theory is that my poor digestion and poor ability to metabolise and absorb nutrients is what was causing the relatively 'clean' sources of B6 P5P to cause the headaches. I will be taking the Energin topically instead of orally to bypass this. Also hoping the elevating of homocysteine effect of Niacinamide will be mitigated by taking it topically. I have not taken the time to sort through all studies on Niacinamide raising plasma homocysteine to find one using topical application, I kinda doubt I will find one. Do you take Energin topically?
As for blood sugar, I didn't notice any correlations of low blood sugar and B6 supplementation, but I did intentionally take it with meals so that might have affected it's effects on my blood sugar.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Also with Defibron... I will try this too, glad to hear your success with this!

I take energin orally. No problem. I spread it out-- 10 to 15 drops per meal.

On the p5p question, I didn't mean to connect those two questions. I asked about the BG and intestinal symptons in regard to defibron. It fixes those two things up very nicely for me.

 

[ddjd]

apparantly not good to take tmg if your cholesterol is high

 

[Zpol]

I take energin orally. No problem. I spread it out-- 10 to 15 drops per meal.

On the p5p question, I didn't mean to connect those two questions. I asked about the BG and intestinal symptons in regard to defibron. It fixes those two things up very nicely for me.

Oh heh! I see! Thanks for clarifying. I'm looking forward to my next Idealabs shipment. That's great news about the defibron.
In addition to Defibron and Engergin, I'm going to start with the Lapodin and Oxidial as well. I plan to start with the Energin, give it a week, then add the others one by one. I already take Pansterone and EstroBan and they have been amazing at helping me eliminate night sweats, and no side effects! Although, despite the EstroBan my Vit. D is still low so might take an additional Thorne D+K2.

apparantly not good to take tmg if your cholesterol is high

Good to know. I think I'm going to be skipping this. Too many downsides, not worth the upside of reducing Homocysteine.

 

[managing]

I plan to start with the Energin, give it a week, then add the others one by one.

VERY good strategy.

Pansterone didn't help with the night sweats for me last night. But maybe that is because my wife pulled up the down comforter in the middle of the night, LOL. Woke up drenched in sweat and confused about the heavy weight on top of me (damn thing weighs a ton).

 

[Zpol]

LOL! yea, those things will make you toasty for sure! Fortunately, my boyfriend is one of those people who steals covers.. and I don't even care!
There's some other things that I started doing in addition to the EstroBan , Pansterone, and less covers at night, that is wearing a tank top (even t-shirts are too hot) but this is the weird thing... wool socks. I don't know why, but it seems to help to keep my torso cool but my feet warm. The wool socks was a tip from RP (can't remember which article or radio broadcast), he also mentioned a wool hat but I don't do this. I do have Raynaud's syndrome so this might be a factor. It's either one of these things or a combination that's working for me, don't know but I'm loving getting some quality sleep that's for sure!

 

[Mito]