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Niacinamide Can Help Treat Highly Drug-resistant Bacterial Infections

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I would like to see a study on the combined administration of niacinamide and methylene blue, and maybe even throw some red light in there. I bet the results would be even more impressive.

    Vitamin to the rescue in fight with ‘superbugs’

    "...High doses of vitamin B3 may help fight against so called "superbugs" such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), show study results. In a trial carried out in mice, and on human and murine blood cells, Pierre Kyme (Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, California, USA) and colleagues found that high doses of nicotinamide (vitamin B3) stimulated expression of the CCAAT/enhancer-binding protein ε gene (C/EBPε), thus improving the ability of white blood cells to combat S. aureus infections. "It's critical that we find novel antimicrobial approaches to treat infection and not rely so heavily on antibiotics," said co-author of the Journal of Clinical Investigation study George Liu, also from Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, in a press statement."
     
  2. raypeatclips

    raypeatclips Member

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    JCI - C/EBPε mediates nicotinamide-enhanced clearance of Staphylococcus aureus in mice

    That is the study. Not sure if it's the only dose they used, but they used niacinamide at 250mg/kg injected.

    "To test the critical role of C/EBPε in NAM-augmented killing in vivo, we injected WT and Cebpe–/– mice daily with either NAM (250 mg/kg) or PBS i.p., starting 24 hours prior to systemic (i.p.) infection with S. aureus. This dose has routinely and safely been used in other studies (48, 49). Strikingly, after 48 hours, WT mice treated with NAM showed approximately 100-fold lower S. aureus CFUs in the spleens and kidneys compared with that in PBS controls (Figure 3E)."
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    So, the niacinamide was injected intraperitoneally, which is almost the same as oral. A dose of 250mg/kg in mice would be about 125mg/kg in rat, which makes a HED of about 1.2g - 1.5g for a human. Not a high dose at all!
     
  4. PakPik

    PakPik Member

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    This is not correct. The pharmacokinetics of Niacinamide are very different in humans vs. mice:

    "However, studies have noted that the pharmacokinetics of NAM in humans and mice are quite different. In one report, an equivalent peak serum level was achieved with a dose of 80 to 90 mg/kg in humans and 171 mg/kg in mice"
    They did human peripheral blood assays using a concentration of 1 nM of niacinamide which showed great anti-S. aureus activity:

    "In these trials, a plasma concentration of 1 mM NAM is routinely achieved, a concentration that we used in our peripheral whole blood killing assays to demonstrate NAM efficacy. Therefore, our data suggest that a NAM concentration safely achievable in humans could provide protection against S. aureus infection."
    The trials they are referring to achieved concentrations of 1nM or more by oral administration of around 5000 mg-6000 mg of niacinamide on a single oral dose (I've seen another reference where splitting the niacinamide in multiple doses, which failed to reach the 1 nM concentration, did not achieve the anti-staph aureus effect). So this concentration seems to be key.
     
  5. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, if the effective concentration was 1mM then 5g-6g of niacinamide are needed. You mentioned 1 nM, which I assume was typo, right? Also, the antibacterial effects could be due in part to higher NAD levels and raising NAD through niacinamide in both mice and humans has pretty similar pharmacokinetics.
    Anyways, thanks for pointing it out and btw even 5g-6g of niacinamide as a single dose or taken for just a few days is probably still pretty safe. In one toxicity study it took 5g of niacinamide daily for 4 weeks to cause minor liver enzyme elevations in about 20% of the patients. I am assuming the antibacterial treatment will only last a few days (maybe up to a week) similar to what is done with antibiotics.
     
  6. PakPik

    PakPik Member

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    I mentioned first 1 mM , the second time where I said 1 nM was a typo.

    According to the mechanisms in the study we're discussing it doesn't have to do with what you're mentioning. They specifically talked about epigenetic mechanisms on neutrophils due to HDAC inhibition, and 1 mM is a concentration where such changes are viable (if the concentration is lower than that those specific epigenetic changes on neutrophils won't happen). For antibiotic resistant staph. aureus the studies suggest this is the necessary mechanism; however, for other pathogens other mechanisms achieved with lower concentrations may help.

    Do you have any study explaining antibacterial effects of higher NAD? I've never encountered such information, but I would love to know about that.

    I've personally taken single doses like that since I've battled with old infections. It can be hard on the stomach and it certainly tastes bad!, but I am so grateful niacinamide has helped me a lot.
     
  7. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The studies I have seen on NAD benefits were mostly for anaerobic bacteria (which MRSA is). Usually anaerobic bacteria do not do well in an oxidized environment, which is what the raised NAD levels will achieve.
    I will dig them out and post here.
     
  8. MB50

    MB50 Member

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    I'm wondering how you felt after doses like that? Was it extremely sedating? Any noticible positive side effects or other negatives? Thanks.
     
  9. PakPik

    PakPik Member

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    Well, in a way such a high dose was sedating, but not completely; when I took such dose for several days it prompted of course an immune attack towards infections which felt like thunders and bolts due to the massive die off I experienced (besides attacking pathogenic bacteria, it also attacks fungus, even some protozoans and viruses). So it was really stressful, I felt really sick almost in a shock state -very low blood pressure, resting heart rate over 160 bpm, I felt toxic all over and just collapsed, horrible acute pains especially in the tissues more affected by infections, etc...). I felt I was dying. This of course sounds like a negative thing all over, but to me the positive overpowered by far. Together with aspirin in the appropriate doses as well, it helped me start breaking the out of control chronic infections.

    When I did this strong course of niacinamide, I also took high doses of aspirin, so I don't know how niacinamide would have affected me exactly if I had done it by itself. I also took progesterone and cyproheptadine, which protected me from a potentially dangerous excessive inflammatory response due to the sudden massive amount of antigenic material invading the bloodstream.

    Just my experience! :)
     
  10. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    What was your protocol? I also do 3 grams of niacinimide a day in 3 doses (1/1/1). I noticed a die off too (i felt like i had the flu) but after about a week it fixed my digestion, I was suprised. I want to add in aspirin too. What doses did you do of aspirin when you used it with niacinimide? I was thinking of combing the two.
     
  11. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    very interested in your results...
     
  12. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    Is it dose dependent ? for example, would taking 12 grams of niacinamide at once be twice as effective as taking 6 grams at once?
     
  13. beta pandemic

    beta pandemic Member

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  14. Soren

    Soren Member

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    Has niacinamide ever been shown to treat e.coli, or assist with spinal infections?
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The treatment was just for 3 days. They did not test higher doses as the 1mM was effective, so not sure why you need the 12g. I think 5g-6g as a single dose for 2-3 days is excellent as it was both effective and reduced the risk of liver enzyme elevation from higher doses niacinamide. For comparison, most antibiotic treatments last at least 7 days and often 10-14 days. Not to mention that may of the those antibiotics have terrible side effects (especially the newer ones like the fluoroquinolones) that make niacinamide pale in comparison even when used in very high doses.
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Have not seen much evidence for that. Spinal infections are relatively rare and the antibiotics for them are usually given IV and in high doses. So, I doubt there will be a study specifically with niacinamide for spinal infections.
     
  17. Soren

    Soren Member

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    Thanks Haidut, do you think that there would be any harm in taking it in addition to antibiotics? I also saw your posting in April about B2 being helpful for infections, any thoughts on that also? Thanks.

    I just started a specific thread that goes into detail about why I am looking into this, you can find it here if you're interested, Spinal infection Possibly E.Coli, please help.
     
  18. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Doctors commonly prescribe B vitamins to people taking antibiotics since the bacteria in the gut getting killed leads to less B vitamins being synthesized. I don't know if that high dose would have an interaction with the antibiotics but you can ask the doctor. There are many other things that have antibacterial effect, including lowish dose aspirin, methylene blue (especially in combination with bright light), etc. I am not sure what the antibiotics suggested for this are but I would probably consider them first and the add these things as needed. No need to rule out effective therapy if one exists.
     
  19. Jsaute21

    Jsaute21 Member

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    @haidut my fiance just got tested during her yearly physical and TSH came back at 1.8, bad cholesterol is 111, "good cholesterol" is 94 and white blood cell count is low. She thinks she has an infection which i tend to agree with. Any recommendations besides energin and oxidal to improve the infection?
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I would do a few tests a few weeks apart before doing any intervention. WBC can drop temporarily from something as simple as temporary jump in cortisol or a few hypoglycemia episodes. If it is confirmed as low, I would do a few tests for common viruses like herpes, JCB, and EBV and if those come back high then maybe try 5mg MB combined with red light exposure for 30min or a few hours under bright sunlight.
     
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