Niacin Vs Niacinamide

[EndAllDisease]

A few years ago I read the book 'Niacin: The Real Story' by Dr. Abram Hoffer.
I liked what I read, decided to try it, and bought bulk powder 'niacinamide' online.

Yesterday I was listening to a podcast with Ray and he said something that concerns me. I think according to Hoffer, the flush kind is good, and so that's what I bought.

Peat said that the 'flush' type, which he called nicotinic acid, makes your skin red and feel hot increases serotonin and the breakdown of pufa into FFA. The stuff I bought is labelled 'niacinamide', yet it causes flushing, so I am confused and I think maybe it was mislabelled and I've been taking the wrong kind.

Would love to hear your collective thoughts on this.

 

[whodathunkit]

Judging from the results of a high-dose, full-flush niacin experiment I did on myself last fall, I think Peat is spot on about serotonin and PUFA in relation to it. I tend to forget about this experiment because it was a one-off, but the metabolic slowdow I experienced at the end of last year actually started with that, not the very low fat/starch I tried not long after. The niacin experiment very detrimentally affected thyroid function (started getting cold) and also destabilized my formerly pretty good mood.

That said, I don't react very well to niacinimide, either. I've tried it lately because of Peat's recommendations, but it just doesn't seem to agree. Even small amounts will tank my mood over time. I'm guessing now that may be because I'm still loaded with PUFA even if not as loaded as I used to be.

Point is I think they both can do the same thing as far as PUFA/FFA release, even if niacinimide is a bit gentler and may have somewhat of a different action.

Just my $0.02. Hopefully the smart people will chime in, too.

 

[marteagal]

Point is I think they both can do the same thing as far as PUFA/FFA release, even if niacinimide is a bit gentler and may have somewhat of a different action.

I thought niacinamide would lower FFA levels by inhibition of lipolysis [Vitamin B3 blocks FFA elevation caused by caffeine].

 

[jyb]

Point is I think they both can do the same thing as far as PUFA/FFA release, even if niacinimide is a bit gentler and may have somewhat of a different action.

B3 in quantities found in supplements potently reduces any FFA and therefore fat oxidation.

 

[paymanz]

i think @FlatEarth is worry that the sup he bought is not really niacinamide and is niacin.then maybe best thing to do is to buying another niacinamide from other brand and see if you get those responses again or not.i think with niacinamide getting temps high is normal but not flushings.


niacin reduces FFA for short time and then the rebound effect make the FFA to raise higher than it was before supplement, which is bad thing.but with niacinamide that problem doesnt exist.

 

[BastiFuntasty]

What's the difference in those versions? Both are listed as C6H6NO2 here.

 

[mt_dreams]

unless you're getting the hot skin on fire feeling, it's not niacin. i too have had some skin flushing in the past when i've taken niacinamide.

 

[EndAllDisease]

What I gather from your responses is that flushing is normal with niacinamide at a high enough dose.

I forgot to mention one very important factor.
I bought the niacinamide powder because I wanted a clean supplement for once with no adjuvants in the capsules or powder, either labelled or off label.
I purchased 100% gelatin capsules and a capsule filler. The problem is the capsules are 1gram, so I've been getting the flushing effect from and have been taking 1gram of niacinamide at a time. Is this dose too high for anyone?

Also, I've noticed after taking it, I laid in the sun and any sunlight on my skin felt instantly like I was burning.

 

[keith]

What I gather from your responses is that flushing is normal with niacinamide at a high enough dose.

I forgot to mention one very important factor.
I bought the niacinamide powder because I wanted a clean supplement for once with no adjuvants in the capsules or powder, either labelled or off label.
I purchased 100% gelatin capsules and a capsule filler. The problem is the capsules are 1gram, so I've been getting the flushing effect from and have been taking 1gram of niacinamide at a time. Is this dose too high for anyone?

Also, I've noticed after taking it, I laid in the sun and any sunlight on my skin felt instantly like I was burning.

I believe I read somewhere in the Ray Peat email thread that he recommended something like 70-80 mg doses. I know 500 mg doses make me feel ill. I think 1 gram is a very large dose. Everyone is different, but that would be way too much for me. I'll see if I can find the email post for context.

 

[keith]

I get no flushing from niacinamide, by the way, but significant flushing from regular niacin. The aren't the same.

 

[keith]

Here is the one I was remembering. 50-75 mg not the 70-80 I remembered. The question was about a good starting dose.

Dear Ray,

I am wondering what kind of dose of pregnenolone is a good starting point and also niacinamide?

I have type one diabetes and would like to try them to help with menses pain, night sweats and easy bruising.

I already take cynoplus, Vit k plus Vit a, d and e on my skin.

I also am trying to find a good source of aspirin to help diabetes, but most UK brands have talc in them and other additives.

Ray Peat said:
Pure aspirin is available by the kilogram. 30 mg of pregnenolone without excipients is o.k.; niacinamide should be tried for allergy reaction, but if there's no reaction, 50 to 75 mg with each meal might help to regulate glucose.

 

[ejalrp]

The two terms are sometimes used interchangeably but they are not identical supplements. They both will treat B-3 deficiency. Niacin has a well-documented ability to lower LDL cholesterol at doses of 3 grams and up (and raises HDL slightly). Niacinamide does not do that. "When niacin takes on an amide group, its cholesterol-lowering effects are inhibited, says Dr. Paul Jaconello of Toronto, Ontario, in the "Journal of the Canadian Medical Association."

 

[Luann]

All I have right now is Niacin. Is it bad to take this, or just not as helpful as niacinamide?

 

[TreasureVibe]

Bump!

 

[mrchibbs]

Niacin is excellent. Abram Hoffer and most of the orthomolecular medecine community tended to prefer it over niacinamide.
But you have to get over the flush reaction, which takes a little while. Start slow, with a meal and increase the amount over time.
There is a lot of excellent info on niacin/niacinamide/vitamin B3 @ doctoryourself.com

 

[Kray]

Niacin is excellent. Abram Hoffer and most of the orthomolecular medecine community tended to prefer it over niacinamide.
But you have to get over the flush reaction, which takes a little while. Start slow, with a meal and increase the amount over time.
There is a lot of excellent info on niacin/niacinamide/vitamin B3 @ doctoryourself.com

@mrchibbs
Can you update on niacin? Is it still your choice over niacinamide? I'm still not sure about the FFA/PUFA connection with niacin, and I have just switched to majority niacin v niacinamide to see if it helps with fat loss, per others' comments.

Thanks!

 

[GenericName86]

Niacin is excellent. Abram Hoffer and most of the orthomolecular medecine community tended to prefer it over niacinamide.
But you have to get over the flush reaction, which takes a little while. Start slow, with a meal and increase the amount over time.
There is a lot of excellent info on niacin/niacinamide/vitamin B3 @ doctoryourself.com

When I used Niacin I actually loved the flushing, felt so good to feel it kick in then massage my head, idk why it felt so good lol. the increased blood flow? idk.

 

[Kray]

When I used Niacin I actually loved the flushing, felt so good to feel it kick in then massage my head, idk why it felt so good lol. the increased blood flow? idk.

Did you stop taking it? If so, why?

 

[GenericName86]

Did you stop taking it? If so, why?

I switched to niacinamide because it seemed to be recommended the most on here over niacin. I don't feel the effect from niacinamide as much as niacin but thats not to say it isn't doing anything.

 

[Dr. B]

@mrchibbs
Can you update on niacin? Is it still your choice over niacinamide? I'm still not sure about the FFA/PUFA connection with niacin, and I have just switched to majority niacin v niacinamide to see if it helps with fat loss, per others' comments.

Thanks!

Niacin or niacinamide lower free fatty acids or at least niacinamide does. They could help with fat loss if your metabolism is messed up and drastically improves from the b3. But they wont increase fat burning the way caffeine or thyroid would… at least not niacinamide. But regardless boosting fat oxidation doesnt automatically mean you will actually burn fat off the body or get leaner which is what most people mean when they say faf loss… its all about how much fat as well as sugar youre burning… if youre burning lots of fat but storing all the carbs and sugars as fat or converting tissues to sugars and then fat, then you could end up fatter

i think @FlatEarth is worry that the sup he bought is not really niacinamide and is niacin.then maybe best thing to do is to buying another niacinamide from other brand and see if you get those responses again or not.i think with niacinamide getting temps high is normal but not flushings.


niacin reduces FFA for short time and then the rebound effect make the FFA to raise higher than it was before supplement, which is bad thing.but with niacinamide that problem doesnt exist.

so only niacin has the rebound FFA effect, how come niacinamide doesnt have that since niacinamide also reduces FFA?