Niacin/Niacinamide's Effect On Blood Sugar?

[Queequeg]

RP has said that Niacinamide lowers PUFA/FFA in the blood and that this helps restart glucose metabolism. “The competition between fatty acids and glucose, which has been called the “Randle cycle” for about 50 years, can be applied to the treatment of diabetes and other degenerative/stress problems by adjusting the diet, or by using supplements such as niacinamide and aspirin, which improve glucose oxidation by lowering the free fatty acids in the serum.” RP

However when one looks at the scientific studies, they say that Niacinamide actually increases blood sugar. Can somebody please clarify this one?

 

[Giraffe]

However when one looks at the scientific studies, they say that Niacinamide actually increases blood sugar. Can somebody please clarify this one?

Most of the the studies mentioned here reported a decrease in blood sugar, none reported an increase.

Can you link the studies you are talking about?

 

[Queequeg]

After looking at the issue some more, it seems that niacinamide does in deed lower glucose levels but does so by increasing insulin and can negatively impact glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. Some studies claim that this can trigger type 2 diabetes.

Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet
Niacin, Oxidative Stress, and Glucose Regulation
The Chinese researchers note that niacin affects both appetite and glucose metabolism:
[N]iacin is a potent stimulator of appetite and niacin deficiency may lead to appetite loss [10]. Moreover, large doses of niacin have long been known to impair glucose tolerance [23,24], induce insulin resistance and enhance insulin release [25,26].

Is nicotinamide overload a trigger for type 2 diabetes? https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091222105449.htm

Linus Pauling Institute Niacin
An analysis of 10 published trials (5 placebo-controlled) found evidence of improved β-cell function after one year of treatment with nicotinamide, but the analysis failed to find any clinical evidence of improved glycemic (blood glucose) control (48). However, high doses of nicotinamide could decrease insulin sensitivity in high-risk relatives of IDDM patients (49), which might explain the finding of improved β-cell function without concomitant improvement in glycemic control.
48 The Deutsche Nicotinamide Intervention Study: an attempt to prevent type 1 diabetes. DENIS Group. - PubMed - NCBI
49 Nicotinamide's effects on glucose metabolism in subjects at risk for IDDM. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[ecstatichamster]

I find higher doses of niacinamide lower blood sugar quite dramatically.

 

[Mittir]

There are several post about people taking huge dose ( 1 to 3 grams) of Niacinamide
without any blood sugar problem. There are many post where people felt
terrible taking small dose of niacinamid. RP recommends taking niacinaimide
with food. Some people found out that they need to eat a lot more when they
are lowering free fatty acids by taking niacinamide. If liver glycogen storage
is low, body will raise cortisol to supply sugar by breaking down muscle.
Cortisol also increases blood sugar by decreasing use of sugar.

I started with 50 mg of niacinamide and i ate frequently
to maintain steady blood sugar. I raised doses slowly and
eventually settled on 100 mg 2-3 times a day. Since PUFA
damages liver and restricting PUFA with niacinamide
should improve liver function. I was able to eat less
frequently after few months of taking Niacinamide.
Blood sugar response to Niacinamide would vary
depending on one's over all health, especially liver function.

 

[Queequeg]

I should also add the websites that led me to believe that niacin raises glucose are here:
Oftentimes it is unclear if they are using niacin as a generic term and mean niacinamide or nicotinic acid but even if they mean nicotinic acid that conflicts with some of the other studies saying that it lowers blood glucose.

Niacin (vitamin B3, nicotinic acid), Niacinamide Evidence - Mayo Clinic
Limited research shows unclear effects of niacin on outcomes of type 2 diabetes. Human research has also shown that niacin increases blood sugar levels. People should seek medical advice before starting niacin. Further research is needed to draw conclusions.

Vitamin B3 (Niacin)
Niacin may increase blood sugar levels. People taking insulin, metformin (Glucophage), glyburide (Dibeta, Micronase), glipizide (Glucotrol), or other medications used to treat high blood glucose levels should monitor their blood sugar levels closely when taking niacin supplements.

Niacin could be diabetes treatment
Niacin, the B vitamin which is known to raise blood glucose levels when consumed in large quantities - making it inappropriate for use as a diabetes treatment - could in fact be effective in treating the disease, provided the dosage is small enough.

 

[ecstatichamster]

It inhibits lipolysis, so cells that are energetically low may be incapable of metabolizing blood glucose easily, and that may account for raising blood sugars in the short term.

 

[sladerunner69]

I am looking into using niacianamide but found some disturbing studies on how it may reduce glucose toleration and insulation sensitivity. Some studies claim it may trigger type 2 diabetes. I posted some of the research here. Niacin/Niacinamide's Effect On Blood Sugar?
I know a lot of people including myself are dealing with increases in blood sugar when peating at first so I am a little scared to adding niacinamide to the mix until I get my blood sugar back down.

How are you currently testing and measuring your blood sugar levels?With a device or just a self judgement?

I have been taking high doses of niacinimide to aid digestion, 2-3g daily, and notice that it makes me feel drowsy and listless, like i dont care much about anything.

 

[Queequeg]

@sladerunner69 I haven't got that far and am still only reading the studies and hoping for some input from others. My understanding is that niacinamide generally raises insulin which can then drop your glucose levels quite rapidly. That is why I think RP and others above say to always take it with food or sugar.
My main concern is that over time it has been claimed to reduce insulin sensitivity and this may lead to Type 2 diabetes.
Right now I am taking aspirin to reduce my PUFAs while looking at the niacinamide issue.

 

[Queequeg]

[ moderator edit: post moved from https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/niacinamide-experience.13186/ ]

@sladerunner69 You may want to check out this study which shows the dramatic rise in insulin and subsequent drop in glucose. Some of the subjects ended up with hypoglycemic symptoms. Maybe that is what you were feeling.

Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

"The effect of niacin on glucose metabolism is visible in this experiment. Subjects were given an oral glucose tolerance test of 75 g glucose with or without 300 mg nicotinamide. [1, figure source]



Dark circles are from the OGTT with niacinamide, open circles without. Plasma hydrogen peroxide levels, a marker of oxidative stress, and insulin levels were higher in the niacinamide group. Serum glucose was initially slightly higher in the niacinamide group, but by 3 hr had dropped significantly, to the point of hypoglycemia in two subjects:

Two of the five subjects in NM-OGTT had reactive hypoglycemia symptoms (i.e. sweating, dizziness, faintness, palpitation and intense hunger) with blood glucose levels below 3.6 mmol/L [64 mg/dl]. In contrast, no subjects had reactive hypoglycemic symptoms during C-OGTT. [1]

 

[Queequeg]

@Mittir Interesting analysis. Taking niacinamide with food is definitely crucial due to the insulin spike. What are your thoughts on niacinamide reducing insulin sensitivity over time and maybe even triggering type 2 diabetes. I am always skeptical about potential hit jobs on natural supplements but this one scares me a little.

It inhibits lipolysis, so cells that are energetically low may be incapable of metabolizing blood glucose easily, and that may account for raising blood sugars in the short term.

Could be. The study below shows Niacinamide raising glucose higher than the control before crashing quickly after due to the insulin spike. (see below)

 

[Queequeg]

Anyone have any thoughts on the insulin spike in the above graph or the rise in H2O2 ("marker of oxidative stress"). Maybe @Mittir or @haidut could comment particularly on whether long term niacinamide use could cause insulin resistance.

 

[sladerunner69]

@sladerunner69 You may want to check out this study which shows the dramatic rise in insulin and subsequent drop in glucose. Some of the subjects ended up with hypoglycemic symptoms. Maybe that is what you were feeling.

Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

"The effect of niacin on glucose metabolism is visible in this experiment. Subjects were given an oral glucose tolerance test of 75 g glucose with or without 300 mg nicotinamide. [1, figure source]



Dark circles are from the OGTT with niacinamide, open circles without. Plasma hydrogen peroxide levels, a marker of oxidative stress, and insulin levels were higher in the niacinamide group. Serum glucose was initially slightly higher in the niacinamide group, but by 3 hr had dropped significantly, to the point of hypoglycemia in two subjects:

Two of the five subjects in NM-OGTT had reactive hypoglycemia symptoms (i.e. sweating, dizziness, faintness, palpitation and intense hunger) with blood glucose levels below 3.6 mmol/L [64 mg/dl]. In contrast, no subjects had reactive hypoglycemic symptoms during C-OGTT. [1]

That is interesting. I realize that niacinimide increases glucose metabolism. I am generally hungry at all times now, so it is interesting you bring that up. I was attributing it mainly to androsterone and 11-keto dht but niacinmide is probably also at play here. Sometimes I flat out stuff myself yet still feel hungry, it is rather strange. I have already decided to stop taking the high dose niacinimide before bed because it was making me feel uncomfortable. I am going to stop it for a while and then maybe try using it at a much lower dose like 50mg a few times a day.

 

[paymanz]

I have only seen niacin causing diabetes studies,and that due to insulin resistant caused by free fatty avid rebound effect.and niacinamide don't have that rebound.

 

[Fearlessgolfer]

There are several post about people taking huge dose ( 1 to 3 grams) of Niacinamide
without any blood sugar problem. There are many post where people felt
terrible taking small dose of niacinamid. RP recommends taking niacinaimide
with food. Some people found out that they need to eat a lot more when they
are lowering free fatty acids by taking niacinamide. If liver glycogen storage
is low, body will raise cortisol to supply sugar by breaking down muscle.
Cortisol also increases blood sugar by decreasing use of sugar.

I started with 50 mg of niacinamide and i ate frequently
to maintain steady blood sugar. I raised doses slowly and
eventually settled on 100 mg 2-3 times a day. Since PUFA
damages liver and restricting PUFA with niacinamide
should improve liver function. I was able to eat less
frequently after few months of taking Niacinamide.
Blood sugar response to Niacinamide would vary
depending on one's over all health, especially liver function.

@Mittir what was your main reason for supplementing with niacinamide? Was it to expedite PUFA deleting and improve liver function?

 

[sladerunner69]

Anyone have any thoughts on the insulin spike in the above graph or the rise in H2O2 ("marker of oxidative stress"). Maybe @Mittir or @haidut could comment particularly on whether long term niacinamide use could cause insulin resistance.

What they used in those studies was niacin, not niacinimide. Apparently niacin, unlike niacinimide, causes free fatty acid release and this would be the culprit for insulin resistance.

 

[Queequeg]

What they used in those studies was niacin, not niacinimide. Apparently niacin, unlike niacinimide, causes free fatty acid release and this would be the culprit for insulin resistance.

@sladerunner69 unfortunately that isn't the case. What I've found is that researchers often use the name "Niacin" as a generic term that could refer to either Nicotinic acid (aka Niacin proper) or Niacinamide (aka nicotinamide). The studies I cited that suggest niacinamide causes insulin sensitivity and/or diabetes for the most part all used niacinamide in the trials though sometimes called it Niacin.

Here is an example: "The effect of niacin on glucose metabolism is visible in this experiment. Subjects were given an oral glucose tolerance test of 75 g glucose with or without 300 mg nicotinamide" Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

After looking at the issue some more, it seems that niacinamide does in deed lower glucose levels but does so by increasing insulin and can negatively impact glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. Some studies claim that this can trigger type 2 diabetes.

Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet
Niacin, Oxidative Stress, and Glucose Regulation
The Chinese researchers note that niacin affects both appetite and glucose metabolism:
[N]iacin is a potent stimulator of appetite and niacin deficiency may lead to appetite loss [10]. Moreover, large doses of niacin have long been known to impair glucose tolerance [23,24], induce insulin resistance and enhance insulin release [25,26].

Is nicotinamide overload a trigger for type 2 diabetes? https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091222105449.htm

Linus Pauling Institute Niacin
An analysis of 10 published trials (5 placebo-controlled) found evidence of improved β-cell function after one year of treatment with nicotinamide, but the analysis failed to find any clinical evidence of improved glycemic (blood glucose) control (48). However, high doses of nicotinamide could decrease insulin sensitivity in high-risk relatives of IDDM patients (49), which might explain the finding of improved β-cell function without concomitant improvement in glycemic control.
48 The Deutsche Nicotinamide Intervention Study: an attempt to prevent type 1 diabetes. DENIS Group. - PubMed - NCBI
49 Nicotinamide's effects on glucose metabolism in subjects at risk for IDDM. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Orion]

@sladerunner69 unfortunately that isn't the case. What I've found is that researchers often use the name "Niacin" as a generic term that could refer to either Nicotinic acid (aka Niacin proper) or Niacinamide (aka nicotinamide). The studies I cited that suggest niacinamide causes insulin sensitivity and/or diabetes for the most part all used niacinamide in the trials though sometimes called it Niacin.

Here is an example: "The effect of niacin on glucose metabolism is visible in this experiment. Subjects were given an oral glucose tolerance test of 75 g glucose with or without 300 mg nicotinamide" Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

Test subjects with perfect liver glycogen storage will react differently than a person who is PUFA saturated hypo-everything and cannot go 2hrs without eating.

 

[Giraffe]

@Queequeg , I have moved one of your posts to this thread. Please don't start the same discussion in different threads.

The studies I cited that suggest niacinamide causes insulin sensitivity and/or diabetes for the most part all used niacinamide in the trials though sometimes called it Niacin.

Here is an example: "The effect of niacin on glucose metabolism is visible in this experiment. Subjects were given an oral glucose tolerance test of 75 g glucose with or without 300 mg nicotinamide" Are Low Doses of Niacin Dangerous? - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

It would be better to read the actual study (link) and quote from the study. As far as I can see, the researchers did not use the terms interchangeably.

 

[Mittir]

I remember someone posted a similar Chinese study that found Niacinamide
increasing serotonin when given after over night fasting.
That was obviously a stress response. In other studies they did not find
niacinamide increasing serotonin. It shows that Niacinamide acts differently
when given in a fasting state than with adequate nutrients.

The study is very strange. They got the definition of insulin resistance wrong.
In insulin resistance blood sugar is high with high insulin level. This study
clearly shows higher insulin lowered blood glucose level significantly
more than control. So, insulin was doing it's job. It is simply a higher
insulin response in niacinamide group. It is more like eating just sugar
vs sugar with fat. Fat would cause a much slower rise in blood sugar and
lower level of insulin release. Niacinamide quickly increases NAD concentration,
(which increases energy production ) and lowers free fatty acids in blood, which
increases sugar's metabolism but also decreases energy supply. After over night
fasting one is already in low energy state with depleted liver glycogen.
Lowering one of the energy source fat and increasing energy production
can lead to low blood sugar and stress response. Higher hydrogen peroxide
is probably a result of high insulin and or extra energy production.
They should have measured serum FFA, Co2, lactic acid and some
measurement of energy production. Diabetes is all about energy production.

RP mentioned that NAD decreases with age and causes diabetes and ageing
He cited study that showed increasing NAD as anti-ageing strategy.
There are studies that showed increased NAD reversing diabetes in mice.
A long term or at least few weeks study measuring all the major
indicator of metabolism would be more informative than this kind
of one dose study.